Did a construction barge breach the 17th Street Canal levee?

At least one escapee from New Orleans is claiming that case

http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=New%20Orleans
from JoeUser Forums
I cannot confirm the veracity of this, however, about two hours ago, I read a report from someone who had gotten out of New Orleans a few hours before the official evacuation order had been put out, and he has put forward the following claim:

I just learned a construction barge rebuilding the Hammond Hwy bridge at Bucktown broke loose from the bridge and punched a hole in the New Orleans-side of the levee. It is entirely possible that were it not for this incident, the system in the main part of New Orleans aside from New Orleans East and the Lower Ninth WOULD NOT HAVE FLOODED!

And here is a Google Maps Hybrid version of that Bridge area before the flooding and the CNN map of almost the same area, with the levee breach indicated.

I will admit from all I've read over the years that levees and other such defenses have a tendency to fail catastrophically when they reach their breaking point so a two block breach may be the realistic results of such a normal failure of that system. However, if this failure was facilitated by a collision with the construction barge, then this event takes on a new scope as something which may have been harder to prevent through levee improvement.

I am no Bush apologist, but if the barge theory proves correct, then this failure may have still happened with or without the billion dollar improvement to the system, because I don't know that levees are designed to take a such a hit. Granted, there were two other levee breaks of lesser severity in other parts of the city which indicate the system was still lacking.

At the moment, this may all just be idle speculation, however, it did seem worthy of reporting to the rest of you..
9,420 views 22 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Very excellent point, history. But, there were three breaches, last I heard. Possibly the barge merely facilitated the outcome. I dunno. Either way, the funding was denied, so there does have to be some element of accountability for that. Who knows. Had the storm hit with the 175 mph winds that it had approached the coast with, not much would matter anyway.

Right now, there is a critical situation in New Orleans. You cannot beg, then blame the citizens for not evacuating when you did not provide any means to facilitate such evacuation. That's where we are at today. Someone on another thread said he would have walked five miles to get out of there. But, I have a broken leg, and there is no way I would be able to walk five miles. Same for lots of them, but they got no help. Just told people to get to the superdome, which turned out to be a hell hole and death trap.

I'll also bet now that the city is ruined, and the poor are now being bussed out, the rebuilding will be made by wealthy individuals, staking claim to valuable coastal real estate. That's my prediction. Regentrification accomplished by a hurricane.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

Seems to me to be a case of an investigation down the road, not one when people are still trapped.

This will come out soon enough.

Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am sure there will be an investigation, and until that time, a lot of speculations and allegations(including what I have presented here), may be premature.

I do know this though... the reason they were working on that bridge was to make it hurricane proof.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
History, I suggest you read this article from GovExec Link

Very telling.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
The barge was controlled by Bush so Cheney can arrage for Halliburton to get a no-bid contract. Don't you know that is what dabe is thinking?
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
puppy, why don't you get lost. You're following me from thread to thread to trash me. I suppose because I succeeded in blacklisting your sorry ass from my blog. I don't understand this obsession with me by you and guy and whip. It's absolutely bizarre.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
puppy, why don't you get lost. You're following me from thread to thread to trash me. I suppose because I succeeded in blacklisting your sorry ass from my blog. I don't understand this obsession with me by you and guy and whip. It's absolutely bizarre.


I'm not following you and this isn't your post. I am free to comment in them. Keep blacklisting everybody, that way nobody will disprove all your wacky allegations and you can continue to believe them.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm not following you and this isn't your post. I am free to comment in them. Keep blacklisting everybody, that way nobody will disprove all your wacky allegations and you can continue to believe them.


Yes, you're free to comment. You can comment on the original post and add some intelligent comments to subsequent posts. You are not free to come into a blog and trash me for posting what I believe to be relevant. If you don't believe what I post, fine. You're business. The insults are not warranted at all.

And, I blacklist people not because I'm afraid of any debate. I blacklist despicable people who have nothing substantive to add to any conversation, regardless of topic. And, I blacklist those who's only desire is to insult me. I use the blacklist in the manner in which it was intended. Notice, I don't even bother commenting on your dumbass articles, even though I'm not blacklisted. I don't really give a rat's ass what you think or say. And, as I've pointed out in another thread, getting you blacklisted was quite challenging, due to your deviousness. Just give me an excuse to go public with it. Oh please.

And, if you know what I'm thinking you'd know that if I posted it, I'd get banished. I do believe that is really what you're trying to do. You and your rightie buddies.

