What really is in God's Hands?

Um, you do know that this very complex and interesting question has been studied in great detail, and the answers to your questions are readily available, right?

Of course, the answers are pretty complex as well. You might have to do a little bit of research, maybe study up on some things. I understand if you'd rather not go to the trouble. If you like, you can choose to ignore the entire thing, if you think it sounds like too much work. After all, you're a free person.

Anyway, who wants God to be fair? God's standard is absolute perfection. Are you perfect? No. Neither am I. Nobody is perfect. I figure, we're all better off when God lets us slide, gives us another chance to repent.

If I were God, I'd know the past, the future, and the innermost secrets of every human heart. Maybe that's why the real God doesn't always do what seems best to us: He has more information, and knows for sure which course of action will produce the best outcome.

Also, on what sound theological research do you base your assumptions that a) the spiritual will be separated from the physical in the next life, and heaven will be a purely physical environment, with no spiritual aspects? Is it possible you have misread or misinterpreted the relevant passages? Have you considered consulting with the last thousand years or so of philosophers and theological scholars who have looked deeply into this matter? The results of their research can be found in almost any bookstore.

Crime, Violence, Rape, Child Molestation, ect

These very often are learned behavior or have environmental influences.

If you were really god wouldn't it just be more prudent to change the reasons that lead to the evil doers committing their crime, instead of killing them in various ways and letting the cycle continue?

Stutefish,
Thanks for your reply, I always find everyones reply interesting and enjoy reading them.

I recall underneath the subtitle clearly labeling this "Here's My Opinion".... If I would of had lots of theological research put into this I would of provided infomation to back that up. But as it was stated it's my opinion and my own belief system. Honestly this whole blog was started from an email about 9-11 stating how people blame God for letting these things happen. And their proof that God didn't do it was a symbol in the cloud of smoke, a demonic face. I think I briefly mentioned that. Anyway My whole point being is that we tend to rely on God a little bit to much. I was mostly ranting but also trying to make the point that I think we should believe in ourselves more. Instead of blindly believing in some organized religion.

Yes there is lots of Theories and research and blah blah blah probably enough to wrap the world like a pinata. And if there research is so solid why is it still debated... Adam and Eve vs Evolution? On that top logically I'd lean towards evolution... cuz I'd like to think we didn't start from inbreeding. I am certainly not going to spend sleepless nights wondering what really happend, how we really came to be.

As for the spiritual side... my assumption is based on the fact the spirit leaves the body upon death... which is then buried or cremated. Hence good enough proof for me that the body is thus seperated from the spirit. As to taking on another body wouldn't that be reincarnation? As for philosophy and theology... for thousands of years on that topic... thats all fine and dandy, but since they've never died and expierenced death and the spirit form on a first hand basis and then came back to write about it... it's nothing but a theory or an idea when it comes right down to it. Again that's my opinion.

I haven't done any heavy research on anything. I have taken the time to watch the movie what the bleep do we know. They also have it in book. Many sceintist theorys and fascinating thoughts, are covered in that movie/book. www.whatthebleep.com if you want to check it out. I found it fascinating.

As for your suggestion, I think I will go to the bookstore and pick up a few books on theories. It'll definetly be better reading then the common romance novel that I borrow from my room mate when I'm bored. So many things in life that we over look, that have always been at the tip of our fingers.

Thanks again for your post, and feel free to post as many replys as you like.

you sound very bitter and very angry. You got issues. That's my opinion

God's standard is absolute perfection. Are you perfect? No. Neither am I. Nobody is perfect.

No one ever answers my question, and here it is again. How is it possible for imperfection to arise from perfection?

No one ever answers my question, and here it is again. How is it possible for imperfection to arise from perfection?

Ockham, some things are considered imperfect only because we choose to label them as imperfect. “Imperfect” is a subjective notion, but from the Divine point of view, that which we humans might consider “imperfect” might not be imperfect at all.

If God, the Creator, is perfect, then anything which seems “imperfect” to us will have a higher purpose for being created that way, (i.e. a perfectly good purpose), even though that purpose might elude us. It follows that from God’s point of view, in context with the bigger picture, nothing is imperfect at all.

What really is in God’s hands?

Everything is in God’s hands, in the sense that God devised the whole system in the first place. God’s compassionate embrace sustains and underlies everything, and the divine Spirit intimately shares and experiences in everything. Jesus’ crucifixion discloses that God intimately shares in the world’s tribulation and pain. The resurrection demonstrates that death is conquered once and for all, and that eternal life - not death - is the Real Thing.

