The 2000 milestone in Iraq

Some thoughts

from JoeUser Forums

In the battle of Okinawa, a small island in the Pacific ocean, over 12,000 Americans died and another 38,000 were seriously wounded.

Mind you, this was to take an island that was tiny and had a population less than part of Baghad. And we're still there today.

Luckily, Americans were a little bit tougher of skin back then.  We didn't shirk or slink away from paying a high price to do things that were important in a larger sense. 

2,000 Americans have died in Iraq over the past 3 years.  That's 1/6th as many people who died -- within the span of a few days -- in a single battle on a single island in World War II. 

Those Americans gave their lives in a cause they believed in.  In a cause that serves our country and even the rest of the world even if much of that world (those ironically many of whom were either our enemies or sat on the side-lines back in World War II) doesn't appreciate it. 

Those Americans were not sent there to find "WMD" or for "oil".  They were sent there to topple an evil, corrupt regime that had twice attacked its neighbors, had used whatever weapons it had at hand in war, was violating the cease fire from the previous war with the coaliation, and quite clearly was working its way through the so-called "Sanctions" to the day when it could restart programs to gain for itself horrific weapons to use or distribute to enemies. 

Those Americans were sent to a country that is literally in the middle of a region that is formenting people who want to exterminate not just every single American but the entire western way of life. 

Those Americans gave their lives to help put in its place a country that we hope will become democratic and representative but at the very least won't harbor terrorists who can plan at their leisure further attacks on this country.

Those Americans gave their lives as a part of a broader war on Islamic terror.  And while some don't see the connection between Iraq and Islamic militarism, the same could be said of not seeing the connection between the attack on Pearl Harbor and the US invasion of French North Africa.

Luckily, the greatest generation of Americans were made of sterner stuff than what today's Americans are apparently made of. They rolled up their sleaves and went to work and made possible the world we have today where we have the luxury to hyper-analyse every combat death that occurs in the name of securing freedom and security both there and at home.

The families and friends of those 2,000 men and women can hopefully take comfort that they gave their lives in a cause that was as noble and true as any cause that warriors have fought and died in.  As an American, I want to express appreciation for their sacrifice that has helped make all of us a bit safer and helped make the world a better place.

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Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Excellent piece, Brad. At first I thought this was gonna be a liberal diatribe, and was gonna compare it with the number who've died in car crashes, and various other "assumed risks" since then...but I see there's no need! But, just for the record...3,000 died on 9/11/01...one DAY vs. three years, and 50,000 died at Antietam!
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
war sucks, it is man at his lowest, nothing comes out of war but death, maimed bodies and profit for arms dealers.

I hate war.
Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
I too, hate war.....but....war sometimes is necessary. I believe that taking Saddam out was the proper thing to do, and thus, war was the proper thing to do. Sucks losing ppl in a war....
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

In a training exercise in preparation for D'Day, 1000 American soldiers died when their transport rolled and sank.  1000.

2000 is a lot and each one is a tragedy.  But we dont need the vermin growing up into more Tojos and Hitlers when 2000 will be the opening salvo, not 3 years worth.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have always been rather surprised that the US' war in Iraq has been portraied as a failure by so many. I find that invading a country and holding it for three years with 2000 soldiers dead is pretty well done. One death is one too many, but invading a country and taking so few losses is quite impressive in my eyes.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
This exercise doesn't work for me. It's like saying that if I beat my kids, since I have only two, it's ok because there are parents who have five kids and beat them.

I'm much more convinced by arguments that push the importance of the cause and the willingness of the service members to give their lives for that cause.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
The self-proclaimed "Greatest Generation" had the luxury of a clear enemy. We were told about weapons of mass destruction, oil, despotism, etc in an effort to get us into Iraq. It's not a luxury to "hyper-analyse [sic]" every combat death, it's a citizen's right and responsibility. There has been no connection made between Iraq and terrorism. The "greatest generation" supported other sham wars like Korea and VietNam, and the best thing that can be said about such mindless flag-waving patriots is that they are dying off and taking their irrational "My Country Right or Wrong" claptrap with them.

