The Genesis Account

isn't that whole "list with each point starting with the same letter" a Baptist thing?
Genesis is also pretty much the only book any of my friends know exists, so they try and disprove it because it's the only one they kind of know the story of. that and Jesus' birth and death, but nothing in between of after. half the time my teachers have to ask me if what they're saying is accurate when it comes the holidays and they mention Jesus' birth.

Nice summary in 10. Have a great weekend all!

Adventure Dude

Very good way of looking at it!

isn't that whole "list with each point starting with the same letter" a Baptist thing?

Could be.....but I thought it was words that begin with the same letter....like responsiblity, response, respect, reject or ....to attain, to achieve, or to atone........reminds me of Adrian Rogers of Love Worth Finding. He does that all the time.

Pretty good summary list KFC. I've often wondered why people expect the Old Testament to be so many things that it never claims to be.

There is nothing exhaustive about the account, yet people treat it as if "if something isn't mentioned in Genesis, it couldn't have happened".

After the creation of the earth, there is nothing in it that speaks to what was going on outside the Garden of Eden. We know the Garden of Eden didn't take up the whole earth because it was placed, "Eastward, in Eden".

No mention is ever made about how long Adam & Eve was in the Garden before they were cast out. For that matter, no mention is made of how long Adam was given a body before Eve.

In the Garden of Eden, there were two trees mentioned specifically (The Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil). We know that Adam & Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden because they ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, but did they ever eat any of the fruit of the Tree of Life? Were they ever told not to? Was there any mention of the purpose of the Tree of Life? I know I've read many explanations from scholars who say different things about the trees, but none of them are backed by Genesis.

Were Cain and Abel the first born of Adam and Eve? Or were they merely the first mentioned by name? When Cain was cursed by God, he told God he was scared of how all the people would treat him. He was even cast out to another land "Nod", where there were many people.

I don't expect you to answer all these, but they are examples of how Genesis isn't a complete record and never claimed to be. So it stands to reason that it should neither be held to that standard, nor scoffed at because it isn't.

You are so right ParaTed. It's not an exhaustive account at all but only what God wanted us to know. Genesis is the foundation for the rest of scripture but is not exhaustive at all.

it's where we are first introduced to God, to the trinity, to man, to marriage, to sin, to hardwork, to sorrow. tears, and eventually death. It gives us hope as well with the promise of a Savior.

Great questions you had and I agree with your assertions.

In the Garden of Eden, there were two trees mentioned specifically (The Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil). We know that Adam & Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden because they ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, but did they ever eat any of the fruit of the Tree of Life? Were they ever told not to? Was there any mention of the purpose of the Tree of Life? I know I've read many explanations from scholars who say different things about the trees, but none of them are backed by Genesis.

Here I would say most likely they did eat of the tree of life because they were only told not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge. Notice it was in the center of the garden....most likely very observed by Adam and Eve. I'm thinking maybe his eating of this tree was sustaining their life. And the fact that God kicked him out was really a picture of grace. To live forever with sin is not a nice way to live.

Notice in Rev 22 the tree shows up again in heaven. It says:

"In the midst of the street of it (heaven) and on either side of the River was there the tree of life which bare 12 manner of fruits and yielded her fruit every month and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations" Rev 22:2"Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter into the gates of the city." Rev 22:14.

This here also makes me believe they ate of the tree of life in the garden. After they sinned, they had no right to this tree again. Quite often the answers to most questions are found elsewhere in scripture or we get a bit more of the picture. It's just like God to say....they're in there....go and search for them. But again there is some things we'll never know this side of eternity.

Did you know the Garden of Eden was somewhere in Iraq? Most likely Bagdad? The clues are in there. Pretty interesting stuff!!

Did you know the Garden of Eden was somewhere in Iraq? Most likely Bagdad? The clues are in there. Pretty interesting stuff!!

I have heard this, but the clues are all assuming that the pre flood landscape was the same as it is today.