“In the world you will have tribulation. But be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.” – Jesus, (John 16.33)

Maybe if we as a people understood that 'No it's really not in God's hands', we wouldn't be such dumb little lemmings that follow eachother off the cliff, with out even thinking.

How about this... When you have a friend or anyone that's going through a hard time, save the energy and time you'd spend praying for them, and actually help them. So if your my friend and in a hard time... You'll hear me say, I'm here for you, if theres anything I can do I'll help, let me know.

Everything is in God’s hands, and it’s in our highest interests to think for ourselves, to help our brothers and sisters, to love one another as ourself. God has put us here for a positive and all-loving purpose, and has allowed His children to embark on a journey, which spans many lifetimes – in the Heavenly and earthly planes. We left Paradise in order to taste the fruits of good and evil, because such fruit fosters growth, learning and strength.

We'll if things really are truely in God's hands whats the point of trying in life anyway?

The endeavour of cultivating spiritual wealth, and attempts to exercise compassion and inner-muscle as much as we can, increases the quality of our inner experience in this world and the next, (especially in the next.) To strive to become a more integrated and inwardly secure soul is something that’s worth trying for.

Those damn people that blew up the Twin Towers... I would of just pulled of a miraculous lighting storm that struck there van and killed them all as they were pulling up.

God provides the beloved with freedom, and allows His children to walk their own path. Due to the risks and vulnerabilities of love’s ‘letting go’, we ought not be surprised to find suffering and tragedy occurring throughout life’s unfolding and growth. Sometimes God’s children can get misguided and wander off course. They can mistake principles such as greed, aggression, or terrorism as “power”.

But love is the greatest power in the universe, and these souls’ corrupt perception of power is really a weakness. ‘Cause and effect’ is a true law in life, and sooner or later they’ll reap exactly what they sow. Nobody can escape the laws of karma, and even though these misguided souls can seem to get away with it in this life, rest assured they’ll have to pay off their debts sooner or later.

(As was noted on another thread: )

The quality of our inner-experience in the afterlife is determined generally by the amount of spiritual wealth we have accumulated on our journey so far. People who have deliberately caused much evil on earth, like Hitler, will experience an inner feeling of darkness and guilt when they arrive in Heaven. They will see the bigger picture and will be aware of the consequences of their actions to others and to their own soul. Their inner-burden will be painful, and oftentimes Higher Forces - with compassionate intentions – will impel these misguided souls to incarnate back to earth, or to another physical planet, in an attempt to `burn off' their negative karma. This is what is meant by “karmic debt”. (It is difficult to balance out negative karma in Heaven, because the challenges don't exist there.) Maybe the paedophile will have to experience abuse as a child, firsthand, in order to balance out their karma.

But even the terrorists, the murderers and rapists are loved unconditionally by our Heavenly Father. When we learn that Hitler will one day become an enlightened, wise, and integrated, soul, (even if it’s in eons and eons time) – more so because of his exploits in his lifetime as Adolf Hitler rather than in spite of it - then we will have a better understanding of the depth and epic scope of the life-plan, all of which is in God’s hands.

No one ever answers my question, and here it is again. How is it possible for imperfection to arise from perfection?

Ockham, some things are considered imperfect only because we choose to label them as imperfect. “Imperfect” is a subjective notion, but from the Divine point of view, that which we humans might consider “imperfect” might not be imperfect at all.

If God, the Creator, is perfect and all-powerful, then anything which seems “imperfect” to us will have a higher purpose for being created that way, (i.e. a perfectly good purpose), even though its purpose might elude us. It follows that from God’s point of view, in context with the bigger picture, nothing is imperfect at all.

What really is in God’s hands?

Everything is in God’s hands, in the sense that God devised the whole system in the first place. God’s compassionate embrace sustains and underlies everything, and the divine Spirit intimately shares and experiences in everything. (Jesus’ crucifixion discloses that God intimately shares in the world’s tribulation and pain. The resurrection demonstrates that death is conquered once and for all, and that eternal life - not death - is the real thing.)

As Jesus said, “In the world you will have tribulation. But be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.”

Maybe if we as a people understood that 'No it's really not in God's hands', we wouldn't be such dumb little lemmings that follow eachother off the cliff, with out even thinking.

How about this... When you have a friend or anyone that's going through a hard time, save the energy and time you'd spend praying for them, and actually help them. So if your my friend and in a hard time... You'll hear me say, I'm here for you, if theres anything I can do I'll help, let me know.

Everything is in God’s hands, and it’s in our highest interests to think for ourselves, to help our brothers and sisters, to love one another as ourself. God has put us here for a positive and all-loving purpose, and has allowed His children to embark on an epic journey, which spans many lifetimes – in the Heavenly and earthly planes. (Incidentally, we left Paradise in order to taste the fruits of good and evil, which fosters more growth, more learning and more strength.)

