Random ramblings

can dig the trinity they have - Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu, creator, protector, destroyer.

Wrong order,  Shiva is the destroyer. Trust me.  I am a Catholic, but love the Hindu Religion (as a study)

Oh, I got the secondary order wrong...I'm sorry.  I knew that Shiva was the destroyer, I just listed them wrong.

 

Why do you like Hinduism, DG?  What about it floats your boat?

OK, let me ask you this:

Why do you NEED a religious philosophy to follow? I don't mean this in an antagonizing way, but more as a question of curiosity.

You have moral bearing that has transcended your Christianity and Buddhism and any other belief systems you've adopted, so I don't get the feeling that you need something to tell you what to do.

Do you feel the need to be a part of something larger? Do you seek something that will give you hope? Peace? An afterlife (or at least a reprieve from death)?

What is it about following a religious philosophy that appeals to you?

Do you feel the need to be a part of something larger? Do you seek something that will give you hope? Peace? An afterlife (or at least a reprieve from death)?

I honestly don't know.  I know that it's not anything to do with the afterlife, and I know that it's got nothing to do with peace and hope. 

I think that it's more a feeling of belonging.  Not necessarily to anything larger than myself, but it does have to do with a sense of belonging.  With Christianity, there's a feeling of fellowship when you go to church.  With Buddhism, you go to a temple or to a meeting and you meet kindred spirits, people who think the way you do.  I'd really, really like to have that.   That fellowship, that communion with like-minded people.   That's the one thing I miss about church, having people who were all there for the same reason as I was. 

I'd really like to have somehting like that again.

It's only as deep as YOU need to make it.

Then I'm making it too hard for myself, because it's pretty deep....

Why do you like Hinduism, DG? What about it floats your boat?

The absolute order of things in the world.  Nice to love, impossible to believe.  But then we have our fictions, dont we?

Nice to love, impossible to believe.

That's the issue I had with Buddhism.  I ended up having, I mean.  The stuff about non-violence....nice to believe and easy to do if you're on a hill in a Tibetan monastery...but not so much in the 'real' world.

And yes, we all have our fictions.

That's the issue I had with Buddhism. I ended up having, I mean. The stuff about non-violence....nice to believe and easy to do if you're on a hill in a Tibetan monastery...but not so much in the 'real' world.

Ahhh, therein lies the rub. All religious belief holds at least to some extent the search for something greater (perfection) than we can ever hope to achieve in this life. Personally, I think it's the struggle and how far along our path we make it that counts...not where we are in relation to anyone else. Remember that the biggest difference in religious beliefs is the nomenclature. Most people's faith boils down to a fairly simple concept that holds true for everyone.

but.....I'm a scrapper at heart *winks @ LW* and that just doesn't jive with Buddhism.

This really made me smile, in a nice "that was insightful" kind of way. Of course, I could say something about the Buddhist tradition of Dharma Combat and how fierce that can get, but that's only skipping around the point...

Unlike my JU personna, the real me has a lot of issues with mental aggression and anger. So for me a spirituality that says, "rein it in a bit" has its uses. Karma, by one reckoning, is accumulated habit, so by trying to be more moderate, less combative and more ready to harmonise rather than assert, I gradually become these things... I have, perhaps, a natural head start in a genuine capacity to see both (or more) sides of the story, and a touching (or pathetic) desire to be liked - (depending on your pov... )

And also seeing the other side of the story makes me think perhaps you do need to let rip there and scrap away...

It's all good...

Chaos magick sounds interesting...

Try Judaism.... we have great food

And give up ham, bacon, pork chops, ribs, roast pork with stuffing, sausage, smoked hocks (FABULOUS for seasoning fresh green beans) and deep fried pork rinds with hot sauce?

But you get matzoh balls, brisket, stuffed cabbage and lots more in its place

Unlike my JU personna, the real me has a lot of issues with mental aggression and anger. So for me a spirituality that says, "rein it in a bit" has its uses.

Me too...but just how realistic is it to ask a person to rein in their true selves, to deny their real persona?  To me, that's like building a house of cards on a trampoline..it doesn't take much to bring the whole lot crashing down.  I've tried, I really have....and there are still some Buddhist precepts that I really dig.  I liked it because it didn't ask me to believe in anything that I couldn't find for my own self to be true and because there was nothing really supernatural about it (until you get into Tibetan traidtional Buddhism, that is and then there's all kinds of Taras and prayer flags and ghostly things going on).  However....I'm getting weary of holding in my true self and perching on a Zen cloud.  It's not 'me', y'dig?  I feel like I can't be myself and remain true to Buddhism.

Personally, I think it's the struggle and how far along our path we make it that counts...not where we are in relation to anyone else

I've never really compared myself to other Buddhists because I've never had the physical presence of any Buddhists to compare myself to.   

