Gideon MacLeish Gideon MacLeish

Alcoholics Anonymous and the Cult of Victimhood

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Alcoholics Anonymous and the Cult of Victimhood

from JoeUser Forums

Some time ago, LW blogged about AA as a "faith healing" organization. I wanted to link to that article as inspiration, but I couldn't find the link (if you find it, feel welcome to link it here).

I believe AA has done far worse than that. I believe that AA is one of the agents that has brought about our culture of "victimhood"; a culture that is slowly destroying us as a country.

I lived most of the first 33 years of my life as a victim. My actions were always the fault of a bad upbringing, of physical and/or mental limitations, of the people around me. I had grown up in an AA minded culture, and the fact that I was "powerless" over these things and dependent upon a higher power to "rescue" me was a central component of my thinking. This was driven home in the various churches I attended at the time; all I needed was enough "faith" and no action on my part, and redemption was mine.

I remember the moment my awakening came like it was yesterday. I was on the phone with my father, listening to the same verbal abuse, the same belittling and condescending attitude he had used on me from the cradle. It occured to me suddenly that I didn't HAVE to take this, that by simply hanging up the phone I could be rid of that particular influence forever. I hung up the phone, wrote a letter that never got sent, had a good cry and haven't looked back since. Sometimes I miss my father, but I don't miss the chains that relationship entails.

A look around us shows how widespread the cult of victimhood has become. Murderers are no longer murderers, they are "victims of a racist upbringing"; terrorists are no longer terrorists, they are "sincere but misguided victims of manipulative leaders"; robbers and thieves are victims of capitalism. And it all stems from the  same philosophy that drives organizations such as AA.

It took me 33 years to realize I was only a victim if I allowed myself to be. That I and I alone am responsible for my success or failure in this life, and that if I don't like my circumstances, I have the power to change it. To realize that it wasn't years of abuse but rather my own self indulgence that caused me to eat those extra few thousand calories. To realize that I only have a right to the PURSUIT of happiness; that the actual possession of such is my own responsibility. Hopefully one day a few more folks will realize those same facts.

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16,631 views 38 replies
Reply #26 from JoeUser Forums Top
Get a better perspective: go to a meeting.


Greg,

First, and foremost: I am glad AA worked for you. It's good that you turned your life around.

As for going to a meeting, I believe the most outspoken against the "cult of victimhood" as I call it on this thread are dharma, LW and myself. As we all clearly stated, we've all been through the 12 step process. So we DO have the needed perspective to address the issue.
Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top
I really don't like coming off like such a crab, but see this from another perspective. AA is an option that works for some people. We seem to have three people here who overcame their problem or at least control it. There are people who simply will not do that. There are people who will victimize their famlies and kill themselves through alcoholism.

If there were something better, I could see critiquing AA as an option in favor of something better. I've spent too much time with people who abused their families and died way too early to poo-poo ANY option until there is something else.

Again, I grew up in places where I saw people who weren't above drinking rubbing alcohol and spraying hair spray into a paper cup. I saw how their kids ended up when sober people right next door had kids who grew up to live vastly different lives.

Frankly, any option is worth devoting resources to, in my opinion.
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Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have a totally different perspective on AA AND na I have seen and met many people that have stayed sober for many years through the steps. Some do, some don't
Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top
LW: You think that people with a 5% chance of recovery are denied the drugs they take? People are often offered chemo with worse odds than that. The drug I am supposed to be taking has a 20-30% track record.

When I looked at the doctor and ask him why I should tolerate having my hair fall out, he said he figured any chance was better than KNOWING my guts were going to rot inside me and dying a hideous death. So yeah, there's a lot of drugs out there with a percentage tagged to them.

As I said, I've seen people who'd drink rubbing alcohol if that is all they could get. I promise you, I'm not lying, and it isn't a debate tactic. I knew them, I knew their kids. You think 5% is too little for people like that who are going to kill themselves anyway?

P.S. and just to be a TAD snide... does anyone else notice that the three people talking about how bad AA is have beaten or controlled their addiction? Is it beyond the slightest chance that AA had something to do with that, even the smallest bit?

Could it be slightly possible that you took something away from AA that helped you, even if you didn't agree with ALL of it?
Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top

P.S. and just to be a TAD snide... does anyone else notice that the three people talking about how bad AA is have beaten or controlled their addiction? Is it beyond the slightest chance that AA had something to do with that, even the smallest bit?

Could it be slightly possible that you took something away from AA that helped you, even if you didn't agree with ALL of it?

In my case, baker...NO. In fact, I had to deprogram myself from the AA way of thinking. I stupidly pursued toxic relationships for many years believing that I had to make some sort of "amends". It was when I realized that I owed those individuals NOTHING that I began to be able to deal with my addiction.

The central theme of AA is, to put it simply: I am a victim. That's why I oppose it. I refuse to be a victim and I believe that I need to hold MYSELF accountable for my actions, not some disease, or higher power.

Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top
There's a difference between "victim" and "flawed" isn't there, Gid? My illness is a flaw, but I am not a victim.

From my understanding of AA, once you tried to make amends, and found you couldn't, THEN you had done all you could, and then you owed them nothing more. I don't think there is anything in the AA creed that states you have to devote yourself for years when your overtures have been rejected, is there?

Could it possibly be that your interpretation of AA was the problem? For instance. Some people believe that if they become Christians that they have to become Amish people, and if someone wants to beat the hell out of them they have to stand there and let them.

Is that a flaw of Christianity, or their interpretation of it? You are told to try and make amends with the people you've harmed. Does that mean you devote yourself to it to your own destuction? I've never heard anyone that I know who went into AA portraying it that way. They did their best, and the people who weren't receptive they moved on from.
Reply #32 from JoeUser Forums Top
LW: Do you really think I have access in the scope of this conversation to those kind of drug statistics? Do you think that I would spend the time if I did? People are offered chemo with a 5% chance all the time and you know it. I watched my neighbor suffer for two years with alzheimers before he finally died taking drugs that his doctor stated openly didn't have a chance in hell of helping him.

Feel free to declare yourself the "winner" if you like, but 5% is always better than 0% if you give a damn about the people in question. Obviously, you feel the pittance we pay is worth more. I don't, and neither I hope do most people.

We've already seen a couple of people post who were helped by AA. I'm sure they appreciate it, even if you don't.
Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top

There's a difference between "victim" and "flawed" isn't there, Gid? My illness is a flaw, but I am not a victim.

Yes, there's a difference between being a "victim" and "flawed". An AA's case, though, I stand by my belief that they are a cult of victimhood. Because, as LW points out, they teach that you can NEVER beat the addiction; that you are POWERLESS. That's not a flaw, that's victimhood. And, frankly, it's contrary to what is taught in the Bible...but that's another topic entirely.

As for the making amends thing: Yes, it is possible that every sponsor from the ten plus years I sincerely tried to find a group to "work the program" was wrong and that AA, OA and other such support groups operate on a hypothetical ideal that is somehow not taught to their members, but that would seem highly unlikely.

Reply #34 from JoeUser Forums Top
The thing is, LW, I don't think that of you. I don't think you, or Gid, or dharma would deny ANY resource to someone you cared about if that was all they could get.

I think it is a philosophical difference, but one that broadcasts a perspective to the world that endangers one of those resources. People can't drive 100 miles to some yuppie clinic usually. So when you say you don't want that to be a manditory option, you remove any option, frankly, other than just tossing them in prison. From what I understand, that doesn't do much for addiction, either.
Reply #35 from JoeUser Forums Top
Is it beyond the slightest chance that AA had something to do with that, even the smallest bit?


The only time I went to meetings was when I HA to as part of my inpatient stay. As soon as I was released I said that I was never going to another meeting again - and I haven't. I COULDN'T work the steps (and I can't even recall what they are now without looking them up) because the first step is to admit you are powerless over your addiction and that you have to trust in your higher power....I didn't have one at the time, so I couldn't 'let go and let god'. All rehab did for me was remove me from the situation where I was tempted to use and help me get over the detox stage.
It's sheer bloody mindedness and obstinance that have got me thus far. I have a drink now and then, and obviously I have to be on pain meds or else I'd want to shoot myself, but I have the power. Not the alcohol, and not the meds, ME.

Did AA help me? Not in the way you might think. I was tired of being told again and again and again that AA was THE ONLY WAY and that if I did't work the program I'd fail, so I made up my mind to show those AA bastids that it WASN'T the ONLY way and that I COULD and WOULD make it on my own.

And I did. So did Sabrina. So did James Frey.

Oh, and Baker...I was in rehab with a man who drank after shave.
Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top
There were alot of interesting articles here. I have been to AA and don't think they are of much value treating you like an idiot and to stupid to handle your problem without them. I was told to go there by the court because of a DUI. Most of the people there are forced to be there. The rest were some kind of fanatics. I see little value of humiliating myself in front of these people. I know my problems and feel I know what I need to do. Overall I think AA is a farce but the legal system likes to use them as a way to justify all the other costs you have to go thru since AA is free. Bet the top level AA people are making great money but have not found out much info about them yet.
Reply #37 from JoeUser Forums Top

Dennis,

I don't think it's a money thing, really, I don't. I truly believe Bill W. found his own personal path to sobriety, and, frankly, I admire him for it. I also believe there are others who have benefitted from AA, and, again, I admire them for it. But the majority of the individuals I have personally encountered are mired in a cult of victimhood. In short, they need to be saved from the very entity that "saved" them from their addiction.

Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hey Don't have a beef with AA. Your right, you can be sober and clean without meetings and especially the 12 steps. If you can have a happy and fruitful life without going nuts then that's great. All the best. John.