6. Genesis Affirms that God Made Man and Woman in His Likeness Why on earth would he wantto do that!
Anyway, I say, good for you and to each his own. Merry Christmas.

Was there any mention of the purpose of the Tree of Life?

I'mnot sure that it was fruit-bearing; probably a sturdy oak to symbolize the strength and growth of life.

6. Genesis Affirms that God Made Man and Woman in His Likeness Why on earth would he wantto do that!

The Genesis account is very interesting. Where I grew up they had a mind set that man was made first and than woman thus making them inferior but after rereading it this is not true. The seperating of male and female we see a terrible picture of what sin did to us by seperating us from G-D. But also we see the beautiful picture of marriage as being Jesus' bride for marriage. For sin seperated us from Jesus (just as male and female were seperated) but through marriage (in the physical) we find that two become one which helps us to better understand Our marriage to Jesus the Husband of his people. After looking at it from this perspective women and men have the same importance. They can survive being single but when they come together the two becoming one is much more than mere survival it's living. When we join together with Jesus in our marriage we no longer try to survive, we live. I recently looked up the definition of peace. And I can sum the definition up in two words. Harmonious relationship. When we are at peace with our spouse we are in harmonious relationship and in 'tune' with each other. The same goes with our relationship with G-D. When we are in harmony with G-D there is a symbiotic relationship where we no longer can imagine how we lived without him. Thus giving us the Ultimate peace! Can I get a AMAIN?

Adventure Dude

In the Garden of Eden, there were two trees mentioned specifically (The Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil). We know that Adam & Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden because they ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, but did they ever eat any of the fruit of the Tree of Life? Were they ever told not to? Was there any mention of the purpose of the Tree of Life?

There’s a good clue to this in Revelations 2.7 : “He who has an ear, let him hear. . . . To everyone who conquers, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God."

It seems that we need to “conquer” something before we can taste the fruits from the tree of life. But what do we have to conquer? Furthermore, what is the “Paradise of God?” I think we can put the pieces together like a jigsaw puzzle and work out the meaning of these verses.

Here are the jigsaw pieces that I can see, and I’ll describe the picture that I see at the end.

The first piece is the revelation that human beings were created at the outset in Paradise – the Garden of Eden.

Secondly, whilst living in Paradise, Adam and Eve were warned that if they ate the fruit which grew on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they would surely taste death. After eating the forbidden fruit, Adam and Eve were driven out of Paradise in order to experience “death” and taste the fruits of evil and pain. (In Paradise, by definition, it is only possible to taste the fruits of “good”. Adam and Eve had to be driven out of Paradise in order to taste the fruits of “good” and “evil”.)

Thirdly, the consequence of Adam and Eve’s choice was passed down to the whole human race, and we are now born into a place where hardship and suffering are commonplace.

Fourthly, the tree of life was guarded by God after He drove Adam and Even out of Eden (Genesis 3.24).

(Fifthly, and incidentally, the redemption of our choice was paid, at great cost, by God Himself, who shared our suffering and carried our sins upon His own shoulders - hence the cross. God’s remedy, and forgiveness, as well as His divine nature, was expressed on earth in the life of Jesus of Nazareth.)

Sixthly, in Luke 23.43, Jesus says to the criminal hanging beside him on the cross, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise”.

In this latter verse, Jesus refers to Heaven as “Paradise.”

Putting these pieces together and following the story logically, (including the reference to the tree of life in Revelations), my conclusion is that the Bible is trying to tell us that we were created at the outset in Paradise, the Heavenly dimension.

KFC, in previous blogs you’ve mentioned the principle that in order to disclose the full meaning of something, we need to consider the full picture. You rightly said that if we only take a snippet from a story and view it through a narrow scope, then the story’s full message can elude us. In your words, (referring to the Bible):

to get the whole picture the OT is very helpful. It's sort of like watching a movie, you have the beginning (OT) the middle (Gospels & Epistles) and the ending (REVELATION). Many people come to Christ not knowing the OT. When they find out what's in there it brings them into a much deeper understanding of the whole movie.

