We are different, reposted.

from JoeUser Forums

Forever serenity wrote an article earlier today asking why athiests do the things they do Link .  I wrote this article a while back and thought that this was a decent answer to her question.

I'm different.

I'm not like you.  I don't share your faith, your beliefs, your religion.

And I am perfectly okay with that. 

I'm not against your praying for me.  I'm not against your quoting the bible  to me.  I'm not even against your talking to me about your faith. I'm happy for you that you have something that you wholeheartedly believe in, that gives you comfort, that makes you happy.  I experience the same feelings when I practice my life philosophy.  I'll even go to your houses of worship with you, because I respect your right to practice your faith.

What I am against is your relentless pushing and shoving and insisting that I conform to your rules and to your standards.   I am tolerant of your beliefs, and I ask that you be tolerant of mine.  I don't put rules and conditions before you. You do it to me, though. I don't tell you that you cannot do this or cannot do that because it offends me. Again, you do it to me.  Your intolerance towards me makes me, the person who is usually tolerant, want to dig my heels in.  It makes me want to insist that you respect me and my beliefs, it makes me want to force you to accept me.  I don't like intolerance, in any form, but your relentlessness makes me become that which I dislike.

It makes me want to scream.

I'm different, and I'm okay with that.  You, apparently, are not.

religion
4,117 views 21 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
I wish more people would come out on JoeUser with the kind of statement you just made.

I should post... but then again I feel like I'm fighting the tide in the Bay of Fundy on this topic. Maybe JoeUser isn't the best place for someone of a Liberal mind.

I think what many fundies fail to realize is that many of us 'non-christians' are just as moral (or more) as they are, and have goodwill toward our fellow man, often more than they do, and aren't just running around in some Soddom & Gommora den of lust...

I'd make a GREAT christian .... except for one flaw - I don't believe in it. I don't know why they don't get that.
The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
although I detest the french they have a saying I totally agree with "vive la differance"
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Have a nice day and worship how you please as long as you don't push it on me....

That's how I put it to people.....
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Great post, Dharma. And Lotherius, no worry's, I've had the same feeling about JU sometimes but I like it here too. Hang in there and keep posting your honest thoughts. Nobody has the right dictate your religion OR your politics. Cheers!
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

I think what many fundies fail to realize is that many of us 'non-christians' are just as moral (or more) as they are, and have goodwill toward our fellow man, often more than they do, and aren't just running around in some Soddom & Gommora den of lust...

YES!!!!!  Just because I don't worship, doesn't make me devoid of any morals or ethics!!!  I DO have a moral compass of my own, and it works quite nicely.  Contrary to popular Christian myth, us agnostics, athiests and non-Christians in general aren't all running raping, pillaging, murdering and generally causing mayhem - in fact, the last serial killer that was picked up (BTK) professed to be a stauch Christian, so that should go to show that having a faith doesn't mean that you're a better person morally. 

Phew.  That was a lot of information in a small space, sorry.  I just get infuriated when born again Christians preach to me that I'm a bad mother because I'm not raising my children in a church, that I'm a bad wife because I don't obey my husband, and that after I die God's going to look at me and laugh before he sends me off to hang out with Lucifer for eternity.  Thing is, in order to believe in Satan and the devil, you have to also believe in God...and if I'm perfectly honest I don't believe in either.

I'd make a GREAT christian .... except for one flaw - I don't believe in it. I don't know why they don't get that

I think because faith comes so naturally to them.  It's like riding a bike or swimming...those of us who can do those things sometimes forget how hard it is for those who can't.

As it was when you posted it the first time--excellent!

Thanks, Meg.

although I detest the french they have a saying I totally agree with "vive la differance"

Exactly.  It would be an incredibly boring world if we all thought that same, huh?

Have a nice day and worship how you please as long as you don't push it on me

Unfortunately, people say that all the time, but don't really mean it.

 

Great post, Dharma.

Thanks!

Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think what many fundies fail to realize is that many of us 'non-christians' are just as moral (or more) as they are, and have goodwill toward our fellow man, often more than they do, and aren't just running around in some Soddom & Gommora den of lust...I'd make a GREAT christian .... except for one flaw - I don't believe in it. I don't know why they don't get that.

There are many of you out there, Loth... I get it.

I just get infuriated when born again Christians preach to me that I'm a bad mother because I'm not raising my children in a church, that I'm a bad wife because I don't obey my husband, and that after I die God's going to look at me and laugh before he sends me off to hang out with Lucifer for eternity. Thing is, in order to believe in Satan and the devil, you have to also believe in God...and if I'm perfectly honest I don't believe in either.

