Kurt Vonnegut - Warped and loving it

I am certainly no literary expert, but I've never been that souped up on Vonnegut either. How can you have "respect" for these cowards? The Kamikaze of WWII I can understand since they were attacking well armed military targets, but these guys? I don't think so...

The Kamikaze of WWII I can understand since they were attacking well armed military targets,

I do have respect for the Kamikaze pilots, for the very reason you state.  Not for these bacteria tho.

Kurt has always been a loon, it why I like what he writes.....as for his personal opinions, well, in his own words,

So it goes................

So it goes................

Because I love SciFi, my "literature" teachers always shoved him down my throat (him and Ursela LeGuin).  I find his story ideas intriguing. But his writing just plain sucks.

Watching Paint dry is on par with reading him.

His books suck, too, frankly. I read constantly, double-majored in history/lit, and frankly I've read brochures that were more entertaining...

His books suck, too, frankly. I read constantly, double-majored in history/lit, and frankly I've read brochures that were more entertaining...

Agreed!  Just dont tell John Brunner!

When I was in school we had to read Slaughterhouse Five and Breakfast of Champions. I made it through both of them, but found both to be very boring reads. I told my teacher what I thought and was told it was because I lacked the brain to appreciate works of one of the greatest American authors of all-time.

I'm glad to see some people who's "brains" I do respect hold the same contempt for his writings.

Doc, to me Vonnegut reminds me of my grandfather, who as he got older would rail nonsense non-stop against everything and everyone.

'Kurt Vonnegut has decided that ... the Terrorists must be good people!' ... 'Vonnegut goes on to proclaim them heros: "I regard them as very brave people, yes."'

So who is it who's 'not smart enough to know the difference'?

There is a clear indicator here that you guys have trouble arguing against Vonnegut's politics - the only coherent response you appear able to agree upon is (gasp) 'his writing just plain sucks'. Somehow I think Vonnegut will survive this terrible onslaught, and I for one don't mind that a bit.

I told my teacher what I thought and was told it was because I lacked the brain to appreciate works of one of the greatest American authors of all-time.

No, you just wanted to read for pleasure as did I.  he has good ideas, but his writing style is like stale bread!

There is a clear indicator here that you guys have trouble arguing against Vonnegut's politics - the only coherent response you appear able to agree upon is (gasp) 'his writing just plain sucks'. Somehow I think Vonnegut will survive this terrible onslaught, and I for one don't mind that a bit.

Umm, perhaps you may want to read the article and not just the comments?

bad Furry!  i said I thought he was whacko.  The rest are just saying he is a hack writer.  SO far, we are all batting 1000.  Except the one that did not read the article perhaps?

'Umm, perhaps you may want to read the article and not just the comments?

In that instance, I was responding to the comments, and I made that clear. Is this no longer allowed?

Besides, I DID make a point about the article, which you appear to have overlooked. You state 'Kurt Vonnegut has decided that his hate for Bush is so great, that the Terrorists must be good people!' - yet nowhere do you actually quote him as saying either. He says nothing about Bush, and only that 'they' (suicide bombers, presumably) are 'brave' and 'dying for their own self-respect' - not that they are 'good'. Hence my point about recognising the difference.

In that instance, I was responding to the comments, and I made that clear. Is this no longer allowed?

It is, but it is not clear.  I just reread the response and no where did you say it was just the comments.  I took it as the entire article, Comments included.

yet nowhere do you actually quote him as saying either. He says nothing about Bush,

The bitterness against Bush was clearly enunciated in the linked article. I did nto think it was necessary to paste the whole article here, just some poignant quotes.

only that 'they' (suicide bombers, presumably) are 'brave' and 'dying for their own self-respect' - not that they are 'good'. Hence my point about recognising the difference.

Good was my interpretation, and based upon the statements and the article, I stand by it. 

Yep, terrorists that intentionally murder innocent women and children are brave heros.

Gimme a break. I wonder how he'd feel if it were members of his family that were killed in one of these cowardly attacks?

Sorry guys, Vonnegut is an entertaining read, lately I've found Jimmy Buffett to be just as good.

Salty Piece of Land, and Tales from Margaritaville.....as you get about halfway thru either one you'll see Kurt's influence.

As to a writers politics, well, Newt's books on the civil war could just be the undiscovered cure for insomnia, but I do like his politics.......

