An Indictment of Intolerance

Such intolerant language, Philo!

So judgemental and violent!

"It makes you fucking die inside..."
"It makes you a coward..."
"Mother fucker, you don't even try and hide it..."
"Damn right, I'll deride it!"
"... the garbage that your mouth has so often cited..."
"I don't see how you could be so damn nearsighted..."
"There's a natural law..."

So this is how you tolerate and respect and thoughtfully consider other points of view, to see what wisdom you might learn from minds other than your own?

With obscenities and curses? With blatant words of hate and rejection? With claims to a special understanding of the truth (which you call "natural law") that makes you right and others wrong?

With the very attitude you accuse others of having, that clouds their thinking and prevents them from seeing the truth and goodness of your point of view? I'm looking at your point of view right now, as clear-headed as I can, and all I see is anger, hate, and despair.

You should be ashamed of yourself, Philo.

Careful Stu,

You have no right to censure or otherwise restrict the creative expression of others.....no matter how vile, disgusting, filty, or otherwise hateful....

Thus the rationale for Rap lyrics, and a myriad of other inciteful discourse, all in the name of "Diversity".

Philo, I've read many post by you in the past, this is well below par. Are you regressing ?

I simply don't know what to say to this.

I slightly see your point. As the husband of a Mexican born (Puebla) lady, I share your hatred of intolerance.

As the father of 6 interracial children, this crap scares the bejesus out of me.

Let's face facts Philomedy, there are indeed intolerant people in this world. However, I will tell you this without a hint of doubt, this trash will go nowhere towards convincing the intolerant to change their ways. This crap will probably only drive their intolerance to a new low.

You are an extremely literate young guy and you have a great head on your shoulders. I found this out by reading back on some of your other posts. Someone not taking the time to do that would probably have an image of you with your bandana tied on your head representing your favorite gang while typing away on your stolen computer and burning a blunt.

This slang filled bunch of cursing calling itself a poem or rap does not do you any justice. Your sadness could be expressed in such a better way.

Such intolerant language, Philo! So judgemental and violent!

So this is how you tolerate and respect and thoughtfully consider other points of view, to see what wisdom you might learn from minds other than your own?

You should be ashamed of yourself, Philo.

Why exactly? Because I don't tolerate racism? Because I'm judgemental and violent towards racism? What wisdom do I exactly wish to attain from racism?

If you want to call me a hypocrite (not saying that you did, although it was certainly implied) for not tolerating racism, fine. I don't tolerate murder or rape either. What a horrible, intolerant person I am.

You have no right to censure or otherwise restrict the creative expression of others.....no matter how vile, disgusting, filty, or otherwise hateful.... Thus the rationale for Rap lyrics, and a myriad of other inciteful discourse, all in the name of "Diversity".

The way I read it, your response is facetious. If I'm correct, you're saying that there should be a degree of censorship allowed if something is especially vile, disgusting, filthy, etc. That's truly frightening, especially since I don't see what's so vile about what I wrote. I swore, that's it. Is that the standard you're setting? Everything that swears should be censored? Totalitarianism, here we come.

Philo, I've read many post by you in the past, this is well below par. Are you regressing ?

I find this not only at par but above. I'm sorry you don't like swearing, but that doesn't diminish the quality of the work, nor does it make it worse than any of the other things I've done.

However, I will tell you this without a hint of doubt, this trash will go nowhere towards convincing the intolerant to change their ways. This crap will probably only drive their intolerance to a new low.

Thanks for reading my other stuff. You'll notice that there are things I write where I conciously make an effort to change minds. This is not one of those. I don't have any illusions of bringing people to my side with this. This is just an indictment, and a blunt statement of my point of view. And if you could refrain from calling my work trash in the future, I would appreciate it.

Someone not taking the time to do that would probably have an image of you with your bandana tied on your head representing your favorite gang while typing away on your stolen computer and burning a blunt.

Someone who would think that from reading one rather short poem is probably not someone I want taking the time to get to know me.

This slang filled bunch of cursing calling itself a poem or rap does not do you any justice. Your sadness could be expressed in such a better way.

The only slang I used here is "ain't," and that only to keep the rhythm of the rhyme. Furthermore, I don't think you can call a 31 line poem that contains 6 swear words a "bunch of cursing." There are far filthier works of poetry (The Miller's Tale by Chaucer, to name one) that continue to be exalted to this day, and rightfully so. If you're going to deride my work, do it with some basis other than you don't like swearing. I can take constructive criticism, but there's nothing constructive about telling me that my poem sucks because I used the word "fuck."

"Equality" is not a natural law in any sense of the word. The inherent 'rightness' of ( or moral yearning for ) equality is a construct of society, and it's enforcement lies in the realm of government, not nature.