We'll if things really are truely in God's hands whats the point of trying in life anyway?

The endeavour of cultivating spiritual wealth, and attempts to exercise compassion and inner-muscle as much as we can, increases the quality of our inner experience in this world and the next, (especially in the next.) To strive to become a more integrated and inwardly secure soul is something that’s worth trying for. This doesn't mean to strive to be 'goody-goody', incidentally. It means to try to learn to love ourself unconditionally, regardless of how 'bad' or moody we think we are. As we learn to love ourself unconditionally, we naturally fulfil the divine law to love one another as ourself.

Those damn people that blew up the Twin Towers... I would of just pulled of a miraculous lighting storm that struck there van and killed them all as they were pulling up.

God provides the beloved with freedom, and allows His children to walk their own path. Due to the risks and vulnerabilities of love’s ‘letting go’, we ought not be surprised to find suffering and tragedy occurring throughout life’s unfolding and growth. Sometimes God’s children can get misguided and wander off course. They can mistake principles such as greed, aggression, or terrorism as “power”.

But love is the greatest power in the universe, and these souls’ corrupt perception of power is really a weakness. ‘Cause and effect’ is a true law in life, and sooner or later they’ll reap exactly what they sow. Nobody can escape the laws of karma, and even though these misguided souls can seem to get away with it in this life, rest assured they’ll have to pay off their debts sooner or later.

(As was noted on another thread: )

The quality of our inner-experience in the afterlife is determined generally by the amount of spiritual wealth we have accumulated on our journey so far. People who have deliberately caused much evil on earth, like Hitler, will experience an inner feeling of darkness and guilt when they arrive in Heaven. They will see the bigger picture and will be aware of the consequences of their actions to others and to their own soul. Their inner-burden will be painful, and oftentimes Higher Forces - with compassionate intentions – will impel these misguided souls to incarnate back to earth, or to another physical planet, in an attempt to `burn off' their negative karma. This is what is meant by “karmic debt”. (It is difficult to balance out negative karma in Heaven, because the challenges don't exist there.) Maybe the paedophile will have to experience abuse as a child, firsthand, in order to balance out their karma.

But even the terrorists, the murderers and rapists are loved unconditionally by our Heavenly Father. When we can learn that Hitler will one day become an enlightened, wise, and integrated soul - more so because of his exploits in his lifetime as Adolf Hitler rather than in spite of it - (even if this takes eons and eons to get there), then we will have a better understanding of the depth and epic scope of the divine plan, all of which is in God’s hands.

(What happened there? I thought I've been editing one post)

The difference between Heaven and Hell is quite simple. Heaven is a place where you can still exist in the glory of Him. Hell is where you are removed from God's sight...no love, no joy, nothing but the darkest emotions course through your consciousness.

~Zoo

Hell is where you are removed from God's sight...no love, no joy, nothing but the darkest emotions course through your consciousness

Zoologist, do you believe that hell will be experienced by a soul for ever and ever, without a chance in the afterlife to escape it or be redeemed?

Ockham, some things are considered imperfect only because we choose to label them as imperfect. “Imperfect” is a subjective notion, but from the Divine point of view, that which we humans might consider “imperfect” might not be imperfect at all. If God, the Creator, is perfect and all-powerful, then anything which seems “imperfect” to us will have a higher purpose for being created that way, (i.e. a perfectly good purpose), even though its purpose might elude us. It follows that from God’s point of view, in context with the bigger picture, nothing is imperfect at all.

Uh yeah...that was exactly my point. It was a rhetorical question. Sometimes I feel like I'm dropping a needle on an AndyBaker album or putting a quarter into the AndyBaker machine.

Since all the gods that are dead (may they live forever) are unknown, unknowable, and utterly indifferent to anything we say, do, think, feel, desire, hope for, fear, or dread, each and every one of you is talking out of his, hers, or its ass. All of these questions are forever beyond any answer other than "I haven't got a fucking clue" because there is no place outside of ourselves and the limitations of our existence where something we might call truth could be known.

All truths are true and there is no true truth - but there is an endless supply of opinion, masquerading as fact.

There is no true truth - but there is an endless supply of opinion, masquerading as fact.

I agree with the latter part, but disagree with first part. The fact that something exists, rather than nothing at all, demonstrates there is an ‘Ultimate Truth’. How much our opinions, thoughts, feelings, hopes or dreads etc, are aligned with 'What Is So', depends on our degree of enlightenment, (which I believe is determined by our level of spiritual growth.)