I'm sorry that this has been your experience, K. As Christians, we are to be an extension of God's grace. It seems as though you haven't received much of that, and for that, I'm sorry. Christians can be some of the most judgmental people I know.

On the whole, my church is very accepting of anyone. We're all sinners... every one of us. Yet on occasion, I've seen attitudes come from fellow "parishoners" that just floored me. A couple of kids came in one Sunday with pink hair and umpteen piercings.... not exactly what we tend to see on an average Sunday in my baptist church. I admired their courage - because it does take courage to enter a setting where you are so different from everyone else. I made sure to introduce myself and tell them how glad I was that they were worshipping with us. I was truly thankful that they had chosen to enter God's house that day... and that I belonged to the church they chose. But after the service, some of us went out for lunch and a man from my church (not someone who's very involved... shows up a couple of times a month on Sunday, but not involved in the daily workings of the church) was ranting about those kids. Something along the lines of "What on earth were they thinking? They had no business coming into a house of worship looking like that... stupid ignorant teenagers!" My jaw dropped to the floor and his wife quickly apologized for him and told him to hush. I couldn't believe it... and of all the people in that church that day, THIS man was the disgrace. He embodied nothing of the faith that I cling so dearly to... because the Christianity that I believe in sees us all the same. No sin is worse than another, and none of us is immune to it. Each of us needs the grace of God as much as the next person and we're each called to extend that grace to others. This is not to say that I don't take a stand against things that I hear... but I will not judge another man's heart. That's for God to do. What He's called ME to do is to share His love with those around me... to serve them, as Jesus served His disciples when He washed their feet. Well you can't wash feet in a judge's robe... you'll get all tangled up in your own legalism and trip. Sorry... guess I've gone off here, but I hate it when I see "Christians" tearing down others instead of seeking ways to build them up and encourage them... and love them with the love of God. And K... I do believe in hell for those who don't receive God's gift of salvation, but I don't see Him laughing at those who don't choose to accept Him. It's His will that none should perish... I see Him looking at them with love... and tears in His eyes. Those are the eyes I want to see with... eyes of compassion.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Additional thoughts...

Judgmentalism and resentment are powerful relationship killers... but a generous spirit believes the best about another and creates an atmosphere of welcome and safety. It's grace in action... THIS is the Christianity I find in MY Bible...

"Let us stop passing judgment on one another." Romans. 14:13

"Love is always eager to believe the best." 1 Cor. 13:6

"Accept one another then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God." Romans 15:7

Of these three... I think I struggle with the second the most. I'm so much more jaded than I'd like to be. I expect people to fail me. I expect them to not fulfill their obligations. I expect them to fall flat on their faces. What's that famous line? "Don't expect too much and you won't be disappointed?" But that's not love. True love expects the best. It believes the best about someone until it's proven otherwise, rather than making assumptions based on pre-conceived notions and hearsay. A generous spirit builds relationships... but when I refuse to have a generous spirit toward others, I find myself weighted down with suspicion, self-righteousness, and misery.

I pray that God would cultivate in me a generous spirit. I don't want to live life thinking the worst of people. That doesn't edify them OR me.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Your intolerance towards me makes me, the person who is usually tolerant, want to dig my heels in. It makes me want to insist that you respect me and my beliefs, it makes me want to force you to accept me. I don't like intolerance, in any form, but your relentlessness makes me become that which I dislike.


I think one of the greatest challenges for a human being is to exercise the principle that our inner state doesn't have to be affected by other people's opinions and views. We all have different views and opinions, and it takes inner muscle not to feel annoyed, irritated or angry when other people push their views or beliefs. Eleanor Roosevelt said, "No one can hurt you without your consent".

What I am against is your relentless pushing and shoving and insisting that I conform to your rules and to your standards


If we build enough inner-muscle and establish our own spiritual-foundation, then we no longer need to build our emotional lives around the behaviour of others. Re-active people empower the weaknesses of other people to control them, but proactive people make their own rules, based on their own inner-wisdom and compass. In my view, as long as our compass is sufficiently aligned with "Truth", then our rules will naturally be aligned with positive and compassionate principles anyway, regardless of what others think or say. We'll also understand that other people don't have to change before we can experience inner peace. Annoying people who push their views are really positive challenges for the soul. They're like angels in disguise, who can promote a great deal of spiritual growth. We're all down here together as one, and our challenges come in all kinds of different forms. But challenges are what makes the soul stronger.

"It is our willing permission, our consent to what happens to us, that hurts us far more than what happens to us." - Stephen R. Covey
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
dharma,

Your article is well put but it paints Christians with a rather broad brush. MANY Christians ARE "Okay" with that.

