No Matter How Much You Give, It's Never Enough

The Psychology of Greed

Not long ago, LW blogged about her neighbor, now moved on to warmer mooching pastures. LW had done everything she could to help this neighbor out (enough so, in fact, to have people accuse her of being "Christian" on enough occasions for her to blog about THAT). But what LW brought out in her experiences is the psychology of greed, the fact that no amount of giving is ever enough.

And it was followed up with another self deprecating "America Sucks" article that insisted that we as Americans need to impoverish ourselves to ease our guilt over the plight of the rest of the world; otherwise, any amount of planes driven into our skyscrapers is morally justified. Ironically enough, THAT blogger overlooks the fact that 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers came NOT from an impoverished nation, but in fact, from one of the wealthiest nations in the world, where the CITIZENS of that country live in a virtual welfare state because of the insane amount of their oil royalties (as a sidenote; if you've got enough money to send clandestine terrorists to all points of the globe, to finance flight school, to purchase false passports and ID, you could probably do a lot to eliminate the human misery you claim to despise). The WTC attack was NOT a desperate lash out by starving nations, it was a hate filled ideological attack by Muslim extremists bent on dominating the world with their own radical interpretation of Islam (an interpretation, it must be said, not shared by most other Muslims).

But, at the risk of digressing too much, I will return to the topic at hand. The problem with an entitlement mentality is that it is always seeking more without asking how it can give something BACK. Don't believe me? Take a look at the lines outside the local food bank. Take a look at the lines again in another year. They'll be conprised chiefly of the same faces; all with a variety of excuses about how they are unable to find self sustaining, gainful employment.

You see, "enough" is never enough. Other nations will never become self sufficient if they always have a rich uncle from which they can beg another billion. And we will not become a stronger nation by giving it to them.

Suppose we gave away all this nation's wealth tomorrow, what then? If we put every American in poverty for the sake of the world, we would find the money soon squandered and a world worse off because, when the next tsunami hits, the other nations will find themselves without a well heeled economy on which they can rely.

What we must do, then, is not buy IN to the psychology of greed. There are enough articles written on how other nations are diverting funds meant  for the starving into the pockets of the well heeled for me to not need to rehash them here. Simple use of Google's search tools will net you the results you desire without my assistance.

Any foreign aid given to these countries should be privately funded, should be temporary, and should be contingent upon those nations adopting and implementing a long term strategy for self sufficiency. Anything less is not helping them; it's DESTROYING them.

4,602 views 26 replies
Reply #1 Top
Darn it. I forgot who wrote the original blog, but it was pointed out by someone that the money we pour into Africa hasn't changed anything. You can't just dump money onto a problem and expect it to be solved. You are right about the returning faces on welfare lines. Giving people just a tiny bit to "tide them over" just makes them want to come back for more.
Reply #2 Top
once you take away a persons personal power by constantly subsidising them they are forever lost {for the most}
Reply #3 Top
there is a 'rich uncle' to hit for a handout


Fuck your an idiot. Is this another part of your trillions and billions argument. Learn the facts shit head. Yanky doodle dandies dont give anything away. They take, take, take. The more yanks dead the better i say.
Reply #4 Top
Fuck your an idiot.


Oh, how sweet is this! You're calling HIM and idiot, yet you have yet to learn the difference between 'your' and 'you're', something that most people learn in the 5th grade.......hahahaha!

Nah, dude....YOU'RE the idiot.
Reply #5 Top
there is a 'rich uncle' to hit for a handout


Fuck your an idiot. Is this another part of your trillions and billions argument. Learn the facts shit head. Yanky doodle dandies dont give anything away. They take, take, take. The more yanks dead the better i say.


Just maybe you should join them!
Reply #6 Top
And it was followed up with another self deprecating "America Sucks" article that insisted that we as Americans need to impoverish ourselves to ease our guilt over the plight of the rest of the world; otherwise, any amount of planes driven into our skyscrapers is morally justified. Ironically enough, THAT blogger overlooks the fact that 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers came NOT from an impoverished nation, but in fact, from one of the wealthiest nations in the world, where the CITIZENS of that country live in a virtual welfare state because of the insane amount of their oil royalties (as a sidenote; if you've got enough money to send clandestine terrorists to all points of the globe, to finance flight school, to purchase false passports and ID, you could probably do a lot to eliminate the human misery you claim to despise). The WTC attack was NOT a desperate lash out by starving nations, it was a hate filled ideological attack by Muslim extremists bent on dominating the world with their own radical interpretation of Islam (an interpretation, it must be said, not shared by most other Muslims).


