Frogboy Frogboy

Take that file-swappers!

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Take that file-swappers!

A big blow to parasitic companies..

http://news.com.com/Supreme+Court+rules+against+file+swapping/2100-1030_3-5764135.html?tag=nl
from WinCustomize Forums

Today was a big win for those of us who value intellectual property.  Companies like Grokster and Kazaa and others who profit off of enabling people to conveniently steal software, music, videos, etc. are now on notice thanks to today's Supreme Court ruling on the issue.

The Supreme court found that peer-to-peer providers are indeed liable for how users make use of their network.  I for one am pretty pleased with this outcome on a number of levels.

A few years ago, Napster took the world by storm. Its developer was hailed as a visionary and the company became a household name.  But many developers, including us, were pretty unhappy with the whole thing. Automated piracy is not revolutionary or innovative.  Many companies (including Stardock) had thought of such file sharing concepts in the past but did not invest in them because it would be difficult to keep people from pirating.  But companies and individuals with fewer scruples not only went forward with such ideas but profited greatly from them and won both fame and fortune.

These companies exist, IMO, purely to profit from people pirating other people's work.  Perhaps these guys will find real jobs now and earn money honestly.

The Supreme Court wrote:

"There is no evidence that either company (Grokster or StreamCast) made an effort to filter copyrighted material from users' downloads or otherwise impede the sharing of copyrighted files," Souter wrote. "Each company showed itself to be aiming to satisfy a known source of demand for copyright infringement, the market comprising former Napster users."

While the court will, in future cases, need to clarify some of the elements of its ruling, I think this is a big win for people who create intellectual property.  I don't have a huge angst about piracy per se, but I have a lot of angst about companies in the business of profiting from it.

78,772 views 215 replies
Reply #102 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Well this was an interesting topic, but Ill tell you im exhausted. It was nice debating with some of you guys.
Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #103 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I don't care what the supreme court says. They can make all the laws and whatnot they want. Laws can and will be broken and this (when they get all the rules straightened out) will be no different. If all of a sudden Kazza was gone, you can be rest assured that another similiar operation will spring up and people (including me, cos theres no (edited for language) way I'm paying $22 dollars for a single cd) will just flock to that one and on and on and on. P2P sharing has gotten way to big to stop, you would have to "shut down" the entire net. The bottom line is, when one avenue is blocked another will be built within the month. So its a superficial "victory" at best.
Reply #104 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Nail Z Bunny No four letter words please. I'm sure we can express ourselves clearly without resorting to profanity. Thankyou.
Reply #105 from WinCustomize Forums Top
you can be rest assured that another similiar operation will spring up and people (including me, cos theres no (edited for language) way I'm paying $22 dollars for a single cd


I suppose you will feel the same way when anything you try to sell gets taken away from you by someone that feels they shouldn’t pay for it. I sure will jump to the chance to do it, especially since you think it's the correct thing to do.
And by the way, now days you don’t need to purchase the entire CD, there are ways to buy just the song/s you like from any CD for as low as .99 cents. But as you eloquently put it, that wont satisfies you because on the long run you just want to 'steal' them.

So it’s a superficial "victory" at best.


Yeah, that is until you get busted and penalized, only then you would know how 'superficial' the victory is.
Arrogant ignorance never cease to amaze me
Reply #106 from WinCustomize Forums Top

 Tabbed browsing aka here is somehow 'invented by Apple'?  Gee...I didn't realise Jobs thought up the idea of Index cards.....I'm actually willing to bet they existed before he was a sparkle in his old man's eye....

There's a lot of 'if's in post #100 which renders the comments valuless....

Laws can and will be broken and this (when they get all the rules straightened out) will be no different.

Yes, they probably will....since they already are.  The laws of criminality pertaining to 'accessory' will catch more than just the Kazaa-clone profiteers.  If a person buys a commodity and then allows it to be 'taken/shared' by someone else he is just a fool who fails to adequately protect his property...like buying a car but leaving it unlocked with the keys in it for anyone to 'borrow' if they wish.  Too many people see this as 'stupid' but different from 'P2P' as in that case the commodity is duplicated, not taken as such.

The 'duplication' is a violation of copyright [usually].

Now, if the 'taker' takes in the full knowledge that it violates copyright/IP Law, etc as established within current statutes he may be found guilty of 'receiving'....and one great benefit is 'ignorance is no excuse' so even if he's unaware the first he might learn of it is the knock on the door.

