AFA, Falwell Revisited

Losin' it and losin' it and losin' it well

from JoeUser Forums
Alright, so we know Jerry Falwell, he of the raving lunacy? Good. We know the American Family Association, it of non-spongebob fame? Good. They've both lost it.

Falwell I won't really elaborate on because he's pretty much lost all credibility with me after "Spongebob is gay", but long story short he wants you to boycott Kraft for sponsoring the Gay Games. I'm sure the AFA wants you to do the same, although they aren't being so upfront. But anyways, let me hit y'all with a couple of numbers:

1) $12 million donated in conjunction with Coca-Cola and The Boys and Girls Clubs of American to fund a Youth Health and Wellness Initiative
2) $250,000 donated to food banks around the US and Canada
3)Partnership with Save the Children outlining a four year plan to build schools and donate money to education initiatives in underdeveloped nations.
4)Partnership with the Rainforest Alliance to preserve the environment while still supporting their independent coffee growers.
5)Ongoing association with the American Red Cross (and other organizations) to donate food, money and supplies to disaster areas.
6)The release of a new product whose proceeds will go towards childhood cancer research in association with Alex's Lemonade Stand.
7)ALL, I repeat, ALL IRRELEVANT BECAUSE THEY ALSO SUPPORT THE GAY GAMES.

To quote the esteemed Mr. Falwell "I don't think moral-minded Americans understand the potential power that we wield...I urge everyone to take a stand for decency by participating in this national effort..." and it goes on from there. This from the same man who says gay rights' activists whine about him being stuffed with hate like an overblown turkey, simply because they disagree with him. Of course, he then turns around and whines that everyone who doesn't support him is immoral and indecent, simply for disagreeing with him. Neither is perfect, but I'd rather be hate-filled than immoral and indecent, wouldn't you?

Alright, on to the AFA. They're throwing their fit about the Gay Games organizing parties at clubs for the athletes and participants to attend during the night. They also link to pictures of what goes on in gay night clubs. (As a side note, does it seem ironic to anyone that the AFA links to more images of softcore gay porn than any lewd pop-up ad that I've ever received? Just a thought...) So anyways, after perusing the "offensive" 3 photo spread that the AFA website displays after lots of rather serious looking red capital letters, I've established this: The photographs depict the exact same things that go on in every other night club anywhere. Shirtless men, dry humping, lots of rubbing and grinding...yawn. Go to a straight club. Go on spring break. Watch MTV. (By the way, another side note: the AFA doesn't seem to find lesbian pictures offensive...odd...)

So anyways, to recap: Apparantly the problem is not the gay games, its what goes on at gay night clubs. So, then, forgetting the fact that the same stuff happens at straight clubs and its okay, the problem has now gone from gay's "hoisting their lifestyle" onto people with PDA's to gay people convening in ENCLOSED, OFTEN FLAMBOYANTLY MARKED night clubs that it is everyone's option to avoid. Wow. Why don't we just bury them in underground pits where they won't bother anyone? Or better yet, tall towers. Did anyone see The Man in the Iron Mask?

But as balanced as the AFA is, I suppose we'll soon see their boycott of the Olympic games (which also seeks to foster an active social nightlife for the participants) and the World Cup (for which Germany is actually erecting a "sex village", a town of small huts where prostitutes can stock up on free condoms and food). I eagerly await the AFA's assault on the corporate sponsors of these events, as I doubt premarital simulated sex (homosexual or otherwise) and government sponsored prostitution falls in line with the AFA's "traditional values."




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Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top

It is refreshing to see the whackos of the right stil get under your skin.  So they are just practicing their constitution right to boycott whomever they want to.  I guess you are not going to follow lockstep with them?

Neither am I.  Now if you would be so passionate in your denunciation of Dick Durbin and Howlin Howie, then we could have a good old fashion debate!

Let them rant and rail and rave.  I dont see Bush, Cheney or Frist endorsing them.  Far cry from the left loonies tho.

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
It is refreshing to see the whackos of the right stil get under your skin. So they are just practicing their constitution right to boycott whomever they want to. I guess you are not going to follow lockstep with them?


Notice no complaint about the boycott. None whatsoever. I learned my lesson the last time. I'm strictly disagreeing with their stance. Which is my constitutional right.

Neither am I. Now if you would be so passionate in your denunciation of Dick Durbin and Howlin Howie, then we could have a good old fashion debate!


There's really no need for me to be when you consider that market is already oversaturated here.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top

Gay Games?!? GAY GAMES?!? Let me get it straight (pun  intended): These games are organized around SEXUALITY (and ironically, under the gay rights groups' definitions of discrimination, are patently discriminatory).

Even assuming that homosexuals ARE a protected minority, can you imagine the outrage over "Negrolympics"? Or "The Caucasian games"? The idea is patently RIDICULOUS.

Now, back to the point: Kraft and other companies are doing more than asserting support for homosexual rights. They are supporting the promotion and marketing of the homosexual lifestyle. And the people who potentially might buy their products should know this.