But, of course, this is coming from a Christian who's not accepted by a lot of my fellow "Christians", so what do I know? (LOL)
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
From the book of Mod: chapter one verse one:\

Kill em all let God sort out the trash from the good.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Annoying people who push their views are really positive challenges for the soul. They're like angels in disguise, who can promote a great deal of spiritual growth. We're all down here together as one, and our challenges come in all kinds of different forms. But challenges are what makes the soul stronger.

And people who rub me the wrong way are like sandpaper... extremely irritating, but used by God to smooth out my rough edges.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Re-active people empower the weaknesses of other people to control them

(Hope you didn't think I was referring to you personally Dharma. I was talking impersonally about what I believe generally, as was the whole post.)

And people who rub me the wrong way are like sandpaper... extremely irritating, but used by God to smooth out my rough edges

I think that's a great analogy HC. Even though in the midst of things life can seem painful and tedious, at the end of the day, the final picture (i.e. the outcome for our souls) will be smoother, more harmonious and strong, because of the friction we experienced, rather than in spite of it.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
final picture (i.e. the outcome for our souls) will be smoother, more harmonious and strong, because of the friction we experienced, rather than in spite of it.


Albert Camus:
"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was within me an invincible summer."
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Top article.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm glad you reposted this Dharma. A great article with some very good points! We can't all be alike in this world. If we were what a boring place this would be!

I'm different, you're different and i'm ok with that! As for those who are not ok with it, off with their heads! Ok maybe not, I'm a pacivist until I'm pushed so we'll just tell them to sod off!
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
What pisses me off about atheists is not their atheism - atheism is no more or less tenable an act of faith than any other - but their insistence that they should be left alone because they are willing to leave others alone.

Christianity, Islam, to some extent Judaism, are all proselytizing religions. It's fundamental to their nature as religions that they seek to make converts - and the very fact that you deny the existence of god makes you a natural target of their attention. Bitching about christians trying to make converts is like complaining that water is wet.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Bitching about christians trying to make converts is like complaining that water is wet.

Amen!

You wouldn't believe the looks and static I get when I'm sacrificing people's pets or seducing their daughters to serve Our Lord Satan.

Not to mention the used car loans at 10 points above prime.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
Here is a different perspective a friend and I talked about once.

Imagine you saw a woman standing on the edge of a cliff. She is carrying each of her children in her arms but it is foggy up there and she can't always see where she is going.

You see her move straight for the edge. What would you do? Would you call out? Would you run up to her and physically grab her and say, "hey, you're in danger!"..What would you do?

If you are like most people, you would do just about whatever it took to help her from destroying herself and her kids, right? Would you keep her from jumping if she said, "Hey, leave me alone. I know what I am doing. I have every right to do this!" I'm thinking you probably would at least struggle with her enough to save the children.

That is how some Christians feel about non-believers. That they are in danger, that they are taking their kids with them.....and they will do whatever they can to try and keep it from happening, even if it means pissing you off.

Whether this is right or wrong, well can be argued, and has for centuries. But I do believe it is important to understand the passion behind the prodding, witnessing, whatever. Wouldn't you think much less of them if they proclaimed their faith but didn't think you were good enough for it? OR didn't think enough of it themselves to share it with you?

Just something to chew on.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
That is how some Christians feel about non-believers. That they are in danger, that they are taking their kids with them.....and they will do whatever they can to try and keep it from happening, even if it means pissing you off.

Except from the other perspective its more like a fortune teller following you around saying, "Don't do that -- you'll fall off a cliff!" and, "Don't let your kids do that, they'll jump off a cliff!" Though the person is sincere (after all, the fortune telling is free), it's pretty darn annoying (not to mention rude) that someone whose claims you neither believe nor can verify is constantly critiquing your choices.

Wouldn't you think much less of them if they proclaimed their faith but didn't think you were good enough for it? OR didn't think enough of it themselves to share it with you?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the basic tenent of this family of faiths is free will, i.e., you must willingly, with open heart and full sincerity, adhere to its practices and beliefs. Being railroaded, goaded, shanghaied, nagged or even tricked/coerced into the religion has no positive bearing on your spiritual future.

If the proselytizing is causing a negative reaction to the teachings, why continue? i.e., if running and screaming towards people on the cliff is causing jumpers, shouldn't you change tactics?
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
If the proselytizing is causing a negative reaction to the teachings, why continue? i.e., if running and screaming towards people on the cliff is causing jumpers, shouldn't you change tactics?


Don't. Yes.

I am not saying its rational, I am just offering a diff perspective.