Now I take this same principle to a larger scale. I believe that many people come to God without knowing the full picture. The “full picture”, in this context, includes other religious revelations. (It’s no secret that the religious tradition which people feel inclined to follow depends on where they were born. If we had been born into a different culture in a different part of the world, then those of us who are religiously minded would now be accepting another religious revelation as “true”. In my view, all our religions are right. They simply disclose different parts of a global revelation.)

The Qur’an, for example, states that Adam and Eve were created at the outset in Heaven, and that they were driven to earth after eating the forbidden fruit. (Surah 2.35-38). Islam is our latest world religion in the evolutionary line, and as evolution denotes growth, we can expect some fruitful insights to be contained in it. I believe that our world faiths are really allies, which together expand human understanding beyond the scope of an individual faith system alone.

The Qur’an’s portrayal of Adam and Eve doesn’t contradict the Bible. It merely paints a ‘fuller picture’. On the same token, Christianity discloses many parts of the story that are not included in the Qur’an.

Further, this interpretation of the story of Adam and Eve allows us to retain a traditional literal interpretation, whilst adhering to the theory of evolution. (The Genesis story of the Garden of Eden describes life in another dimension, whilst the theory of evolution describes life in this physical realm.)

So to conclude, I believe that in order to eat the fruit from the tree of life, we need first to conquer and overcome the challenges and trials of this earthly life. When we die and arrive back in Paradise, we’ll be able to fully taste and appreciate the fruits of “good”.

Thirdly, the consequence of Adam and Eve’s choice was passed down to the whole human race, and we are now born into a place where hardship and suffering are commonplace.

ya, bummer!!!

In this latter verse, Jesus refers to Heaven as “Paradise.”

Yes, this word is only used three times in the NT and you used two of them being Luke 23 and Rev 2. The word suggests a garden but in the NT it's referred to Heaven. But there will be a new heaven and a new earth coming down so I'm not too sure how this all fits together.

The Qur’an’s portrayal of Adam and Eve doesn’t contradict the Bible. It merely paints a ‘fuller picture’. On the same token, Christianity discloses many parts of the story that are not included in the Qur’an.

I wouldn't put the Qur'an on the same plane as God's holy scripture. This would be the "extra" writings God warned us about in Revelation. He said not to go there. Jesus also warned along with the NT writers that there would be "other" Christs and such and not to be fooled. There are many Muslims that have converted to Christianlty from Islam and they will tell you the problems with the Qur'an and also that Allah is not the same as Jehovah. It's a trick. I'm trying to get my hands on a book now written by a man named Canner who was a former Muslim. Do you know him? He's a professor at Liberty University and I guess his family has disowned him. But he's got quite the story to tell. When I get the book....maybe I'll do a book review.........right here on JU. That should go over like a ton of bricks.

Are you Muslim Andy?

So to conclude, I believe that in order to eat the fruit from the tree of life, we need first to conquer and overcome the challenges and trials of this earthly life

Well I think Christ did the conquering.....we just need to follow him. And accept that he did it for us. After all he's considered the Conquerer....we are too but only in Him.

When we die and arrive back in Paradise, we’ll be able to fully taste and appreciate the fruits of “good”.

I can't wait!!!! After living here......it's worth waiting for. No eye has seen or ear heard what God has in store for us.

Now I take this same principle to a larger scale. I believe that many people come to God without knowing the full picture. The “full picture”, in this context, includes other religious revelations. (It’s no secret that the religious tradition which people feel inclined to follow depends on where they were born. If we had been born into a different culture in a different part of the world, then those of us who are religiously minded would now be accepting another religious revelation as “true”. In my view, all our religions are right. They simply disclose different parts of a global revelation.)

If you mean that there are Muslims walking around now (or Hindus or whatever) that will be "saved" I can go along with that. They may not even know it yet. But it's not because they are religious or a "good" Muslim. It's because they have not had an encounter with Jesus. He's the one holding the keys. There's no getting around him to gain entrance into heaven. He's standing at the gate to let us in. When they have that encounter with Jesus (no matter religious affiliation) then and only then will they be justified.