All of these questions are forever beyond any answer other than "I haven't got a fucking clue" because there is no place outside of ourselves and the limitations of our existence where something we might call truth could be known.

In my opinion, that’s not true from the point of view of our heart, which, deep down, already knows “the Truth”. (That’s my subjective point of view. We’ve already discussed principles of subjectivity vs. objectivity in other threads, so I won’t repeat here.)

Sometimes I feel like I'm dropping a needle on an AndyBaker album or putting a quarter into the AndyBaker machine

You’re right dude. It’s all been the same discussion. But it’s a hearty one. There comes a time when we can be silent, and a greater peace can come from silence. In the meantime, it’s all fun and games, and nothing really matters, ultimately. In my opinion an "enlightened view" is a liberating view, and life is somewhat good.

You’re right dude. It’s all been the same discussion.

What I meant is that based on what you know of my views, you might have known what I said was a rhetorical question IF you'd thought about it a nanosecond AND IF you've been actually considering things I've said in the past, but instead it was just a point at which the AndyBaker machine could resume producing from its vast library of pre-recorded content. I suppose that if you are a highly subjective person (which is fine, no rehash from me either) that there's no way for you to consider what others say. If what others say does not also eminate from YOUR heart of hearts, then how can it be real?

You sound programmed - like you enter the discussion already knowing all the answers and are only here to spew them forth when we push the AndyBaker button. If that's true, it's disappointing. I had previously given you more credit - an ability to step OUT of your subjective views to discuss topics on a common ground that doesn't admit one person's reality to the subjugation of anothers'. I hope to find out how wrong that is.

You sound programmed - like you enter the discussion already knowing all the answers and are only here to spew them forth when we push the AndyBaker button

I know what you mean Okham. I don't like reading my own posts, because they make me cringe. But I'm entering the discussion knowing my own points of view, and those views shape what I write. Sometimes they can sound programmed, and sometimes they can sound dogmatic, but that's only because I'm sure about my views. It's not true to say I think I know all the answers, because only God knows all of them. I've already said that I think (and know in my own head), that I'm psychic, which means that some of my answers will stem beyond a 'normal' perception of reality. I treat these perceptions as fact. (For example, the principle that Heaven awaits us beyond the veil of death, and that we freely choose to incarnate in different lifetimes on earth, is a view to me that is correctly aligned with 'what is so'. (There I go again, sounding like a programmed robot.) Even though to other people, such views might sound like wishful thinking.)

I had previously given you more credit - an ability to step OUT of your subjective views to discuss topics on a common ground that doesn't admit one person's reality to the subjugation of anothers'. I hope to find out how wrong that is.

I don't know what you mean here dude. All I've done is attempted to answer your question, . . .

No one ever answers my question, and here it is again. How is it possible for imperfection to arise from perfection?

. . . I thought it was a good answer, but obviously you disagree?

I suppose that if you are a highly subjective person (which is fine, no rehash from me either) that there's no way for you to consider what others say. If what others say does not also eminate from YOUR heart of hearts, then how can it be real?

I do consider what other people say. At the end of the day, we're all subjective people. As I said in our very first discussion, many months ago, (I keep all good discussions saved in a Word document, because they're interesting to come back to):

"Our human interpretation of anything ‘objective’ is necessarily subjective. This is because our conclusions are necessarily drawn from a finite well of subjectivity (i.e. our human mind). Whilst 'the objective' remains the same, our interpretations and views of it are subjective. Some people’s interpretations of ‘the objective’ will be more aligned with ‘what is so’ than others. For instance, a person who believes that the world is round, would hold an interpretation that is more aligned with “the truth” than a person who believes that the world is flat. "


Oh dear, this is too much like an old record. Apologies friend lad, but I'm trying to clear up these points of view.

. . . I thought it was a good answer, but obviously you disagree?

No, I told you once already. It was a rhetorical question. The answer was IN the question. It is impossible (in my logic) for imperfection to arise from perfection should such perfection truly be the catalyst of all there is.

I had previously given you more credit - an ability to step OUT of your subjective views to discuss topics on a common ground that doesn't admit one person's reality to the subjugation of anothers'. I don't know what you mean here dude.

I mean that for you, there are things you know to be true in what you call your heart. It's actually your brain telling you these things, but that's a whole other argument. Let's just hypothesize that you are "following your heart" as some are fond of saying. You, as you have stated yet again, are sure that "your heart" is right. Ok, let's say it is.

But you also say that "your heart" is subjective to you. Your quote for other readers:

In my opinion, that’s not true from the point of view of our heart, which, deep down, already knows “the Truth”. (That’s my subjective point of view.