Not that you care, but I've just lost a lot of respect for you. I did not say that "America Sucks", thank you very much. Nor did I say that we need to impoverish ourselves. The point was...for most of us...what's an extra $5? What's an extra minute to help grandma cross the street? It's jack, that's what it is, just a little bit to help another human being.

You've just lost a reader...again...not that you care.

Fuck your an idiot. Is this another part of your trillions and billions argument. Learn the facts shit head. Yanky doodle dandies dont give anything away. They take, take, take. The more yanks dead the better i say.


Ummmm...I think Gid is one of the better and most informed writers on JU...so...whatever, dude. The language is uncalled for, but might have been a little acceptable had you made ANY sense. Did you live under power lines when you were a child?
Reply #9 Top
The point was...for most of us...what's an extra $5?


This, however, is a logical paradox. It infers that at any level of giving, it should never be hard to give a bit more. But once you decide to give that little extra amount, the same argument still holds. Therefore, the logical extrapolation of this idea is that you give away everything, leaving nothing for yourself. Since this is undesirable, you must therefore set a limit to what you will give at a level with which you are comfortable.
Reply #10 Top
This, however, is a logical paradox. It infers that at any level of giving, it should never be hard to give a bit more. But once you decide to give that little extra amount, the same argument still holds. Therefore, the logical extrapolation of this idea is that you give away everything, leaving nothing for yourself. Since this is undesirable, you must therefore set a limit to what you will give at a level with which you are comfortable.


This gets you one of my daily insightfuls! Excellent response!
Reply #11 Top

once you take away a persons personal power by constantly subsidising them they are forever lost {for the most}


The are lost until you turn the flow off
Reply #12 Top
You are so right. But it seems that so often, to appease the liberals, we keep tossing money down the bottomless pit of social services, both here and abroad. Heaven forbid we expect the donees to take some responsibility; some people might criticize us if we do!!! Oh no!!!

Some say love is giving people what they want. I believe it's giving them (or withholding from them) what they NEED for their long-term good, as you mention near the end of your post. If they squander it once, give them another chance and tell them it will NOT be repeated. If they squander it again, too bad.
Reply #13 Top
#10 by little_whip
Thursday, August 11, 2005


You deserve a big smooch! A burger, curried chicken....whatever you want! I just can't understand why some people think the way they do and I've been awaiting your response lady!
Reply #14 Top
Not that you'll see this, Marcie, but I notice that you failed to address a single point Gid made, other than the "america sucks" bit.

He is correct on EVERY count. The masterminds behind 9/11 were not poor, starving people, and they did not attack us because they want what we have.

They attacked us because they hate what we are. A free, prosperous, and predominantly Christian nation. They would have us all under Allahs thumb, (or at least their version of Allah) shoved back into the 12th century, living like animals.

They would have us stoned for adultery, dismembered for shoplifting, executed for blasphemy or criticism of our leaders. They would have us women cloaked and cloistered, uneducated and ignorant.

How much money do these Saudis give to poor starving people in Sudan? How much grain have they airlifted to famine struck regions? How many billions have they invested in vaccines, clinics, AIDS prevention in Africa?

The fact that you even asked the question.."did we deserve 9/11" gives me the impression that you just might think we did. If you weren't entertaining that possibility, you'd have felt no need to even ask.

If you are feeling guilty for having so much, Marcie, all I can suggest is that you give it all away and join the Peace Corp or become a missionary.

Do your part before condemning others and justifying their deaths for the heinous crime of being born in a prosperous and powerful nation.

How much money have you sent to "Feed the Children" this month, hmm? How many televisions, CDs, and video games do you own? How many shirts? How much food do you throw away because it's leftover, or it didnt come out quite right?

After reading that article, and Ziggys outrageously judgemental and snotty remarks (again, about disabled people, what the hell does he have against the disabled anyway? He sure seems to bitch about them a LOT) I take back what I said about him last week.

Marry the fool, if he'll have you. You deserve each other.


Not that you'll ever read this, or that you'll care, but I've also just lost a bunch of respect for you.

Did people deserve to die because people hate what American stands for? Hell no. I didn't say that. The point was that I can see how people outside our borders can hate us for what we have and don't share. Nations and people that receive aid from us might look at us as some sort of god...and then when the tummy is empty again...GRRRRRRRR...you know?

Gideon's right....9-11 wasn't about the hungry. It was about Islamic people being pissed about our ideals as a nation. And the places they chose to take out were very symbolic--the WTC--our financial might....the pentagon--our military might. It wasn't "Oh look...I see a landmark, let's hit it!". They were VERY intentional. And Gid's also talked about some things that I hadn't thought of before...if these groups can send these terrorists here to live and go to school, etc...they've got to have loads. I never thought about that.

