A few thoughts on the London bombings

from JoeUser Forums
Just to start off, I'll put up a disclaimer to clarify myself: I do not have anything against the victims or their families or ordinary Londoners for that matter, and do condemn this act of terrorism. And I'm not saying two wrongs make a right, or this is an appropriate response.

Terrorism. It seems like this is what will define my generation. However, terrorism has been going on long before 9/11. The only difference is that it used to be commitied by the rich against the poor, us against them.

Of course, that all changed on September 11, 2001. 28 years to the day after the CIA supported a coup in Chile to remove a democratically elected socialist President with a capitalist dictator who killed 3000 Chileans, Osama Bin Laden strikes at the US, killing 3000 Americans. The rest is history. Panic, fear, eroding civil liberties and privacy, bombings, invasions, etc.

and now, the terrorists strike at the public transportation system of London and the people on board. This is a horrible crime and the perpetrators should be put to justice. However, while we condemn the terrorism of others, we both fail to understand them and fail to look in the mirror at ourselves.

"Freedom isn't free" is the call to erode our civil liberties and privacy. We are told by a hawkish government that the terrorists hate our freedom, yet they are perfectly willing to sacrifice our freedom to fight them. Even up here in Canada, a quick look at CBC news shows that they are out to get us, we need cameras watching us, and our Deputy Prime Minister telling us to be afraid. Whenever a government that seems to want to take away some of my privacy or civil liberties tells me to be afraid, I am, but not of who they tell me to be afraid of. And this is before I even get into the section for letters, which is scarier because it is coming from ordinary people, those who (are supposed to) wield power in a democracy.

When fascism comes, it will come wrapped in a flag.

Perhaps we should ask the question "Why do they hate us?" And I mean seriously ask it, not spew out simplistic black and white good vs. evil rhetoric about how they hate our freedom. Or on the flip side, a few of the letters from some (presumably) more liberal writers mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan, however confining the debate to events during Bush's Presidency is simply idiotic. Remember, 9/11 happened before the invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq.

So why do they hate us? Well, let's look at some history of superpowers treating smaller countries as pawns first. Incidentally, England used to colonize and subjugate indiginous peoples around the world. But let's just keep it to the last 55 years and in the Middle East, with the death of classic colonialism, the end of the British empire, and the rise of neocolonialism and the American empire.

1953: Mohammed Mossadegh, a secular Prime Minister of Iran is overthrown and replaced with the Shah in a coup because he had nationalized the oil industry and was a threat to the remnants of the British empire in Iran. Shortly after, the Shah placed the oil industry under the control of an international consortium, which was made up mostly of British and American companies. In 2000, Madeline Albright said that "The Eisenhower administration believed its actions were justified for strategic reasons. But the coup was clearly a setback for Iran's political development and it is easy to see now why many Iranians continue to resent this intervention by America." Resenting American intervention? Could we be getting warm here?

1979: Jimmy Carter and Zbigniew Brzezinski fund the mujahedin in Afghanistan. The purpose of this is to put pressure on the secular Marxist Leninist government and to incite a Soviet invasion, luring them into “the Afghan trap.” Now, inciting a superpower to invade your country might piss you off, eh?

And I’m not even going to touch Israel or the support of various dictators and all around “bad guys” such as Saddam, or anything that happened in under Bush so far.

This bombing was wrong, but given the foreign policy of the West, was it really unexpected? They say if you swat at a nest of hornets, you get stung. I don’t like this analogy because it says “they are hornets, we are people,” but the principles behind it may be accurate.

Perhaps the best way to spread democracy is to stop supporting dictators. Perhaps the best way to fight terrorism is to stop committing terrorism. Perhaps we need to take a good long look at ourselves in the mirror and try to see how we are different from those we condemn. I’m not saying two wrongs make a right, but we need to end the cycle of violence, something that can’t be solved by violence.
2,070 views 8 replies
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
::::Yawn::::: is the class warfare bigotry rant over???
Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
great post
it is the first time I see a western to say this
As a muslim and Arab I agree partially with some of what Manopeace said , but as some one who reads history and know how the things are going in the region I assure you those terrorists don't look to the past and don't take as excuse , in fact if you ask them about their historical data such as the ones you mention , most of them won't know it but the majority of people know it and feel it

These are critical things and if we continue opening old wounds things won't finish ,but we should n't continue openning new ones .for God Sake ,look to the American policies in the region ,in Egypt they seem to go along with president's son to inherit the throne as the opposition is against U.S Policies and Iseral , despite all cons of the Era !!!!!!!!!!
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

Ok, Cannuck, show us why they hate the US.  You provided a lot of evidence of the British squashing them, but none of the Americans.  And nothing, nada, zilch, zip and doodly squat implicating the spanish.