Ok, Anj. *My* heart tells me you're wrong. Now what ya gonna do? Whose heart is right in a subjective world? You say yours, and I say mine. By allowing subjectivity to be used in a discussion, this is the situation you relegate yourself to and will continue to relegate yourself to until you use something we can all pretty much agree is true as a support for your beliefs. But surely you knew this? I am asking you to draw upon the things we agree exist to prove, or at least substantiate as feasible and possible, your point of view.

"Our human interpretation of anything ‘objective’ is necessarily subjective.

I'm really done with this debate. Here's an object lesson (pun intended). This is what most of the world agrees on straight from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

-------------------

ob·jec·tive

adj.



   1. Of or having to do with a material object.

   2. Having actual existence or reality.

   3.

         1. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic. See Synonyms at fair1.

         2. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually: an objective appraisal.

-------------------

sub·jec·tive

adj.



   1.

         1. Proceeding from or taking place in a person's mind rather than the external world: a subjective decision.

         2. Particular to a given person; personal: subjective experience.

   2. Moodily introspective.

   3. Existing only in the mind; illusory.

   4. Psychology. Existing only within the experiencer's mind.

---------------------

This orange exists - Objective.

Oranges taste bad - Subjective.

Get it?

And because I tell you in my heart of hearts oranges taste bad, and I know that it is so does not make it so for everybody. My sincere belief in my subjective views does not make them objective, testable, observable facts.

When I read your thoughts written here, I think you are trying to convince the readers that YOUR subjectivity is THE subjectivity we will all come to once we just wake up. If what you're then telling me is that YOUR subjective reality is truly objective reality, then show me your proof so I can see. Wake us all up with frequencies in our range of detection since quite clearly in YOUR mind (shoot, I mean heart) we don't have your quality of sensors. Many of us will be relieved that we no longer need to occupy ourselves with these burning questions just as soon as you reveal the objectivity of your beliefs to us.

There's a catch though. You can't be subjective in your proof. Nor can you use anything not objectively proven and present it as such. You have to use terms we all can agree are like the orange which is clearly sitting there. If you don't, you are asking us to put our own subjective beliefs (which feel just as real to us as yours feel to you) into a trunk and to believe what you believe on the basis that not you, and not your brain, and not your reason or your logic, but your HEART, which is a muscle without a single neuron in it, thinks it is so for some undefineable reason.

Now...is that what *you* do? If I tell you that I believe with all my heart there is no God, will you change your mind about what you believe and see things my way?

I didn't think so, nor would I expect you to.

Oh dear, this is too much like an old record.

Which is what I was trying to tell you. So throw away the record. Your truth might actually BE THE truth. I do not know. But I DO know you aren't going to prove it with that same old stale religious SUBJECTIVE rhetoric, and if you're not out to prove it, then why state it like it's a fact?

PS. This applies to opposite sides of fences everywhere. Religion, Politics, 90% of all JU articles, etc...

Ciao bellos e bellisimas.

When I read your thoughts written here, I think you are trying to convince the readers that YOUR subjectivity is THE subjectivity we will all come to once we just wake up. If what you're then telling me is that YOUR subjective reality is truly objective reality, then show me your proof so I can see. Wake us all up with frequencies in our range of detection since quite clearly in YOUR mind (shoot, I mean heart) we don't have your quality of sensors. Many of us will be relieved that we no longer need to occupy ourselves with these burning questions just as soon as you reveal the objectivity of your beliefs to us. There's a catch though. You can't be subjective in your proof. Nor can you use anything not objectively proven and present it as such. You have to use terms we all can agree are like the orange which is clearly sitting there. If you don't, you are asking us to put our own subjective beliefs

I think you've misunderstood where I'm coming from. I'm not asking anyone to believe anything, and neither am I trying to prove anything. I'm just a dork sitting at a PC sharing my points of view. There's no need for conflict or friction.

*My* heart tells me you're wrong. Now what ya gonna do?

That's harmonious with the point I've been making, that we all have different points of view. As long as we find peace with our own model of the world, then that's what counts. I've been more interested in the nature of the Infinite and our place in the bigger picture, rather than the taste of oranges. I've learned that due to the nature of Ultimate Reality, inner peace is a natural by-product once we possess an enlightened view of the world.

Psychic intuition and spiritual awareness are states of consciousness, which unfold naturally as we grow spiritually. (This is why such heightened awareness is necessarily subjective, at least whilst we’re down here in human form.) In the words of Jospeh Benner, “Spiritual growth results in an expansion of consciousness and opens up a new world, one of which previously the seeker had been wholly unaware, although it had always been present awaiting his recognition.”