It's not about religion.....it's about relationship.

But if you're saying they can still gain entrance by believing in Allah or some other god....I can't buy that. What you are saying then is that there are "other ways" to get into heaven beside Jesus. Jesus said he was the "only" way. Jesus is exclusive and inclusive at the same time. He's exclusive to those that don't come to him and inclusive to all those that do. "Come to me all you that are weary....and I will give you rest." Notice the word...."all." But there is a condition. You have to come "to him."

Thanks Andy for your thoughts. I always enjoy talking to you!!! You and Adventure Dude keep me on my toes....fer sure.......

isn't that whole "list with each point starting with the same letter" a Baptist thing?

No, because your mother likes to do it too... *laughs* I think in this case it's more of an RBC thing.

Good list, D. The last two are my favorites. Reclaimed. Restored. Redeemed. That's love.

I always enjoy talking to you!!! You and Adventure Dude keep me on my toes....fer sure.

Yes, I enjoy chatting with you too. Being kept on our toes, or getting nudged out of our comfort zones, can be good for spiritual growth and expansion. That isn’t a negative thing.

Are you Muslim Andy?

No, I’m a Christian.

What you are saying then is that there are "other ways" to get into heaven beside Jesus.

No. Jesus is the way, the only door and keeper. As I’ve said on other threads, I believe that other religions are in touch with Christ, only from a different perspective and cultural context, whether they recognise Him as Jesus or not. I personally believe that Christianity reveals more light of Truth than any other religion. But I also believe that other religions reveal glimpses of the same light, (i.e. “the true light that gives light to every man” John 1.9). When the underlying revelations of our world’s religions are merged, we can get a broader scope of the full picture - of which Christ is supreme head.

I wouldn't put the Qur'an on the same plane as God's holy scripture

But if you had been born into a different household, then the Qur’an would be God’s holy scripture, from your point of view. I was having a chat with a friend from work just the other day. He’s a devout Muslim, a sound bloke, who usually keeps his beliefs to himself. But I was interested to hear his views. I asked him how he thinks other religions fit in with his own religious views. He replied, “Islam is the true religion. Muslims will go to Heaven when they die.” I replied, “Fair enough. That’s a common point of view.”

Ten minutes later, he sent me an email, and in it he quoted the Qur’an. It read, “The unbelievers shall endure forever the torment of Hell.” (Surah 43:74). “A bed of fire has been prepared for the unbelievers.” (Surah 22:19-22:23)

I thought, “Fair enough. Each to their own.” We got chatting about it later, and after he had expressed his beliefs, I said that it really depends on where we’re born, which religion we choose to follow. God loves all His children regardless of culture.

He replied, “But it’s God’s will, not mine. Islam is the true religion.”

I smiled, and realised that this is exactly how fundamentalist Christians perceive Christianity. He was coming from the same wavelength that other fundamentalist religionists come from - regardless of religion. Our own religion is “right”, whilst other religions are “wrong”. I personally adhere to Indian spiritual leader Sri Chinmoy's comment: “Each religion is right, absolutely right, in its own way, but when we cry for the highest truth, the love of God becomes the only religion.”

There are many Muslims that have converted to Christianlty from Islam and they will tell you the problems with the Qur'an

KFC, it might be worth checking out some books written by former Christians who write about their former problems with Christianity. See, for example, ‘Losing Faith in Faith’ by Dan Barker, ‘Why I am not a Christian’ by Bertrand Russell, ‘The Age of Reason’ by Thomas Paine, ‘The Case Against Christianity’ by Michael Martin, ‘All in the Mind: A Farewell to God’, by Ludovic Kennedy.