I dunno....all this 'I want my P to P' [sounds like a song]...is probably all down to being an 'age' thing.  What's the bet that those vehement proponents are all around their teens?

What's the bet they have scant regard for property rights because they are barely old enough to have 'property'?...

Oh, wait...now I'm 'age-ist' which denies all validity of argument...

Reply #107 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Yep....I hate it when I'm right.....
Reply #108 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Jafo - Don't you wish you were still young so you could know it all?
Reply #109 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Oh....I knew it all when I was young, too...but as the current youth will attest....once you reach 'twenty-something' your sum knowledge begins to corrode/degrade.....after all, that's self-evident with the fact by the time you are 100 plus all you can do is sit in a wheelchair and drool....
Reply #110 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Ahhh, but Jafo, at 100+ you still get the satisfaction of looking back and admire how grand you were at 20 something.
Reply #111 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Ok, first of all I never claimed to "know it all". I don't and neither do you. Second I never said wether it was right or wrong, that is for the individual to decide for themselves, not some random person on the net. I was simply stating the end result. The end result is people will still share files regardless of any percieved consequences. Period. For all your age and wisdom I don't understand why you failed to see that in my comment and instead feel content to stick words in my mouth and sit on your high and mighty internet throne. Talk about ignorant arrogance. That is all.
Reply #112 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The 'right or wrong' is not determined by the individual, OR by 'some random person on the net'.  It's decided by those within society entrusted with the determination of 'right or wrong'.  We call them the 'Legal System'.

What is left for the 'individual' is the decision to abide by the 'laws' or not.  What society then demands is that those who decide to exercise their 'free will' and ignore the statutes/tenets imposed upon them is that they serve some form of penalty for so-doing.  And from 'penalty' comes 'penal system', aka imprisonment, etc.

Everyone has the 'free will' to break any such 'law' they deem draconian or unjust or restrictive....but you are then obliged to suffer the consequences of so doing.

Food for thought....a paedophile will argue that he is NOT doing anything 'wrong'.  In his version of reality he will declare that it is his 'right'.  Fortunately for 'us', public opinion is at odds with their beliefs and they are prosecuted/punished.

A belief that a social 'rule' is an imposition does not justify its violation....and it certainly will not absolve you from retribution.

The right or wrong of a law is outside your determination...the justification or validity may be open to debate of 'fairness' or being excessive....but the longer a person remains a member of 'his' society the more he will come to dislike parts of it but will have to accept its rulings to remain a valid member of that society and not end up ostracized or excluded.

All facets or subsets of society have rules and impositions.  Here on Wincustomize.com, because of our hosted content [artwork aka skins] we impose limitations which are defined by copyright, IP, etc....and for aeons have referred to transgressions of same as 'rips'.  Other parts of the world might debunk property 'rights' but WC is not 'other parts of the world'....it's a US-based site, owned and run by a US-based Company [Stardock] which is [as you would expect] protective of its own IP and, through the ministrations of the site Admins assists in protecting the IP rights of its members/community.

Those who, for whatever reason or perception of 'wrongness', choose to defy our community's IP 'rules' are, by definition not 'community members'.

This is most commonly evident by whether the alleged 'member' is a giver or a taker...or, in other words [in our terminology] a 'skinner' or a 'user'.

Generally it is mostly the 'users' who want 'something for nothing' and generally it is the 'skinners' who appreciate IP protection and support it.

Sure, there's idealists in both camps.....but in this world nothing is ever really 'ideal'....

Reply #113 from WinCustomize Forums Top
TANSTAAFL!
Reply #115 from WinCustomize Forums Top
perhaps nail z bunny the need to take the moral highground and remind youth of their folly is something that comes with age. it gives one something to look forward to, non?
Reply #116 from WinCustomize Forums Top

'moral high ground' sounds so fey.

'law abiding' is just not good enough for the rebellious yoof, though....

Reply #118 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Oh, back when I was pushing 20 we had real issues to get all hot and sweaty about...a little skirmish called Vietnam...and trying to work out ways of not dying over there.

In the big scheme of things, not being able to steal mp3s anymore hardly rates, does it?...