I said "whilst we’re in human form", because I'm aware that in the afterlife our perspective of reality is totally different to our point of view down here. In the hereafter, no one will be able to doubt God’s existence, and no one will doubt the principle that life continues after death. Yet it’s within the human potential to know such things whilst still on earth. As Jesus said, “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.”

Esoteric knowledge and higher spiritual truths are what I refer to as the “wisdom of the heart”, which transcends the intellect alone. Regarding these deeper issues of existence, we all have different points of view and opinions, simply because we’re all at different stages of spiritual growth. I believe that the Truth strikes a chord with the heart, and with the head, when we're ready for it.

Yet these are all simply my views, and I share them with integrity. I'm not asking anyone to think anything, or to believe anything. I think it's healthy to hear different points of view.

So throw away the record.

That might be wisest thing for me to do, Ock, because I'm probably sounding too dogmatic here. I'm also repeating myself, and I might be causing more friction than otherwise. Still, it's all good stuff in my view.

Zoologist, do you believe that hell will be experienced by a soul for ever and ever, without a chance in the afterlife to escape it or be redeemed?

Hmm...I'm inclined to think that eventually there may be a chance for redemption...of course, it's all speculation.

~Zoo

I've learned that due to the nature of Ultimate Reality, inner peace is a natural by-product once we possess an enlightened view of the world.

Tell me the nature of ultimate reality. By what mechanism does the inner peace become produced (as a by product). Throw in your definition of "natural" as you use it here, also, please.

Psychic intuition and spiritual awareness are states of consciousness, which unfold naturally as we grow spiritually.

Are you claiming the sufficient spiritual growth to state that as a fact?

I said "whilst we’re in human form", because I'm aware that in the afterlife our perspective of reality is totally different to our point of view down here.

You're aware of what the afterlife is like from personal experience? That seems impossible since I'm guessing you're still alive.

Yet it’s within the human potential to know such things whilst still on earth.

I haven't personally seen proof of that either. I've heard a lot of stories. I'm willing to say that I hope you're right.

Esoteric knowledge and higher spiritual truths are what I refer to as the “wisdom of the heart”, which transcends the intellect alone.

The "wisdom of the heart" is a subset of your intellect.

I'm not asking anyone to think anything, or to believe anything.

Sometimes they can sound programmed, and sometimes they can sound dogmatic, but that's only because I'm sure about my views.

Hmmmm.

There's no need for conflict or friction.

There is every need. Ever try to live without them?

Tell me the nature of ultimate reality. By what mechanism does the inner peace become produced (as a by product). Throw in your definition of "natural" as you use it here, also, please.

The ultimate dimension of reality is Spirit. Our existence is no accident. Life has a deeper purpose, and death is not the end. When we die, our soul continues to experience life in Heaven, and we freely choose to incarnate on physical planes such as earth as many times as we like. (etc. I’ve described this in more detail on other threads, so won't repeat it all here.)

This is the nature of ultimate reality. Due to the natural laws of spiritual growth, it’s humanity’s destiny to eventually awaken to the larger truths of life. This growth is “natural”, in the sense that our consciousness and spiritual awareness unfolds and blossoms, just as a flower unfolds and blossoms naturally. (The Buddhist sutra of the lotus flower is good metaphor for humanity’s spiritual blossoming.) Inner peace is a natural by-product of such spiritual awakening, because the basis of our existence is rooted in infinite security and in the unconditional love of God. To be aware of such principles will naturally provide a better sense of inner peace, greater self-worth and security.

Psychic intuition and spiritual awareness are states of consciousness, which unfold naturally as we grow spiritually.

Are you claiming the sufficient spiritual growth to state that as a fact?

Apparently I am. Either that, or I’ve taken a crude ‘quick route’ to heightened spiritual awareness by being born a ‘freak’ psychic. But as far as I’m aware I’ve taken the long route, and have got here after living many lifetimes.

You're aware of what the afterlife is like from personal experience? That seems impossible since I'm guessing you're still alive.

Psychic ability comes in many different forms. The model of the world that I’ve described on these threads - that we abide in Heaven, and choose our lives on earth etc. - is a view shared by many psychics. Some of these psychics have been gifted with the traditional ‘sixth sense’, which enables them to see the vibrational energy of people living in the spirit world. Or it enables them to receive information from deceased spirits. My psychic gift happens to come in the form of acute inner-intuition. Since I was young I knew that God exists. I knew that there was deeper meaning to life. This wasn’t merely ‘belief’. It was knowledge. But this ‘broad stroke’ conviction lacked details. My time of clarity came when I began to read books written by other psychics, who all described details such as those I’ve shared. As soon as I read them, I knew that this was the truth – a description of the way things really are. Every fibre of my being resonated, and my soul’s inner-wisdom awakened.

