A few questions for the christian folk...

PSST! Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce aren't in the Bible, so you can't use them as proof of Biblical support for their prophecies.

The Bible differentiates between false prophets and prophets who receive their prophecies from God, btw.

A few questions for the christian folk...

Thats why i said "a few".... ok?

But, you can't deny, that there *is* prophecising in it... yet, it seems to contradict itself by warning against prophets...yes, "false" prophets, but who is to say who is false and who is true.

1 Corinthians 13: 8-12

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

9For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Ruh?

I'n not clicking on this TW....

(excellent answer, Tex, at least as far as "prophets" in today's day and age are concerned).

Well in general, nothing that came from God would be considered "Black" arts, would it? It would be like, say the dark side of the force, to use a equally silly metaphor. You could accomplish prophecy through God, or you could do the same thing by applying "evil". It isn't the prophecy that is the problem, but the method by which you go about it.

I'd also mention that not all Christians buy into prophecy at all, and not all who do believe everything you are using to build up the conflict.

I dont think Christians or the bible are against any magic per se, only that which is derived from Satan (the black magic).  What comes from God (Speaking in tongues, prophesizing, etc.) is not bad.  It is the source of the magic that is in question (and for the record, I dont believe in either).

I'n not clicking on this TW....

It only speaks to "prophets" and "psychics" post-Christ.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

9For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

The "perfect" would be Christ. He was the fulfillment of the prophesies, and his life and death changed the spiritual laws.

Matthew 5: 17-18

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

I think there are tons of contradictions and inconsistencies in the Bible.

It all comes down to authority. Who has the authority to act in deity name and who doesn't. When a wiccan uses their magic towards a certain goal, she calls upon a specific goddess (in other words, she acts through the authority of the goddes who covers the particular spell or force she calls upon).

When I act as an Elder in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I use the name Jesus Christ and the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Prophecy, blessing, baptizing, marrying, teaching; each person who claims the ability or privelege to do so does so because of authority from a higher being (or organization).

That brings us to everyone else. When those of us who believe we have been granted this authority act, it is then up to other people to decide whether they want to recognize the authority we are claiming. I don't expect very many of you here at JU to recognize my calling as an Elder anymore than I would take a witch's spell cast over me very seriously.

So, we are all free to claim to be prophets, witches, teachers, Elders, priests or priestesses all we want, we are also free to not recognize those titles and authorities of anyone else.

In the end, the only thing that will matter is truth and fact, until then all we can go on is faith and hope... or neither.

Is it right for some one to say, that one who follows a druidic 'faith' (lack of a better term), like one of my friends online, is evil. He is adamantley peaceful. He follows the better side of druidic "religion".... would *that* be (cause he is a "high priest") evil, would he be evil? As far as i know he doesn't practice black magic...

Also, how could you say that prophetising the future is evil, or good for that matter... How would you view someone who is predicting a major earthquake, evil, because of what he saw? Or good, cause he has made it known... (If the quake came to pass)

Well in general, nothing that came from God would be considered "Black" arts, would it?

I have a question for you...what about Satan? According to the bible, god created all things.... and satan rebelled, and is "evil"....so, would that mean that there *is* something from god that is evil.....

like one of my friends online, is evil. He is adamantley peaceful. He follows the better side of druidic "religion".... would *that* be (cause he is a "high priest") evil, would he be evil? As far as i know he doesn't practice black magic...

Be very, very careful, Lucas. If the person you're talking to is a teenager or in his early 20's, it's very unlikely he's a Druidic 'High Priest', and even then....you've shown your naivete in the past with all things cyber, so just watch yourself.
That's all I'm going to say about that.

Be very, very careful, Lucas. If the person you're talking to is a teenager or in his early 20's, it's very unlikely he's a Druidic 'High Priest', and even then....you've shown your naivete in the past with all things cyber, so just watch yourself. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Mmm, I understand. But, I've known him for 6 years, he came to visit a year or so ago. And he's around 34 years old.... And don't worry, i'm watching...

God created many evil things. He made Hitler and Stalin and all of the murderers. He didn't make them evil He gave them and all of us free will to choose our path.

Reply By: LocamamaPosted: Friday, October 21, 2005God created many evil things. He made Hitler and Stalin and all of the murderers. He didn't make them evil He gave them and all of us free will to choose our path.

But, If god is all powerful, then why would he let them do what they did, let alone come to power....?

But, If god is all powerful, then why would he let them do what they did, let alone come to power....?

Now you're entering into the concept of free will. Very complex subject.

Here's a basic idea. God made everyone, but he gave everyone the ability to choose whether or not to obey him.

(do good or evil. By definition (if Christian) obey God = good, disobey = evil)If God tells you to kill someone, then it's not sin, right? Or if he tells you that, oh say wearing polka dots is wrong, then it is sin.)

In order to be an individual, not just an automaton (robot without free will) you have to be able to make that choice. However, in order for people to have that ability, some must choose it, right? If he made everyone, so that everyone choose good automatically, then it's no choice at all.

Furthermore, if you allow it as a choice, then it does no good to tramp it out immediately, as soon as evil pops up. The old testament is full of stories where the Israelites start off well, then are allowed to stray into evil, set on the right path, stray, right path, stray......and so on.

Other factors include that it serves the Lord. How? I don't know. The Bible does say that all things work to serve the Lord.

Did something that need to happen occur that couldn't without Hitler? Who knows. Did it prevent worse evil from happening? Can't say.