But now that 9-11's happened...that they kicked us and made us fall to our knees...who's to say what' might happen? I'm not saying we should be all paranoid and live in fear, but we're not indestructable anymore. We got pushed off our high horse where we thought no one could EVER do anything to us.

I didn't condemn ANYONE. And I try to do my part, but like everyone else....I have to get to work, too. But on my way to McDonalds...when I see that guy on the street who's really skinny and looks like he needs a break....couldn't I really just get him an extra sandwich or two so he can be happy and full for a night? I didn't say "OMG...Sabrina told her grubbing neighbor Tonya to shove off and she deserves to DIE!" No. I didn't say that at all. You have to take care of yourself before you can take care of other people.

And that's what we should be doing here in our country. There's kids out there who are hungry and need medical care. There's always that guy out there on the street that could use a good meal. I'm not saying give up everything you have and follow me. I'm saying do what you can to help other people.

And as for Ziggy...that's HIS blog. Not mine. And he can write whatever the heck he wants to on it, free from what I think or feel about the topic. I do NOT judge you by what Simon writes, and I would appreciate it if you would do the same. If you have an issue with what I wrote, that's fine. But Ryan has absolutely nothing to do with this, and your snide remarks really aren't necessary.
Reply #15 Top
You deserve a big smooch! A burger, curried chicken....


I'll take the smooch if your teeth are sweeter than my British Hubby's...heheh.


probably not...
Reply #16 Top
Sighs...

Marcie, please take a moment and do something for me. I say this because I have grown to respect you over this past year, and some of the things you said in that article truly shocked me. Here's what I want you to do...

I want you to go back the article in question, go over your own responses, and count how many times you say..."I didn't say that," "I didn't mean that," "That's not what I was trying to say," "Thats not what I meant," and other similar attempts at clarification.

Then I want you to count how many times those declarations were followed by the word "but" or other transitional phrases used to launch into yet another explanation of what you *really meant.*

I said this over there but it bears repeating here. If large numbers of people misconstrue or misunderstand your meaning, the fault lies not with your readers, but with you for not expressing yourself clearly in the first place. Had you done so, you would have spared yourself the aggravation of repeatedly having to clarify that which you should have made clear before you posted the article.

I think you are confused on this issue, a lot of emotions are coming into play, and you really dont know what to think any more.

But the mere fact that you asked the question.."did we deserve 9/11" means that you have at least entertained the idea that we did. And that scares me. The fact that you compare apples to oranges, (poverty and terrorist acts) scares me.

The fact that people like Myrrander are circling like sharks, more than willing to confound the issue for you even more frightens me. (Like his blaming our invasion of Iraq on 9/11, when that is certainly not the case. We invaded Iraq because Saddam flipped us the bird for almost twelve years in regards to weapons inspections, combined with faulty intelligence that led many powers to believe he did indeed have something to hide.)

If you keep thrashing about in these muddy waters, soon you wont be able to see at all. And then you will join the Democrats, take up their America-hating banner, and follow the rest of the mindless, guilt-ridden sheep that would blame the deaths of thousands of Americans on 9/11 on anything but the real culprit. Evil Islamic Extremists who wont rest until they see every one of us dead or converted to Islam.

Ryan does have something to do with it, because his remarks continue to offend me every time I see them. I guess I'll have to train my eyes to just skip over his comments, because no matter what the topic, he seems to twist things around to bash the disabled, and I'm really, really, REALLY getting sick of it. His remarks to that effect over there were totally uncalled for, cruel, and unrealistic.

I'll leave it at that, and try not to take my frustration with him out on you in the future, it was wrong of me to do so and I hope you accept my apology.

But please, think about what you are saying before you hit "submit." Make sure it's *really* what you want to say. If nothing else, it will save you scads of time explaining and defending your position based on erroneous interpretations of what you've said.


Okay.
Reply #17 Top
But on my way to McDonalds...when I see that guy on the street who's really skinny and looks like he needs a break....couldn't I really just get him an extra sandwich or two so he can be happy and full for a night? I


You missed Little Whips blog where she said she stops and gives them money, even tho she is not rich. You are railing at the wrong people. Try Al Gore who gave $375 in charity in 1999. Or Kerry who gave less than 5% in 2003. Dont pick on those who are doing exactly what you are pushing for!
Reply #18 Top
#18 by little_whip
Thursday, August 11, 2005


That is a great soliloquy. And why you are one of the best writers.

Thank you. I hope to see more.
Reply #19 Top
#18 by little_whip
Thursday, August 11, 2005


That is a great soliloquy. And why you are one of the best writers.