I can kid myself and say that it's not how well I adhere to any precpet that matters; trying is enough.....but that doesn't last for very long.

Christianity, for me, was where I found fulfillment. I tried to find it in a myriad of other things, athough not necessarily religion, but when my life bottomed out, I had to look up and I found a Savior waiting for me with open arms, in spite of the mess I had made of my life and the things I had done.

I'm not sure how to share with you how real God is in my life. I could spout all kinds of promises from the Bible that have proven to be true in my life... but really, it's so much more than that. It's this peace that I have as a result of my relationship with Him. Regardless of what happens to me, I can have peace in knowing that not only is this life not even close to being all there is... but I also have peace in knowing that He's right there going through all of it with me. I've been through situations and circumstances that I can look back on and I just know -- without a doubt -- that it was God's hand in my life. Of course, my daughter's healing is probably the most incredible way He's shown His power in my life... but there are so many other things too. Even little things... the way He answers my prayers... everything from "The taxes are due and I have no idea where this money's coming from... help!" (and then watching Him provide) to "Lord, my daughter's lying in that bed... and they're telling me that even if she makes it through the night, she might not live... but I know that You have the power to heal her if that's Your will..." and then seeing the amazing way He went above and beyond anything the doctors thought was possible. But then there are times that I'm so broken that I don't even have the words to say.. but still, I find peace inside because I know that He knows... I don't HAVE to say the words, because He sees inside of me and He's right here with me. I guess it's having someone to lean on and realizing that I don't have to make it through life on my own... that He doesn't want me to. When I think of how much He loves me... enough to die on a cross to pay the penalty for my sin... I'm just blown away. No other man would give his life for mine.. then again, He wasn't just some man. Recognizing how much I need Him... not just for my entrance to heaven, but just to make it through life itself... I don't know how to put into words how much I love Him and need Him.

So there ya have it... MY journey to faith. Sorry if it was a bit winded, and blunt... but it's my heart. I really do hope you find what you're looking for, Dharma, and that you find peace.

Try Judaism.... we have great food

I did once, and I didn't do well with it. Besides, I enjoy a nice pork rib too much...


HC, I don't mind you being long-winded; you were talking about your FAITH, girl...it's one of the things that your life hinges on and deserves a lot of description.

I have to ask you this, though: how would you have felt if you had prayed for your child or for your taxes and those prayers hadn't been answered? Would that have put a dent in your faith or caused you to re-assess where you're at?

One of the biggest issues I have with Christianity is all the crap that goes on in the world that god, being omnipotent and all powerful, does nothing about. I just can't accept that free will is the answer to all of it...

Me too...but just how realistic is it to ask a person to rein in their true selves, to deny their real persona?

Not at all realistic, maybe even downright dangerous. I certainly wouldn't recommend it. I'm talking more about me exercising a little self-control from time to time and maybe learning some new, gentler habits to replace the rather tired old ones.

One thing I've taken from Buddhism is the idea of 'noticing' my faults, not agonising about them or feeling guilty, 'sinful' or 'unworthy', but just giving them a kind of sympathetic 'attention'. From something so simple a lot of insights often flow that I feel wouldn't emerge if I were beating myself up about it all. Spiritual practice that lacks a basic kindness for ourselves can cause more problems than it solves. So I start to see my little 'Mr. Angry' go into action, and, instead of seeing myself as this bad person who needs to suppress such 'negative' thoughts and feelings, I just observe the way in which old habits go about their weary dance, the same stimuli giving rise to the same reactions in the same old way, and, very often I can see the funny side of it all.

If you really feel that you can't be yourself and remain true to Buddhism, then you're best off chucking the Buddhism, as you're obviously stuck with your 'self'. There's an old zen saying that if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him! I'm sure I haven't even really begun to penetrate what that means, but what I take from it is this: Religion is a funny old thing. If we dive in there too deeply it can make us abandon common sense and tie ourselves in all kinds of knots. Religion should gently supplement our ordinary everyday experience of the world, not supplant it completely. Once it has done that, it's all gone a little bit weird and we're probably better off without it ('killing the Buddha').

Reading through this again, I'm almost disgusted by the number of words I've used just to say, "Don't worry. Be happy".

One thing I've taken from Buddhism is the idea of 'noticing' my faults, not agonising about them or feeling guilty, 'sinful' or 'unworthy', but just giving them a kind of sympathetic 'attention'

That's what I;ve gained from it too. An ability to self-analyze, almost...to be aware of my reactions and actions without feeling horrible about them and to slowly try to replace those old ingrained reactions with new ways of dealing with stuff.