These aren’t books that have been inspired by Satan, (at least not in my opinion). They are books that have written by people who are honest with themselves. Yet such people have not yet acquired enough maturity or growth of spirit to rise above the fledgling ‘wavelength’ of religious fundamentalism. Incidentally, I don't think there's anything wrong with religious fundamentalism. I just think that it will mature and deepen as humanity evolves, i.e. grows up.

I can't wait!!!! After living here......it's worth waiting for. No eye has seen or ear heard what God has in store for us.

Me too KFC. It’s horrible down here. But life in Heaven is something wonderful, for sure.

Well I think Christ did the conquering.....we just need to follow him. And accept that he did it for us. After all he's considered the Conquerer....we are too but only in Him.

Yes, I agree. As Jesus said, “In the world you will have tribulation. But be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.” Christ has already conquered the ultimate obstacles (death and evil). Yet we still have our own personal trials and tribulations to conquer throughout daily life. The good news is that we aren’t alone. Jesus is with us always, and He will support us, guide us and light our way – if we will but trust Him and let Him lead.

But there will be a new heaven and a new earth coming down so I'm not too sure how this all fits together.

We’re still only glimpsing parts of the big picture though, KFC. Rest assured all the pieces will fit together at the end of the day. (We'll certainly get a better perspective beyond the veil of death, where things will make fantastic sense.) In the meantime, I think the following words from Isaac Newton, although spoken from within a scientific context, can also be applied to our understanding of religious revelations, which aim to shed light on God’s epic and all-wise plan: "To myself I am only a child playing on the beach, while vast oceans of truth lie undiscovered before me."

Yet we still have our own personal trials and tribulations to conquer throughout daily life. The good news is that we aren’t alone. Jesus is with us always, and He will support us, guide us and light our way – if we will but trust Him and let Him lead.

Very nicely said.....I couldn't agree more.

We’re still only glimpsing parts of the big picture though

yes, God gave us what he wanted us to know for now. Looking back at the past I can see that God sheds more and more light as time goes by. It's like he gives us a bit more to go on. Going back to the 1500-1700's when I read Luther, Calvin and Henry etc I can see they could only bring us so far and more things had to be discovered before more unlocking could be done.

(quote]To myself I am only a child playing on the beach, while vast oceans of truth lie undiscovered before me."

I love this!!!! Thanks for that. So true..

He replied, “But it’s God’s will, not mine. Islam is the true religion.”

See, there is no true religion!! They all think they have a corner on the truth. It's not about us or what group we belong to. It's all about the one holding the keys. Jesus said....."Who do you say that I am?" That's the question of all time. What are we going to do with JESUS!!! He is the truth. So you go to these groups and find out what they say about HIM. That's the key.

The Mormons have their Book of Mormon, the Adventist have the writings of Ellen White, the JW's have their watchtower and their own bible (the New World Standard), the Muslims have their Qur"an, the Swedenborgs have their 37 (?) volumes of Swendenborg.....etc.

Who's right? They can't all be. It'd be like saying 1+1=1.....1+1=5.......1+1=6 etc. It can't all be true.

it might be worth checking out some books written by former Christians A true Christian never becomes a "former Christian." It means they called themselves Christian but in name only. If you are "born" a Christian (by the spirit) you cannot become unborn. Once born always born. The physical is a picture of the spiritual. Just like we are born physically we also are born spiritually. Once born you cannot go back and be unborn any more than you can go back into your mother's womb. Tho "The Age of Reason" sounds interesting to me. Merry CHRIST-MAS ANDY!!!!

Hi KFC, Happy Christmas to you, and to everyone at JU too!!! Hope you've had a good one so far,

A true Christian never becomes a "former Christian." It means they called themselves Christian but in name only. If you are "born" a Christian (by the spirit) you cannot become unborn. Once born always born. The physical is a picture of the spiritual. Just like we are born physically we also are born spiritually. Once born you cannot go back and be unborn any more than you can go back into your mother's womb.