I haven't personally seen proof of that.

Some things are secret for a reason. It’s all part of the divine plan. As we spend most of eternity in the Light, our souls need to know what it feels like to experience “darkness”. Our earth-lives provide perfect opportunities to do this. Once we have tasted the darkness, and have eaten to satiation the fruits of so-called good and evil, we can better appreciate the Light, which is our eternal heritage.

The "wisdom of the heart" is a subset of your intellect.

It’s a subset of our consciousness. Consciousness stems deeper than most people are aware. The soul is the core of our being – a deeper form of consciousness which vibrates at similar frequencies to our Heavenly home. (“The Kingdom of God is within you”, as Jesus said.) Wisdom is soul-knowledge, and when a person reaches a certain degree of spiritual growth, their soul-consciousness blossoms and enables their mortal ‘brain-consciousness’ to become enlightened. Deep down, the soul always contains the truth about God and the blueprint for our lives. But most of us are fast asleep.

The next phase of human evolution is psychic intuition and spiritual awareness. We can't escape the laws of growth, and humanity, as a ‘global consciousness’, will eventually become aware of these larger truths of life. Naturally, to those who aren’t ready, such a model of the world will seem like wishful thinking, and those who believe in it might be considered misguided.

There's no need for conflict or friction.

There is every need. Ever try to live without them?.

There comes a time when we have enough of conflict and friction. We feel that we’ve experienced enough of it, we’ve grown enough because of it, and in turn we begin to seek inner peace and harmony. Feelings of conflict and friction stem from within, as does inner peace and harmony. Our inner state doesn’t have to be governed by our external conditions or by other people's opinions. We possess the power to overcome any problem from within. Whether we can (or do) or not, generally depends on our level of spiritual advancement. In the meantime, along the way, friction and conflict is inherent to the human condition, and as you rightly say, we can’t live without it.

Yet even though friction exists for an all-wise and beneficent purpose, it’s possible for us to overcome it. Humanity’s struggles for ‘survival of the fittest’, ‘might is right’, and ‘possession-power’ etc. are natural phases of our evolution. Our real power is rooted in love, compassion, forgiveness, understanding etc. - fruits of the Spirit. Whilst these are our true strengths, however, we as a human race aren’t yet developed (or evolved) enough to exercise them in full. We don't possess enough spiritual wealth or wisdom. But it will come in its own time, when we've matured somewhat.

As the philosopher in Ecclesiastes said, “There is a season and a time for every purpose under Heaven.” (Ecclesiastes 3.1)

How do you use this intuition in life? Have you applied it to a career? Have you started a church of some sort? Do you provide guidance for solving crimes or what? You don't use it to interpret the questions I ask, that's for sure.

Has your acute inner intuition told you who I really am yet?

For reference, this is a question about patterns - my peculiar specialty that I'll describe later if you like, though there is nothing supernatural about it. Do you know about "different voicings?" Describe what you know.

Name one element that your acute inner intuition tells you is missing from your own perfection. Expound on why it keeps you from perfection.

Tell me what your intuition has revealed to you is the purpose for this cycle of your planar manifestation. What are you here to do/learn?

Give me an example of your clarity by bending all of your acute intuition on what I'm asking and then answering it. Unfortunately, that's a bit of a test, but I'm trying to take you at your word, and if I can, it shouldn't be an issue.

How do you use this intuition in life? Have you applied it to a career? Have you started a church of some sort? Do you provide guidance for solving crimes or what?

It’s ‘used’ as an integral part of my daily life. The fact that I possess this inner-intuition is out of my hands. But it’s shaped who I am as a person. I'd like to think that it enables me to be used by God as a loving and peaceful instrument in a harsh world. One thing that it shapes is that I pray for three hours a day, (i.e. three separate sessions). This isn’t a dogmatic ritual that I have to force, incidentally. It comes as naturally to me as eating. It’s just a personal thing, and I if I don’t pray or meditate then I don’t feel complete.

It’s also “applied” daily in the sense that I’m unusually laid back in life, as those who know me would testify. I have an uncanny ability to remain unperturbed in the face of calamity. This ranges from simple situations such as dealing with so-called stressful situations at work, (I’m a software developer, by the way), to a time when my car’s tyre blew out on the motorway. Travelling at 70mph the car went hurtling off the motorway into a ditch. But throughout the experience, all I could feel was a deep sense of peace, and a prayer running through my head: “This is in your hands, Father. What will be will be.”