And give up ham, bacon, pork chops, ribs, roast pork with stuffing, sausage, smoked hocks (FABULOUS for seasoning fresh green beans) and deep fried pork rinds with hot sauce?

Dont forget Crabs and Shrimp!

Oy Vey!

I have to ask you this, though: how would you have felt if you had prayed for your child or for your taxes and those prayers hadn't been answered? Would that have put a dent in your faith or caused you to re-assess where you're at?

Honestly, I can't say with absolute certainty, because I don't think we can know how we will react in any given situation until we're faced with those circumstances in reality. All I can go by is how I felt at the point where I didn't know what would happen. Panic? Yes. Anxiety? Absolutely. But even then, not knowing what would happen, I was willing to let God be God and I was determined to see Him glorified no matter what happened. Here's an excerpt from a letter I sent to my church family a couple of days after the fire, when J's life was hanging in the balance.

"Our prayer is that whatever happens in this situation, Jesus Christ will be glorified. We know that He will sustain us, and we’re giving Jasmine to Him, releasing her into His care. Regardless of what the future holds for all of us, or how long the road may be, in the end, Jesus is still Lord. His name will be praised and exalted. God is sovereign and all-powerful. At this point, that’s all we can be sure of, and we trust in that."

It wasn't easy to place her life into God's hands and ask Him to do as He saw fit. I actually struggled with prayer for quite a while. I didn't know what to pray for, or if it would even make a difference (and I had been a solid believer in prayer my entire life). Yet here was my problem: I believe that God is sovereign, and that He will do as He wishes. Knowing (or believing) that, I often wondered what's the use in praying? If He had already decided what her fate would be, then why should I bother? Would my petition change His mind? Then He wouldn't be sovereign, would He? And is it arrogant to think that I could change His mind and alter His plans? Or does that just mean that He IS compassionate, caring about the cries of His children? It was such a wrestling match!

As I was trying to come to grips with these thoughts, I got a call from two nuns from a local convent (in Boston - I didn't know them personally). They said they just wanted to tell me that they knew prayer could be tough for someone in my situation, and they wanted me to know that they were praying FOR me, so that if I couldn't find the words, it was ok. They were interceding with God on my behalf. *tears* I felt as if God were speaking directly to me through them. It didn't matter that I didn't have the words... that I didn't even know what to pray for. He was providing in a way that I never would have expected (He's done that a lot in my life *s*). I also came to realize that it didn't matter what I had to say to Him, He wanted to hear my heart, and I could find comfort in laying it all out there for Him. He knows it anyway... and so it was more for me than for Him, but it gave me release.

There's a certain comfort for me now in knowing that He's in control. Being a first class type A control freak, that was tough for me at first, but my experience has been that there's a certain freedom in knowing that it's not all up to me. On the one hand, it's pointless to worry about things I have no control over (will the schoolbus crash on the way to that field trip in the next state over? Will terrorists take out the Empire State Building? Will I be diagnosed with lung cancer next year?). Not only that, but in recognizing that certain things are out of my control, I'm relieved from some of the responsibility that I tend to weigh myself down with.

Bad things happen to good people all the time... and for no apparent reason. Yes, free will comes into play and allows us to be evil, as much as it allows us to be good, and we all can become victims (or perpetrators) of that. I also think that we aren't able to see the big picture (and God is). There is so much more at play than we can grasp. It's like looking at the underneath of a needlepoint. We see all the messy tangles of threads, as our lives intersect one another (good and bad)... but we aren't able to see the finished tapestry and the beauty that results from the apparent chaos underneath. But I think there's more to it than that. I look at this world and everything in it as belonging to God. He gave my children to me to care for - for a time - and yet ultimately, they belong to Him (as does my house, my car, etc). I have had the awesome privilege of raising three beautiful children thus far. If He had decided that He wanted Jasmine to leave this earth and go to live with Him, then I guess that's His prerogative. I think it's easier for me to accept because I live within the scope of Christ's sacrifice for me. If God willingly gave His own Son, to suffer and die on my behalf, then who am I to question anything He does? In my eyes, He's earned the right to act as He sees fit. I recognize that this reasoning doesn't work for someone who's not operating from my perspective, though. I'll have to think some more on this one... wish I had a better answer.

I'll have to think some more on this one... wish I had a better answer.

No, the one that you gave was wonderful! I wasn't trying to be antagonistic, I was genuinely interested.

The reason I asked was because of something the Emperor of Ice Cream wrote a few months back, right after that boy scout who went missing had been found alive and well. His mother had made a statement saying something like "heaven isn't closed; prayers really are answered because we prayed to get our son back alive and that happened"...which made me wonder how in the hell that made jessica lunsford's parents feel when she was found murdered. I wondered if they felt like they had not prayed hard enough, had they not prayed at the right time, in the right way....what they had done that was so displeasing to their god that he chose to not answer their prayers.