If we can't choose evil, then we can't choose to serve God either. We'd be tools. And as far as we know, free will applies to Satan too, because he chose to rebel against God. In fact the word satan doesn't always mean "THE DEVIL."
It's actually from a Hebraic word that means one who opposes.

However, when you get down to it, as far as the Bible goes, God does what He wants, and it's not up to us to question. That was the same answer (boiled down about two chapters) that He gave to Job when Job was bitching about the crap he was going through.

As to your "magic" question, okay if given by the authority of God, otherwise a no-no. Does it sometimes work outside of this? Sure. Look at Saul and the Witch of Endor (not the moon where the Ewoks were from, I swear.) They called up the ghost of the prophet Samuel, and Sammie told him off for it.

Or how about the demon that Saul (the apostle, not the king) got thrown in jail for casting out? He pissed off the local merchants because they couldn't hear the prophecies any more.

Unless you're into I'm okay, you're okay, and all paths are valid religion, something which definitely opposes Christian doctrine, if you're friend is doing magic or making prophecy legitimately, and it's not from God, than to a Christian, it must be Satanic in origin.

(and actually, even that is indirectly from God, it is the powers that God allows Satan, much like he allows us the power of choice)

Fun stuff, huh? And no, I don't walk around thinking, wow, what wiccan or druid can I persecute today. One of the basic tenants of Christianity is hate the sin, love the sinner.

No, we're not supposed to judge. HOWEVER, if it is clearly stated by God (from what's in the bible) then we, as Christians are to recognize it as such, and neither approve of nor participate in it, including preforming "magic" in or out of the name of God without his say so.

This has been entirely, insanely too long, but I hope it helps clarify the position a little.

But, If god is all powerful, then why would he let them do what they did, let alone come to power....?

It's the whole free will thing. He could have made us zombies who did only what he wanted to but He didn't, He let us have free will to chose our actions. Unfortunately, many people make the wrong choices.

I guess that comes down to the whole if God is good why do bad things happen argument. I don't think there's any real explaining or understanding of it. I believe that God wants the best for us but He is not going to impose His will on us. We have to come and follow his way by choice.

In the Old Testament when Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery, that was an evil thing but God said "they meant it for evil but I meant it for good". So even though something bad happened to him in the end it ended up putting him in the position of power where he could save his family from starvation. Now I'm hearing Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamcoat music in my head. Time to go.

It is the source of the magic that is in question

Therein lies the answer.

Is it right for some one to say, that one who follows a druidic 'faith' (lack of a better term), like one of my friends online, is evil. He is adamantley peaceful. He follows the better side of druidic "religion".... would *that* be (cause he is a "high priest") evil, would he be evil? As far as i know he doesn't practice black magic...

Of course he's evil, but only because we're ALL evil.

"There is no one righteous; not even one." (Rom. 3:10)

In and of ourselves, none of us is good. That's why it's called GRACE. It's a demonstration of God's unmerited favor when one is "saved".

As far as your question goes, it's not the person I judge, it's actions. I don't condemn anyone or even pretend to know another person's heart. What I AM responsible to do is stand for the Truth and expose darkness, but light, by it's very nature, does that.
As a Christian, the Bible tells me how to distinguish between the spirits.

"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)

There are a few different passages that talk about how you can know... but basically it boils down to two things. 1 - Does the spirit acknowledge Christ as Lord? Not just knowing intellectually (even the demons know and shudder), but confesses Him as Lord. 2 - If what they predict actually comes to pass. Benny Hinn (modern televangelist) once predicted that Jesus was going to come stand on stage with him. *laughs* It never happened. He's an imposter.

Also, how could you say that prophetising the future is evil, or good for that matter... How would you view someone who is predicting a major earthquake, evil, because of what he saw? Or good, cause he has made it known... (If the quake came to pass)

God created many evil things. He made Hitler and Stalin and all of the murderers. He didn't make them evil He gave them and all of us free will to choose our path.

Agree completely.

But, If god is all powerful, then why would he let them do what they did, let alone come to power....?

I have three children. I want them to love me and obey me, but I don't want them to do it because they HAVE to. I want them to do it because they WANT to. That's why. If we were robots, programmed to love and worship God... what's the point in that? Because God did give us free will, sin entered the picture. As a result of sin (and I personally think pride is at the root of all sin - pride is what caused Satan to seek a higher position, is it not? Pride is what causes me to do the things I want, rather than the things God wants for me), we live in a fallen world. That's just the way it is. One day, all that will change. For now... the condition will continue to deteriorate - because we've chosen to rebel against God. And we all do. I'm not talking about looters in Louisiana, or murderers, or rapists. I'm including myself in this equation as well, as a Christian.

These are not easy questions, Lucas, and they don't have easy answers. But the answers are there. Keep seeking the truth.

Look at Saul and the Witch of Endor (not the moon where the Ewoks were from, I swear.) They called up the ghost of the prophet Samuel, and Sammie told him off for it.

*chuckling* Love the way you put this.

This has been entirely, insanely too long, but I hope it helps clarify the position a little.

Spoken with clarity and brevity. I thought it was great!

Hmmm, ok.... well, the truth is out there....i guess.... I understand now what you guys mean...

God created many evil things. He made Hitler and Stalin and all of the murderers. He didn't make them evil He gave them and all of us free will to choose our path.

The key there being Free Will.  All to often those that want to poo poo religion use the fact that evil exists as their crutch.  It does, because God allows us to be evil, as well as good.

The key there being Free Will. All to often those that want to poo poo religion use the fact that evil exists as their crutch. It does, because God allows us to be evil, as well as good.

Will?! What'd they do to my friend? (Free Willy!)