Karma, this is getting old.............
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
*looks at the last 4 posts and sighs*
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
History, I am really sorry. I kept it on topic. Then ID decides to enter the discussion with nothing but insults. Annoying little cockroach. In fact, I'd like it if you just deleted those last four comments, and this one. None of it adds to the discussion at all.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
The Army Corp believes that the surge topped the levee, washing earth away from the opposite side of levee causing the levee to then catastophically fail.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yes, you're free to comment. You can comment on the original post and add some intelligent comments to subsequent posts. You are not free to come into a blog and trash me for posting what I believe to be relevant. If you don't believe what I post, fine. You're business. The insults are not warranted at all.


Then why do you continue to do it?


And, I blacklist people not because I'm afraid of any debate. I blacklist despicable people who have nothing substantive to add to any conversation, regardless of topic. And, I blacklist those who's only desire is to insult me. I use the blacklist in the manner in which it was intended. Notice, I don't even bother commenting on your dumbass articles, even though I'm not blacklisted. I don't really give a rat's ass what you think or say. And, as I've pointed out in another thread, getting you blacklisted was quite challenging, due to your deviousness. Just give me an excuse to go public with it. Oh please.


I have already given you an excuse. Go ahead dabe, post what you want. I'm waitng to see my "deviousness".
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
The Army Corp believes that the surge topped the levee, washing earth away from the opposite side of levee causing the levee to then catastophically fail.


That's true. And one of the reasons that the city was trying desperately to obtain funding was because the levee system was sinking, as much as four feet in some places. I've seen how water can suck the fill out from behind a simple bulkhead when overtopped. This was not a simple bulkhead, as evidenced by the destruction. It was to keep water out of the city behind it that was at a lower elevation. It was a huge coastal construction project, that Congress refused to fully fund. What a mess. I'm sure there will be investigations, and culpability will be spread over alot of rolling heads.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Further discussion of this article from the referrals(some not particularly kind to myself, but what can you do?)

http://www.rightnation.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=86727
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1027053

The first link has led to the discovery that a Memphis newspaper has started lending creedence to this theory:


Water is also coming in from two gaps encompassing a total of about 500 feet in the Inner Harbor Navigational Canal on the St. Bernard Parish side. Engineers suspect that a barge hit that levee as Katrina's ferocious winds rocked the city.


http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/local_news/article/0,1426,MCA_437_4043364,00.html

They will want you to register to read the story, but if you go to Bugmenot and enter http://www.commercialappeal.com/ to get to the story without the hassle of giving them all your info.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Further discussion of this article from the referrals(some not particularly kind to myself, but what can you do?)


thanks for the links, historyishere. I guess the barge theory is rumor, according to the one blog site. As for bloggers not being particularly kind to people, you don't have to tell me about that. I guess it comes with the territory.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Barge could have crashed through canal's floodwall

Granted, it isn't about the 17th street levee, but this could be where this all got started, and the basis behind the information I passed on. However, the barges in the area of the 17th Street canal are as of yet unaccounted for according to the story.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Granted, it isn't about the 17th street levee, but this could be where this all got started, and the basis behind the information I passed on. However, the barges in the area of the 17th Street canal are as of yet unaccounted for according to the story.


Next we will hear how Bush was controlling the barge by remote control.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
One thing I heard on the radio today was that the floating gambling casinos slammed into the Mississippi coast, causing quite a bit of destruction. I don't know if that's true. I'll try to find some confirmation.

Man, those barges are big suckers. For a storm to slam them onto shore is an amazing testimony of the strength of a hurricane.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
The Casino barges "floated" ashore with the storm surge. The storm surge there was somewhere between 20-30 feet, so one could expect them to rise with the surge, break free of their moorings, and go inland as far as where sealevel is less than that of the height of the surge.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
Engineers suspect that a barge hit that levee as Katrina's ferocious winds rocked the city.

This could mean that the levee system was good enough as long as you move any large object out of the way.

Then again, it still could be possible that even if this didn't happen that the water could have still undermined the leveee and broke, albeit, much later than it originally did.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Photos suggest a runaway barge "may" have contributed to the breach in the Industrial Canal - a barge that should have been moored northwest of the breach ended up southeast of the canal breach in a city neighborhood. Whether it just floated over there after the breach or was part of the reason for the breach we don't presently know.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
I was sort of tenative in my initial reporting of this theory... so I am willing to concede that there are still a lot of things that need to be determined before making a 100% solid claim that the barge smashed that levee.