It just made me wonder how you might have felt had your prayers not been answered.

" I am created SHIVA, destroyer of worlds"

One of the biggest issues I have with Christianity is all the crap that goes on in the world that god, being omnipotent and all powerful, does nothing about. I just can't accept that free will is the answer to all of it...

Have you ever watched your kids doing something stupid, knowing full well that it was not going to work out the way they thought it would.....and kept your mouth shut? Have you ever allowed your kid to get hurt running through the house because he wouldn't listen to you when you warned him to stop? Have you ever known your child was planning to do something wrong and said nothing until after they did it (even though you could have prevented it?)

Loving our children means teaching them, allowing them to learn from thier own mistakes and not always interviening. While the initial temptation is to protect and defend out children at all cost, the long term benifits outweighs the short term. If we love them, we let them learn. Even if it means skinning a knee, losing a job, losing a friend or getting in trouble. That's how we help them become better people.

He created us. He is our Father. I firmly believe that He holds back because he knows with 100% perfect certianty what will allow us to learn the most. Does that mean He failed when someone becomes angry and vengeful due to the bad things of life? No, they may choose to be spiteful in this life, but with perfect and clear knowlege that comes when we depart our mortal coil....we will see why and how. We will understand that to be happy sheep is not the plan. Even though pain and suffering are involved, sometimes that is part of the plan to make us stronger individuals.

Check my Joe. I feel a digression approaching and I'll move it elsewhere so I don't take over your thread.

Besides, pretty much ever denomination I know of would ask me to accept that the Bible is a complete and whole text, and after reading what I've read I don't believe that it is.

PS My church doesn't accept the Bible as the ONLY source of inspiration from God. Heck, we admit it's true...."as far as it is translated correctly" So don't assume that everyone will try to lock you into a sheep mode.

Check my Joe. I feel a digression approaching and I'll move it elsewhere so I don't take over your thread.

Nevermind. I decided I can't write it until I quit being a hypocrite.

His mother had made a statement saying something like "heaven isn't closed; prayers really are answered because we prayed to get our son back alive and that happened"...which made me wonder how in the hell that made jessica lunsford's parents feel when she was found murdered. I wondered if they felt like they had not prayed hard enough, had they not prayed at the right time, in the right way....what they had done that was so displeasing to their god that he chose to not answer their prayers.

That’s a good point, Dharma. For every testimony we hear about a person’s prayers being answered, we can hear two others about prayers not being answered. I think HC hit the nail on the head with her response:

There is so much more at play than we can grasp. It's like looking at the underneath of a needlepoint. We see all the messy tangles of threads, as our lives intersect one another (good and bad)... but we aren't able to see the finished tapestry and the beauty that results from the apparent chaos underneath.

I'm sure free will comes into it because we’ve freely decided to experience life in a shit-pit, albeit temporarily, with no conscious memory of Home, for an all-wise purpose. (At least this is my belief, as you're probably already aware). Blinks of an eye, these little lives down here, even though the benefits are eternal. In this sense, God wouldn't intervene for obvious reasons.

but just how realistic is it to ask a person to rein in their true selves, to deny their real persona? One thing I've taken from Buddhism is the idea of 'noticing' my faults, not agonising about them or feeling guilty, 'sinful' or 'unworthy', but just giving them a kind of sympathetic 'attention'. From something so simple a lot of insights often flow that I feel wouldn't emerge if I were beating myself up about it all

That’s one of the best things about Buddhism to me. The Buddhism that I've come across teaches us to accept the ‘is-ness’ of life, and of our present state of being, without judgement and without negative connotations. It’s like a complete form of liberation. If you’re feeling sinful, and give into temptation (in whatever form), then accept that that’s ‘where you were at’ at the time. Forgive yourself. God does. If you feel as angry as hell, and spit and fight, and get into trouble, then afterwards don't feel guilty, and don't beat yourself up. Honour your truths, feel your feelings. Love yourself unconditionally. God does. If you're feeling depressed and moody, then let those feelings be. At the end of it, just be self-aware. Whatever we do – ever – it's ‘where we’re at’ at the time. Learning to love ourself unconditionally is a great form of liberation. We're all eternal children of God, even though most the time there's room for spiritual growth. Whatever we do, God loves us unconditionally. I wish more Christians would refer to the story of the Prodigal Son. It's a great story.

I decided I can't write it until I quit being a hypocrite.

Spiritually speaking, hypocrites are about the only people I can admire. If one's system of values and ethics and one's spiritual aspirations are such that you can match them perfectly without ever failing, I don't think they can be that demanding.