Reply #119 from WinCustomize Forums Top
In the big scheme of things, not being able to steal mp3s anymore hardly rates, does it?


why no i suppose not. today's youth are so.. immoral. perhaps we need our own war to go off and fight. one that takes place in another country. against an enemy we know little about. and for specious reasons we don't fully understand. oh wait we have iraq. except that was an unpopular war as well. perhaps contemporary youth are smart afterall. now there's a thought.
Reply #120 from WinCustomize Forums Top
why no i suppose not. today's youth are so.. immoral. perhaps we need our own war to go off and fight. one that takes place in another country. against an enemy we know little about. and for specious reasons we don't fully understand. oh wait we have iraq. except that was an unpopular war as well. perhaps contemporary youth are smart afterall. now there's a thought.


-off thread-

Making the above comparrison only *makes* the point you are trying so hard to argue against.

Vietnam - over 10 years; over 50,000 dead soldiers; all 18 year olds subject to the draft, whether you agreed with the "police operation" or not; soldiers ridiculed and called "baby killers" upon arriving home; stupid missions that were determined by politicians looking at maps "don't cross this line".

Iraq - 2 years and talk of leaving is there, just not an artificial "leave by this date"; less than 2,000 casualties and a much higher survival rate amongst those wounded than ever before; an all volunteer force, no one is forced to serve; soldiers are beloved and treated as the heroes they truly are... at least here in Texas; missions determined by the military commanders themselves, and being passed off to the new Iraqi military as they are able to handle them.

Your comparison is insulting to those of us who did live through Vietnam.

-returning to thread-
Reply #121 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Citizen cougent ...yes, we have strayed off-topic... but you are quite correct....only the new-gen won't see it that way...
Reply #122 from WinCustomize Forums Top
perhaps it is a generational thing. if knowledge is power then the flipside to file sharing is the freeing up of information enabled by the same digital technology that allows each of us to (potentially) make more informed decisions about the nature of the world rather than simply accepting the dominant discourse of the day.

or to put it more succinctly, perhaps the 'new-gen' has the wit to know when they have and are being manipulated by those who claim to have our best interests at stake. this is our world. this is our time. which is nice. non?
Reply #123 from WinCustomize Forums Top

this is our world. this is our time. which is nice. non?

Check back on that one in 20 years' time, oui?....

Reply #124 from WinCustomize Forums Top
This is/could be true just as there will always be thieves and killers among each community but that is not going to stop us from protecting our selves against them or for the police to stop pursuing them.
And whether an individual believes in something or not does not makes that person immune to the laws already established.


My point exactly JourneyMan Apocalypse_67. Well said .
Reply #125 from WinCustomize Forums Top
In regards to the file "sharing", I too applaud the SC for their decision, and has well been stated here already they did limit their condemnation to the purveyors of piracy not the technology that facilitates the piracy.

I never used Napster, it was wrong, pure and simple and therefore I made a conscious choice not to use it. Not out of a great love for Metallica and their continued status as millionaires... rather as a choice for myself as to whether *I* wanted to do the right thing or not. Earlier someone said they would not pay $22 for a CD... that is your right and your choice. If all the listeners of music would agree with you and sales stopped completely; then the price would drop to a level that people did find acceptable and sales would start up again. That is the power of the free market. However the decision to obtain the contents of that CD for free simply because "I want it now" is the SAME as any other theft, period, end of discussion. You are a thief. You may not use a mask, gun, or crowbar, but your intent and motives are exactly the same as any other thief stealing any other object.

A true scenario, a new and struggling young band who I knew one of the members. They wrote and performed their own original songs, they gave away CD's of their music at early concerts. They fianlly started making a name for themselves locally and stopped giving away CD's. They were able to get better bookings to larger audiences. They tried to start selling CD's (at $5 each) to help cover their costs of performing. Almost no takers, yet dozens of posts on their website "why should I buy your CD when I can get it for free on Kazaa". Even new songs which had never been recorded only played live at concerts were available on Kazaa. After 7 years of trying to make it, they did not. The band no longer exists. The members have gone on to other things. Yes you can still find their old music on Kazaa, but you will never hear their new music anywhere... because of Kazaa and a generation of thieves who stole them out of existence.

I look forward to the day when I see someone of any age hauled into court and sued for 20 million dollars or so for the 1,000's of pirated songs and movies (and software) he has on his multiple 200 GB hard drives in his system.