Thank you. I hope to see more.
Reply #20 Top
How about other terrorists apart from those who commited 9/11? Were they rich Saudis?

Anyhow as a foreigner I wouldn't say America deserved 9/11. Far from it. But it is still wise to consider whether any of America's actions had contributed to the motives behind these terrorists acts. These people aren't driven by just one motivation, you know.

Also, I wonder how much America's contribution to aid per capita is?

To the religious, I personally feel we should give without asking back. You see there was once this guy called Jesus who did that. So whether or not giving to others would work as a stopgap to terrorism is beyond my consideration. Just give.
Reply #21 Top
Being a consultant I work in a lot of different locales. A couple of times I've had to work in the downtown area where I live. There are a fair number of people asking for handouts claiming to have fallen on hard times. I used to, occasionally, give these people a buck or two. Three incidents have caused me to stop this practise. One day after giving a guy a couple of bucks and walking on I stopped, not sure why, and turned around and watch this guy pull a big, and I mean big, roll of money out of his pocket and start counting it right there on the street. Second, a guy assualted my car as we were pulling away from the curb when my wife picked me up one day. Scared the crap out of me & my wife and almost got him killed because I thought we were being car jacked. All he wanted was a handout. The city these occurred in decided to do something about the problem. Thier solution...make all of these people register with the city. So now they all have id cards. Great. Just great.

On the other hand, I got a knock on the door one morning. There was a guy standing there who did really looked like he had fallen on hard times. He asked for 60 bucks so he could get a bus ticket to somewhere. No I don't remember where. In exchange he offered to wash all the windows on my house. First, and only, time I've ever had someone like this offer to do something in return for what they were asking. I didn't have 60 bucks, nor did I want him on my second floor. My house has a steep roof. I gave him twenty, all I had at the time, to wash the windows on the car. He did a very good job. Maybe I got took. But I hope the guy got to where it was he thought he needed to be.

I'm always willing to help those willing to help themselves. I won't give a plugged nickle to deadbeats. Ben Franklin, who believed in and established a large number of projects for the public good, cautioned very strongly against and about the dangers of welfare systems. Those writings are just as valid today as they were then.

JollyFE

Reply #22 Top

The point was...for most of us...what's an extra $5? What's an extra minute to help grandma cross the street? It's jack, that's what it is, just a little bit to help another human being.

Well, I am sorry to lose you as a reader, Marcie, but the mindset of "what's an extra $5?" doesn't wash. You see, there are literally BILLIONS lined up for an "extra" $5, and throwing money at the problem simply doesn't work.

Look at our nation's ANNUAL BUDGET. Not the DEBT, just the budget. $8566 for each and every citizen in this country. And this doesn't even factor in state, county, and municipal governments. How can you say we're not giving enough when our government's per capita spending (when state, county and municipal governments ARE factored in) exceeds the poverty level for those same citizens?

What will these dependent nations do if our debtor nations decide to call in their debts? I'll give you a hint: starvation and famine will increase exponentially.

Reply #23 Top

Some say love is giving people what they want. I believe it's giving them (or withholding from them) what they NEED for their long-term good, as you mention near the end of your post. If they squander it once, give them another chance and tell them it will NOT be repeated. If they squander it again, too bad.

Very insightful response.

Reply #24 Top

But on my way to McDonalds...when I see that guy on the street who's really skinny and looks like he needs a break....couldn't I really just get him an extra sandwich or two so he can be happy and full for a night?

See, Marcie, I don't disagree with THIS at all.

But if you said "Can't I just go and steal a few more bucks from Bill Gates' wallet to put this guy up in an apartment with free food and clothing?", then I'd have a problem. And, you see, that's really the argument behind entitlements....it's not about the money YOU spend, but about forcing others to spend their money on the same causes.

I can see how your article may have been intended to focus on PERSONAL responsibility, rather than GOVERNMENTAL responsibility, and if that was the intent, then I apologize. But if that WAS the intent, it was not very clearly conveyed in the piece. Just a thought.

Where I took issue with the piece was in the mere POSSIBILITY that we might have "deserved" 9/11. We didn't. Americans are, for the most part, EXTREMELY compassionate and rally quickly (perhaps TOO quickly) when an emotional appeal was made. If that were not so, why would there be a proliferation of "feed the children" infomercials by scam artist "charities" that spend over 50% of their "take" on administration?

 

Reply #25 Top

To the religious, I personally feel we should give without asking back. You see there was once this guy called Jesus who did that. So whether or not giving to others would work as a stopgap to terrorism is beyond my consideration. Just give.

Excellent response. If you were a registered user, you'd have just earned an "insightful".