I completely agree with you. It struck me while reading those books that the authors hadn't found Jesus in the first place at all. Otherwise they wouldn't have expressed such misguided, spiritless views. However, I found many valid points in those books which highlighted the small-mindedness and irrationality of extreme fundamentalism. 'Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist', in particular. The most intellectually mature of the batch was ‘All in the Mind: A Farewell to God’, by Ludovic Kennedy. Although Kennedy appeared very mature intellectually, spiritually he was a mere youngster and didn't grasp the deeper principles of Christianity.

See, there is no true religion!! They all think they have a corner on the truth. It's not about us or what group we belong to. It's all about the one holding the keys. Jesus said....."Who do you say that I am?" That's the question of all time. What are we going to do with JESUS!!! He is the truth. So you go to these groups and find out what they say about HIM. That's the key.

I can see what you're saying. But Christianity is the only religion which claims that Jesus is divine. In this sense, the religion we choose to follow will determine our thoughts about Jesus. In turn, I believe that the religion we choose to follow primarily depends on where we were born. It's still the same principle, in my view.

The Mormons have their Book of Mormon, the Adventist have the writings of Ellen White, the JW's have their watchtower and their own bible (the New World Standard), the Muslims have their Qur"an, the Swedenborgs have their 37 (?) volumes of Swendenborg.....etc. Who's right? They can't all be. It'd be like saying 1+1=1.....1+1=5.......1+1=6 etc. It can't all be true.

The underlying messages can be right, and in this sense they can all be true. That's the part that I'm more interested in. (i.e. God exists; there's transcendent purpose to life; death is not the end; the fundamental dimension of reality is divine Spirit, etc. etc.) All our world religions express such truths, and there is deep common ground to be found. All our religions are in touch with the same God, is what I believe.

But Christianity is the only religion which claims that Jesus is divine. In this sense, the religion we choose to follow will determine our thoughts about Jesus. In turn, I believe that the religion we choose to follow primarily depends on where we were born. It's still the same principle, in my view.

Reminds me of Joshua who said..."Choose you this day whom you will serve (follow)...as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

There are many people who were born in various cults and non Christian religions that have found Jesus. So I don't think it matters how you start the game of life. It's how you end it that matters. Look at Abraham as an example. God called him out of false religion to follow him. And he became the father of many nations and the one God used to start the Hebrew family.

In scripture God pleads...."Come out of HER (false religion) and be separate."

So if Christianity is the only "religion" that says Jesus is God....then it goes to follow that Christianity is where we should be. Now having said that......just because a "group" calls themselves "Christian" doesn't necessarily say they are. There is alot of deception out there. Satan is a clever devil. He doesn't care if we're religious. He just doesn't want us in communication with God...via reading his word and praying and meditating. There are many religious people out there that Jesus is going to say..."I never knew you."

My goal is to hear the words...."Well done, good and faithful servant." A goal worth striving for....in my view.

KFC

"To myself I am only a child playing on the beach, while vast oceans of truth lie undiscovered before me."

Reminds me of something...

Saint Augustine was walking the seashore one day, pondering the majesty of God. He saw a small boy who had dug a hole in the sand. The boy kept rushing down to the ocean, scooping up water in a seashell, and then scrambling back to pour the water into the hole he had dug.

"What are you doing?" Augustine asked him.

"I'm going to pour the sea into that hole," the boy said.

Ah, Augustine thought. That is what I have been trying to do. Standing on the ocean of infinity, I have tried to grasp it with my finite mind.

We can only receive a glimpse of God in this life... but woe to those who have seen the truth, even a glimpse of it, and walk away unchanged. And shame on us if we don't share the truth with those who are perishing. There was something about the cross of Christ that made every witness either step toward it, or away from it. It simultaneously compelled and repelled. So it is today... to quote Max Lucado, "It's the watershed. It's the Continental Divide. It's Normandy. And you are either on one side or the other. A choice is demanded. We can do what we want with the cross. We can examine its history. We can study it's theology. We can reflect upon its prophecies. Yet the one thing we can't do is walk away in neutral." There is no fence sitting when it comes to the cross. The question is... on which side are you?