I happen to think all people were created equal. I think that was a truth long before it was written into the Constitution. As far as I'm concerned, it's natural.

Philomedy, you're not talking about hating racism, here. You're talking about hating racists.

You know, real people who for whatever reason have bought into a corrupt and hateful ideology. And what you wrote is hateful, intolerant. You appear totally disinterested in them as people, totally unininterested in finding out what led them to this evil place. Totally uninterested in understanding them, their pain, their ignorance. Totally uninterested in bringing light to their darkness, comforting warmth to their cold and lonely hearts, kind truths to clear away the hateful lies.

All you offer these people is your hatred, your curses. You counter their foul ideas with foul words. You find them in a cave, and wall them in with obscenities, rather than trying to meet them there and lead them out into the bright and beautiful world you supposedly believe in.

And you frame this intolerant rant as a rant against intolerance. You claim repeatedly that you know the truth and that others do not--this is the foundation of intolerance.

This isn't the article of a tolerant person asking, how can I help racists to give up their foolishness and become better people? This is the article of an intolerant person asking, how can I more fully express my hatred of others?

You're not a hypocrite telling us, "do as I say, not as I do". What you're telling us is that some people aren't worth saving or understanding, only hating and reviling.

It's not a pretty sight when Christians do it, and it's no less ugly when you do it.

Philomedy, you're not talking about hating racism, here. You're talking about hating racists.

Ah, the beautiful thing about poetry, so many interpretations to be had. You have the privilege of being able to talk to the author, so listen if you want: This is about racism, not racists. The "you" I am addressing is a personification of racism. I didn't have David Duke plastered on my brain when I wrote this. I understand how you misunderstood, but I am clearly stating to you here that your interpretation is wrong.

And you frame this intolerant rant as a rant against intolerance. You claim repeatedly that you know the truth and that others do not--this is the foundation of intolerance.

Again, intolerant of racism, murder, rape, child abuse, terrorism, discrimination, domestic violence, animal cruelty, etc.

What terrible things to not tolerate.

This isn't the article of a tolerant person asking, how can I help racists to give up their foolishness and become better people? This is the article of an intolerant person asking, how can I more fully express my hatred of others?

I already responded that I had no illusions of changing anyone's mind with this. This was a statement of my position.

What you're telling us is that some people aren't worth saving or understanding, only hating and reviling.

Again, you're wrong. I can see how you misinterpreted, but you're wrong.

This is about racism, who is personified as someone who can't be redeemed, because I don't think racism is redeemable. It either exists or it doesn't.

In a way, you're right though. If you read a little more closely, you'll see that the person the poem speaks to is way beyond redemption:

"You gave up too long ago, you can't rewind it."

The poem doesn't try to forgo the changing of minds, but acknowledges that some people's minds won't be changed.

I stand corrected. You said something that seemed mean and hateful to me, but it turned out that it was my own prejudices and narrow view that made it seem that way. When I looked more closely, and paid more attention to the alternative interpretations, I saw that I was wrong in my interpretation, and that you are not as hateful as I had thought.

Thank you.

While we're on the subject of interpreting poetry, I admit that I'm still a little confused about the line "You gave up long ago, you can't rewind it". This really seems to apply only to actual persons who can change their mind (or make up their mind), rather than to the personification of an abstract concept.

But I do agree that intolerance of bad things is a good and healthy response, and I don't fault you for it.

On a slightly different tangent, it may well be true that some people won't change their mind. But giving up on them is intolerant; who are you--or I--to decide when a person is no longer worth working to save?

Anyway, it's my understanding that good poetry, like good music, clearly expresses truths or ideas that cannot be clearly or easily expressed with prose.

I admit that I'm still a little confused about the line "You gave up long ago, you can't rewind it". This really seems to apply only to actual persons who can change their mind (or make up their mind), rather than to the personification of an abstract concept.

In personifying the concept, I gave it extremely human qualities. And it ties in to my next response, so I'll combine them:

On a slightly different tangent, it may well be true that some people won't change their mind. But giving up on them is intolerant; who are you--or I--to decide when a person is no longer worth working to save?

I'm me and you're you, and that's all we need to be in order to make the decision. We're all rational people capable of reaching a point where we realize it's futile to keep trying to beat common sense into someone's head. It's not about anyone having the power to universally judge who's hopeless and who isn't, it's about all people, on an individual basis, being fit to judge when a point is going to get across and when it's not.

Ah. That makes more sense. Thanks again.

I guess what threw me off was the absolutist and intrusive language that you used. It makes it sound like you've looked into the person's heart, seen the ugly truth about their limitations, and realized that your efforts were in vain.

Anyway, good luck with your poetry!