I argue that "today's generation of Americans" is made of sterner stuff, because even though we have more reasons to despise and abandon this country, we still stay and love and fight for America. When it says "we the people" and that means us too. Rolling up their "sleaves" [sic] to work to make this world possible (with its imperialist and inequitable tendencies) is precisely why so much of the world holds America in such low regard.

If you are a Vet, I salute you. I also respectfully disagree.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Thanks Brad, this is an excellent article!!

2,000 American war deaths is tragic, but 32 million people getting a chance to vote on a Constitution is priceless.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

The self-proclaimed "Greatest Generation" had the luxury of a clear enemy.


So do we. If you track down the Ba'ath party to Michel 'Aflaq and Sunni fundamentalism to the 1940s mufti of Jerusalem you will even find that the enemy is still the same. Go on. Do it!


We were told about weapons of mass destruction, oil, despotism, etc in an effort to get us into Iraq.


If you read a history book you will find that the greatest generation were also told about weapons of mass destruction and despotism.

The US developed nuclear weapons because Germany was thought to have such a program too.

Either way, one should NEVER attempt to find out whether the enemy has such a program without beating him first. It's not worth the risk.

And anybody who is unhappy with Saddam no longer being in power can move to North Korea. The dictator there still has all the power he wants and no American soldiers die in the country. Ideal for the left, I'd say. They even have a full-scale social security system.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
I just want to add that I, having been born in West-Berlin, am alive and free today because America's Greatest Generation believed claims about weapons of mass destruction and despotism.

And if Hitler had had no weapons of mass destruction, I would _still_ be happy about being alive and free.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

And anybody who is unhappy with Saddam no longer being in power can move to North Korea. The dictator there still has all the power he wants and no American soldiers die in the country. Ideal for the left, I'd say. They even have a full-scale social security system.

That gets a cookie!

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am sad that so many lives have been lost in this war and any other, from both sides or the battlegrounds. Still it's a fact that humans understand violence better than anything else, videogames prove that. Sometimes one has to do bad things so that good things happen. All good things must come to an end but from the ashes life will grow again. I salute all those who gave their lives so that I may have the freedom I enjoy in the USA. Including those from other countries, whether they dislike me or not.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am sad that so many lives have been lost in this war and any other, from both sides or the battlegrounds.



I sure don't feel sorry for the other side dying....the more of them that are dead, means the less of ours that will die
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
I sure don't feel sorry for the other side dying....the more of them that are dead, means the less of ours that will die


There have been many innocents caught up in the crossfire, and I don't want to presume things about you, but I'm hoping you mean you're glad that the insurgents and Saddam's guys are dead, not those folks in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

I sure don't feel sorry for the other side dying....the more of them that are dead, means the less of ours that will die


Indeed.

One must not forget that "ours" includes American and Iraqi civilians as well as American and Iraqi soldiers. While "the other side" is the terrorists who target American and Iraqi civilians as well as American and Iraqi soldiers.

There is no equivalence here!
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

There is no equivalence here!

But the mind numbed robots trying to make the equation, Like Cindy Sheehan, try to.  They are not terrorist, but Freedom Fighters.  The extreme left wing is chanting that a lot.

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

The self-proclaimed "Greatest Generation" had the luxury of a clear enemy

Their enemy was as clear as ours in most respects.  The difference is that we didn't have a bunch of arm-chair apologists demanding exit strategies and wanting to know the 10-year battle plan as Americans shot French soldiers in Northern Africa despite having just been attacked by Japan on the other side of the world.

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top

I argue that "today's generation of Americans" is made of sterner stuff, because even though we have more reasons to despise and abandon this country,

The ignorance of this statement is...simply astounding.  It also codifies what I've been saying for some time -- those who have problems with US foreign policy or the war in Iraq are -- generally -- ignorant of  history.  Anyone even casually familiar with American history knows that today we have far more freedoms, far more toleration, and far more altruism in both our society in general as well as in our government in particular.  This also extends into the realm of public ethics and morality where even the Clinton administration, far from being a pinnacle of ethics was still far more transparent and scrupulous than what we've had in the past.

Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
I sure don't feel sorry for the other side dying....the more of them that are dead, means the less of ours that will die


There have been many innocents caught up in the crossfire, and I don't want to presume things about you, but I'm hoping you mean you're glad that the insurgents and Saddam's guys are dead, not those folks in the wrong place at the wrong time



Tex....the innocents are not on the other side....the insurgents and Saddam's guys are the ones I am talking about.....

I hate to read news that another soldier has been killed....or that a man, woman or child was caught in a cross-fire (or whatever).....

But when I read that x amount of insurgents were killed (or captured)....then that makes me smile.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

But when I read that x amount of insurgents were killed (or captured

means fewer of us and the innocents are going to die.  Anywhere in the world

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Although I mourn the loss of life, I will not apoligize for us removing SADDAM, it's just so easy to monday morning quarterback things about WMD'S, what kills me is if SADDAM WERE to have sold his many proven WMD'S to terrorist and it was used here, you bleeding hearts would be crying , WHY DID YOU NOT PROTECT US ? bahhhhh
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think we owe it too the fallen to "hyper-analyse" every death. Your very cavalier attitude about chalking up battle deaths to "if you want to make an omlette you have to break a few eggs" is disgusting. Have you ever been to war or for that matter a warzone?

If you feel that strongly for the cause then why dont you sign up and shoulder some of the burden? That, if anything was the key difference between previous generations and our own. They actually fought for what they believed in ...those who didn;t go actually had a sense of shame and humilty for staying home in the comfort of their mothers and armchairs ... writing software.
What have you done for this war effort? What sacrifice have you made?

A rap-atap-tap on the keyboard is hardly the same as the rap-atat-tat of an AK47 being fired at you. Im curious when you say

We didn't shirk or slink away from paying a high price to do things that were important in a larger sense.


what exactly do you mean by "we"? What price have YOU paid? Its also interesting that you have completely ignored all figures not accounting for American death. Theres over 100,000 Iraqi dead. These people you've supposedly set out to save? What are they? What choice did they have? Or do you also believe that its quite o.k for you to speak for them as well while your telling your own country men to shut up and waive their 1st Amendment rights? Dont question. Just follow.

How can you use language like "true and noble" for a war that required the President to lie to us in order to get us there in the first place. How can you compare the invasion of Iraq with the defence of our soveriegn boundaries? If your pro-war thats one thing but dont disgrace yourself by suggesting that the invasion of Iraq is anything like WWII. That was honourable. That was justified.

You've also completely discounted the technological advantage we currently hold. We have trillions of dollars of technology tied up in our weapons of mass destruction and we're still getting kicked. We are not in control. We have to desecrate the dead in order to engage the enemy. Our justification being, their just too "sneaky".

This brave new world you talk of...is this the one whereby we as Amercians are now so scared of the rest of the world the we are investing biilions of dollars into putting weaponry into space?

Your article is nothing more than propaganda trotted out by some software geek whose probably never himself made any kind of sacrifice to the "greater good" beyond paying his taxes. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
you guys are hilarious ... i wonder how many of you have kids in the army?

maybe you should read Pat Buchannans post on www.antiwar.com. Hes a conservative
with some SENSE ... you idiots just repeat the same old warn out talking
points

saddam gassed the earth we live on
bush sits at gods right hand
he had WMD's and we dont
the world is better without him and his dog

Remember we were saying the same crap during Vietnam ... when it was us
and the south ... SUPPOSEDLY. Took a couple of years but they kicked us out
and so it shall be here.

Wake the hell up.
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
by the way its WAYYYY more than 2000 dead. Its estimated the number is
closer to 10k.

Heres the little secret:
The Pentagon counts war dead different. If you die in Langstien Airbase or on
route you arent counted as casualty IN Iraq.

You guys kill me ... take the wool off your eyes
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
you guys are hilarious ... i wonder how many of you have kids in the army?


My husband is serving.

by the way its WAYYYY more than 2000 dead. Its estimated the number is
closer to 10k.


This has already been debunked.