'Good was my interpretation, and based upon the statements and the article, I stand by it. '
Good for you. And I'll stand by my comments.

Gimme a break. I wonder how he'd feel if it were members of his family that were killed in one of these cowardly attacks?

I would not wish that on him, but then look what it took the JOrdanians....

Sorry guys, Vonnegut is an entertaining read,

We will disagree.  I like his story line, but his style is just too dry.

'Good was my interpretation, and based upon the statements and the article, I stand by it. ' Good for you. And I'll stand by my comments.

Glad you agreed on the good.

I've only read a little Vonnegut. Galapagos and Breakfast of Champions. I wouldn't classify either of them as brilliant. Then again, I'm not much of a literary critic.

As for the substance of what you've written...I think too many people blindly praise "courage" without any regard for context. As annoying as I find Bill Maher, I actually agreed with his controversial statement about the courageousness of the 9/11 hijackers. It upset a lot of people because courage has been blindly accepted by many as a positive trait. But the good or bad of courageous acts is determined by what is being done, right? Yeah, it takes a lot of balls to be willing to hijack a plane and crash it into a building. But the act of crashing an airplane into a building is a most horrible, despicable act. That the act is courageous is meaningless. Courage should be praised when someone seeks to do a good thing. There's nothing praiseworthy about courage to commit evil deeds.

The objections made here to Vonnegut's statements are perfectly valid. He is praising courage as such, and acknowledging the depravity of the courageous acts at the same time. What a sack of shit he is. I wonder if he'd have the same congratulatory words for the couragous man who will face the death penalty for fatally slitting his throat at his next book signing.

Yeah, it takes a lot of balls to be willing to hijack a plane and crash it into a building.

You confuse suicidal tendencies with courage.  They are not the same.  This is just cowardice.  Even Suicidal people (normally) do not take out a bunch of innocent people with their act.

Courage is sacraficing your life to save innocent others.  It is not using innocent life to make a statement.

You confuse suicidal tendencies with courage. They are not the same. This is just cowardice. Even Suicidal people (normally) do not take out a bunch of innocent people with their act.

I disagree, because your typical suicide bomber is not killing himself to take the easy way out of a difficult situation, but to sacrifice for a cause greater than himself. Someone who kills himself because he's $100,000 in debt, his wife and kids left him, and he just got fired from his job has a completely different reason for killing himself than the terrorist in Iraq who drives up to a checkpoint and blows up civilians and soldiers alike.

I looked up "courage" in the American Heritage Dictionary and got this:

courage SYLLABICATION: cour·age PRONUNCIATION: kûrj, kr- NOUN: The state or quality of mind or spirit that enables one to face danger, fear, or vicissitudes with self-possession, confidence, and resolution; bravery. ETYMOLOGY: Middle English corage, from Old French, from Vulgar Latin *corticum, from Latin cor, heart. See kerd- in Appendix I.

http://www.bartleby.com/61/60/C0696000.html


The capacity to face danger with self-possession, confidence and resolution is pretty descriptive of a suicide bomber. But they're still very evil. Courageous and Evil are not mutually exclusive. I think you feel courage is exclusively an honorable trait, which I understand, and why you feel it is morally wrong to call someone who commits evil "courageous.

Kurt Vonnegut also appears to believe courage is exclusively and honorable trait as well, and he's certainly saying suicide bombers are courageous. Like I said, he's a despicable man if that's the case.

I disagree, because your typical suicide bomber is not killing himself to take the easy way out of a difficult situation, but to sacrifice for a cause greater than himself. Someone who kills himself because he's $100,000 in debt, his wife and kids left him, and he just got fired from his job has a completely different reason for killing himself than the terrorist in Iraq who drives up to a checkpoint and blows up civilians and soldiers alike.

You are still confused.  You are confusing courage with mental defect.  Was John Hinkley Courageous? No, he was just fucking loony tunes!  As were the Hi jackers.

I disagree, because your typical suicide bomber is not killing himself to take the easy way out of a difficult situation, but to sacrifice for a cause greater than himself. Someone who kills himself because he's $100,000 in debt, his wife and kids left him, and he just got fired from his job has a completely different reason for killing himself than the terrorist in Iraq who drives up to a checkpoint and blows up civilians and soldiers alike.

You are still confused.  You are confusing courage with mental defect.  Was John Hinkley Courageous? No, he was just fucking loony tunes!  As were the Hi jackers.