The only slang I used here is "ain't,"

I never singled out just slang words.

talk your mess

talk your shit

But while we are at it, I guess the following word must have made it's way into proper speech since I last took an English class, I could have sworn it was another slang.

cuz

Hey, if you don't like what I write, you don't like what I write. I wish you'd hate it based on something more concrete than word usage, but I can't make you like what I write.

It's not just about word usage; it's also about the attitude. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but you seem to have a very big chip on your shoulder.

I was having a conversation with a co-worker the other day who, like my wife, is from Mexico. She was talking about how she prefers shopping at a mall here in Atlanta that is predominately Hispanic because she feels like the white people stare at her in the other malls. I asked her if she had considered looking in the mirror. Maybe she is just a little self conscious and she’s the one doing the staring. I mean this is Atlanta, not Redneckville, GA. We’ve got whites, blacks, Hispanics, Indians, Orientals, you name it, we got it.

It really got me thinking and I asked my wife if she felt like we got stares while walking through the mall. Her response was simply that she did not know. Now do you think that my wife and I, with our pack of half breeds get less looks at the mall than my co-worker? Than you? I somehow doubt it; in fact it would not surprise me to find that we got more looks and stares. But guess what? My wife and I don’t walk around with a chip on our shoulder. We don’t walk through the mall looking into the eyes of every passerby looking for that intolerant soul that looks at us strangely. You mentioned in another post that you witnessed a woman crossing the street when she saw you and your friend; my wife and I would not even notice such behavior because we would not be looking for it.

Perhaps people have interpreted your poem incorrectly, if so, my apologies. But your rant comes across to me and others as just another rap song bemoaning someone’s attempt to keep you “down”. To us non-racists, it’s all a little tiring to keep hearing this.

As has been widely reported, Hispanics are now the largest minority in the US. In fact, with blacks, Hispanics and Asians accounting for an ever increasing percentage of the population, all this talk of racism is becoming more and more irrelevant. Soon there will be no majority and with more people marrying other races, the question of race will be a thing of the past.

I assume from your talk of university studies that you are late teens or early twenties. That being the case, this is not your mom and dad’s racial fight. You live in a world where Univision and Telemundo are available on nearly every cable company. We have thirty Spanish language stations in Atlanta. 30 stations!! As far as I know there is only BET that is specifically geared towards blacks and no Asian channels exist. Dora the Explorer is the number two pre-school show on Nickelodeon and probably every kid in the US: white, black or Hispanic knows how to say Hola! Buenos Dias! and Amigo! Hispanics now own 1 in every 20 businesses in the US; own, not work for them!! In fact, we now have our first baseball team owned by a Hispanic (The Angels). We have Hispanics gaining an ever increasing voice in politics, the mayor of Los Angeles, a US senator in Florida; the Attorney General of the US, the governor of New Mexico, numerous judges, and this list goes on and on.

Chill out with the rhetoric and the cursing raps, it’s really not as bad as you make it out to be. Good luck with your studies, who knows, you might be President one day!!

I happen to think all people were created equal. I think that was a truth long before it was written into the Constitution. As far as I'm concerned, it's natural.

I believe the two of you are using the term equality to mean substantially different things. Equality of opportunity (what "created equal" means) is natural in the sense you mean, Philo, and preserved in our Constitution and Bill of Rights, but equality of outcomes (in part what LW meant, I believe) is a different kettle of fish & definitely not natural, though governments have tried to enforce the concept to varying degrees and with little success over the course of history.

Cheers,
Daiwa

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but you seem to have a very big chip on your shoulder.

Have you read the other comments? I think the poem is explained extensively through my correspondence with Stutefish. Read those.

But your rant comes across to me and others as just another rap song bemoaning someone’s attempt to keep you “down”.

How is it that a swear word immediately turns a poem into a rap song? Can someone explain it to me?

To us non-racists, it’s all a little tiring to keep hearing this.

Thanks for calling me a racist. That's gonna go a long way for you trying to make your point with me. I can't even imagine your logic with this one...Hmm...here's a poem about equality...i think a racist wrote it...

Chill out with the rhetoric and the cursing raps, it’s really not as bad as you make it out to be.

The poem is about racism. It may not be as prevalent today as it once was, but racism is "as bad as I make it out to be." I'm not talking about lynchings happening everyday, I'm not talking about getting a dirty look one day walking through the mall, I'm not talking about being arbitrarily stopped by police or security guards or authorities, I'm not bemoaning my life as a minority, I'm not demanding any more opportunity than I already have, nor am I asking anyone to bend over backwards to give them to me.

I am talking about racism. The ideology. The mindset. The attitude. Prevalent or not, it's bad. I don't have to make it out to be bad, it already is.

Racism isn't as bad as I make it out to be? Racism is every bit as bad as I make it out to be and more. It's not about occurrence. It may not be as prevalent as it used to be, but I'm not addressing that here. I'm addressing the ideology and its existence.