From the soul’s reckoning, nothing really matters, ultimately. My personality seems to be unusually aligned with this deep seated soul-knowledge. It's true that we’re all safe in God’s hands, and there’s nothing at all to fear. That’s just the way it is. Whether we’re aware of this or not is another matter.

Has your acute inner intuition told you who I really am yet?

You’re a spiritual being who has embarked on a sacred journey. You’re a beloved child of God, a truly magnificent creation, and you’ll exist for all eternity. That’s all I know about you, to be honest. It's who you really are. I don’t know much about your personality though, as I haven’t known you long enough, (if writing in JU can be classed as “known”.)

For reference, this is a question about patterns - my peculiar specialty that I'll describe later if you like

Yes, I’d love to hear about it. What’s your speciality? When you say “patterns”, is your field of interest psychology? I’d be interested to you’re your views on my patterns?

though there is nothing supernatural about it.

There’s nothing supernatural about anything, at the end of the day. Everything is ‘natural’, including God. Psychic ability is natural. It just varies in degree from person to person. The more lifetimes we live, the more our psychic faculties unfold and the more spiritually aware we become. It’s a natural process of growth. It’s true that some people are born ‘freak’ psychics, and haven’t necessarily grown to such degrees of psychic unfoldment at all. But most of us will get there eventually in one lifetime or another, if we incarnate enough.

Do you know about "different voicings?" Describe what you know.

I don’t think I’ve heard of that one before. What is it?

Name one element that your acute inner intuition tells you is missing from your own perfection. Expound on why it keeps you from perfection.

We’re all perfect in the eyes of God, just as we are. From an earthly point of view, we might have imperfections. Yet whether one perceives things as “imperfect” or not is subjective. I believe that in the highest sense, everything is perfect. We’ve all been created by God, so I’m perfect, just as you are perfect.

Tell me what your intuition has revealed to you is the purpose for this cycle of your planar manifestation. What are you here to do/learn?

A primary purpose is to build spiritual muscle and to advance spiritually. That’s the same for us all, and it’s a universal purpose that we all share. Other than that, many of us have different life-themes and different reasons for incarnating. Some people have karmic debts to pay off, others have addictive tendencies in their personalities to overcome etc.

I’ve just finished writing a book called ‘Christianity Coming Home’, which I’ve been writing for 8 years. Whether it’s one of my purposes to get it published in order to share a deeper interpretation of Christian fundamentals, I don’t know yet. That’s in God’s hands, and time will tell. If in the end the book doesn’t get published, then I’ll accept that it was destined to be a nice hobby, and I’ll have learned a lot from my research and from the writing on a personal level. (I don’t express my Christian views on these threads, incidentally. I’ve had my fill of writing about them in my book, so JU gives me a good break from it.)

What do you think your purpose would be in your incarnation this time round Ock? Even if you don’t believe in it, treat it as a hypothetical question.

Give me an example of your clarity by bending all of your acute intuition on what I'm asking and then answering it. Unfortunately, that's a bit of a test, but I'm trying to take you at your word, and if I can, it shouldn't be an issue.

It’s not an issue with me. Whether other people have issues with what I write is out of my hands. I think it’s nice to share points of view and to hear other people’s views in JU. For the record, I rarely speak to people outside of here about this “inner-intuition”, unless people ask me about it specifically. I’ve learned that it’s wise to walk the path than to talk the path. JU is my time of release, in the sense that it enables me to verbally express my views, which makes a pleasant change.

Regarding your questions, I answer them as honestly and as best I can. I’m not sure if I answer them very well, but I’m sure you’ll let me know one way or another. If they’re different to your original direction of intent, then we might be coming at it from different wavelengths, or at least different angles. It’s all good stuff either way, because different views make life so rich. We can have a delicious conversation nonetheless. (Although maybe your ‘orange’ analogy might come into play, in that sense?)

I think we've jacked this thread long enough. Send me email at [email protected]. From there I'll send you my real email address, and if you care to explore this diversity further, we can. A real-time conversation on the subject might be even better, but we can discuss that later.

Ciao,
Ock

Thanks Ock, I'll drop you a line some other time. Yet again I've re-read that last post, and my God I make myself cringe. It's no wonder I keep this shite to myself. It all sounds so clinical and programmed. I'm going to have to jack this stuff in sometime soon and stick with the silence. It's horrible, man. I'd hate to be someone else reading my posts

The interesting bit here is how selective people can be about God... A woman drops over from a heart attack in a chapel praying for her dying husband, the doctors bring her back from the brink of death... She credits God for saving her life (to hell with the science right?) yet skips over the blame for the heart attack in the first place!

With that logic I should be able to rob her... then give her back 80% of her money and she would thank me for it?