You are typical of the liberals who will not face the fact that Evil exists, and no amount of appeasement will mollify it.

Now bow 5 times towards mecca and kisss your sorry arse goodbye.  That is the only thing that will save your life.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Here are a few quotes from today's news stories in my local paper.
On the video, Al-Arian said, ``Despite all difficulties, the Palestinian people have decided to continue: to continue to confront, to continue to resist, to continue to endure, to set an example for all people and Muslims around them. Thus is the way of struggle. Thus is the way of giving. Thus is the way of sacrifice. ... Thus is the way of jihad. Thus is the way of martyrdom. Thus is the way of blood, because this is the path to heaven.''


Link


The Muslim extremist on trial in the slaying of filmmaker Theo van Gogh confessed Tuesday, saying he was driven by religious conviction. ``I don't feel your pain,'' he told the victim's mother.

Defendant Mohammed Bouyeri stunned the court in the final minutes of his two- day trial, when he said, ``If I were released and would have the chance to do it again ... I would do exactly the same thing.''

``What moved me to do what I did was purely my faith. ... I was motivated by the law that commands me to cut off the head of anyone who insults Allah and his prophet,'' he said.



Link
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Here are a few quotes from today's news stories in my local paper.
On the video, Al-Arian said, ``Despite all difficulties, the Palestinian people have decided to continue: to continue to confront, to continue to resist, to continue to endure, to set an example for all people and Muslims around them. Thus is the way of struggle. Thus is the way of giving. Thus is the way of sacrifice. ... Thus is the way of jihad. Thus is the way of martyrdom. Thus is the way of blood, because this is the path to heaven.''


Link


The Muslim extremist on trial in the slaying of filmmaker Theo van Gogh confessed Tuesday, saying he was driven by religious conviction. ``I don't feel your pain,'' he told the victim's mother.

Defendant Mohammed Bouyeri stunned the court in the final minutes of his two- day trial, when he said, ``If I were released and would have the chance to do it again ... I would do exactly the same thing.''

``What moved me to do what I did was purely my faith. ... I was motivated by the law that commands me to cut off the head of anyone who insults Allah and his prophet,'' he said.


And they want the US to play nice with these clowns?
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
To save myself carpal tunnel, here's my response in case you didn't already read it:

The Danger of Terrorism's Cause and Effect.

Apparently nasty guys who behead people are already pulling your strings. Thanks heaps for perpetuating the terrorist's message. With any luck everyone in the world will eventually take their will into account before heading to the polls.

Won't it be great when the world as a whole looks like the nations they already control?
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ok, Cannuck, show us why they hate the US. You provided a lot of evidence of the British squashing them, but none of the Americans. And nothing, nada, zilch, zip and doodly squat implicating the spanish.


1. The removal of Mossadegh was a joint effort between the British and the CIA, and as a reward, the Americans got a cut of the oil (40% ownership of the international consortium).

2.
1979: Jimmy Carter and Zbigniew Brzezinski fund the mujahedin in Afghanistan. The purpose of this is to put pressure on the secular Marxist Leninist government and to incite a Soviet invasion, luring them into “the Afghan trap.” Now, inciting a superpower to invade your country might piss you off, eh?


Do you deny that Carter and Brzezinski had anything to do with US foreign policy?

And the Spanish went along with the attacks on Iraq, which I didn't want to get into because it's been done and I would be typing all day.


You are typical of the liberals who will not face the fact that Evil exists, and no amount of appeasement will mollify it.


Yes, evil does exist, but the way to eradicate it is not through more evil. You can't fight fire with fire, and you can't fight evil wiith evil. Abraham Lincoln once said something to the effect of "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make them friends?" Of course, we need to defend ourselves, however in this case too good of an offense is not necessarily the best defense.