So, to that end, I fully endorse the organizers of this boycott.

Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gay Games?!? GAY GAMES?!? Let me get it straight (pun intended): These games are organized around SEXUALITY


Where do you get organized around sexuality? From the word gay in the title? Sexual orientation and sexuality are two different things. There is no "best sodomy" event.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Now, back to the point: Kraft and other companies are doing more than asserting support for homosexual rights. They are supporting the promotion and marketing of the homosexual lifestyle. And the people who potentially might buy their products should know this.So, to that end, I fully endorse the organizers of this boycott.


Again, no problem with the boycott. Boycott away. Boycott your mother for all I care. The point had nothing to do with the boycott. Let's drop the boycott.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

Philo,

The homosexual community is, by definition, segregating themselves around their sexual preferences. My feeling about this stands. This is about "selling" homosexuality, NOT about celebrating diversity...and there's a HUGE world of difference there.

Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
The homosexual community is, by definition, segregating themselves around their sexual preferences. My feeling about this stands. This is about "selling" homosexuality, NOT about celebrating diversity...and there's a HUGE world of difference there.


And that's a valid feeling. As is mine that this boycott is not about "informing potential customers," but about "selling" discrimination.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

how is it selling discrimination? If anything, it's FIGHTING discrimination. The gay games, by their very nature are discriminatory.

Personally, I think Jerry Falwell's an asshat. That being said, it doesn't mean he isn't OCCASIONALLY right!

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
The boycott and the "gay games" are both people exercising their rights. And both just as stupid as the other.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'd rather be hate-filled than immoral and indecent, wouldn't you?


Actually, no.


the World Cup (for which Germany is actually erecting a "sex village",


Why would the American Family Association boycott Germany?
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
The homosexual community is, by definition, segregating themselves around their sexual preferences. My feeling about this stands. This is about "selling" homosexuality, NOT about celebrating diversity...and there's a HUGE world of difference there.



Have you ever been to Cherry Grove or Fire Island Pines, both on Fire Island, NY? Both these communities are predominantly gay oriented. Though I am not gay, I particularly enjoy going to Cherry Grove. I do understand this feeling of community that some here perceive as "segregation". Cherry Grove is a place where gays can go and not be inhibited by their sexuality, holding hands, being flamboyant, or whatever. Hell, they can even do the "clothing optional" thing on the beach. They play gay volley ball, have gay parties, gay bars, gay fire department, etc. But, just because I'm not gay does not mean I am not welcome, which is often the case in a heterosexual community. It is about diversity. In fact, I see more people of all races, creed, color, sexual orientation within a "gay" community, than anywhere else on Fire Island, which is predominantly not gay, and is "family" oriented. It's not about segregation. It's about finding like people and celebrating their likeness. It's about feeling comfortable doing what they do, which btw, is not breaking any laws. Calling it segregation is disengenuous, derogatory and discriminatory. It's hateful.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
...... this boycott is not about "informing potential customers," but about "selling" discrimination.


Right on!
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top

Personally, I think Jerry Falwell's an asshat. That being said, it doesn't mean he isn't OCCASIONALLY right!

If for the wrong reasons.

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
how is it selling discrimination? If anything, it's FIGHTING discrimination. The gay games, by their very nature are discriminatory.


The only reason that this is being boycotted is because of the presence of gays. It is not because of suggestive dancing in nightclubs or the erosion of the institution of marriage. It is because of the presence of a specific group of people. If the true motivation was the preservation of "traditional values," there would be boycotts as strong against all nightclub sponsors, as well as reality marriage TV shows, etc. Perhaps discrimination was the wrong word; a better choice would have been stigmatization. In either case, the boycott sure as hell isn't to "inform."

Actually, no.


Alright, but hate-filled could mean you hate racists and such. Indecent and immoral just means you're bad.

Why would the American Family Association boycott Germany?


Wouldn't they boycott the German and international (some American) companies that sponsor the World Cup, as well as the national soccer team that plays in it?
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
How is this any different than the last confused rant? Liberal activists don't give a crap when they boycott businesses that also do charity work for other causes.

Do you think Jesse Jackson gave a crap about "$12 million donated in conjunction with Coca-Cola" when he held-up Coke? Do you think Greenpeace and all the other activist organizations care that people lose jobs and charities lose money with THEY undertake boycotts?

-If you are trying to say that boycotts are wrong, then you are starting on the wrong side. The other side of the aisle invented and perfected the process.

-If you are saying this organization is wrong for using a boycott when other causes you agree with do the same thing, you are a hypocrite.

-If you are addressing their beliefs about gays, why address the boycott at all? Their attitude toward homosexuality is well known. Are you saying you just suddenly learned through this boycott how they felt about gay people?

Strike, two, imho. Either you aren't making your point about boycotts, or you don't have a point about boycotts.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

How is this any different than the last confused rant?


If you don't see how this is different than the last article, you should enroll in a reading comprehension course at your local community college.

-If you are trying to say that boycotts are wrong, then you are starting on the wrong side. The other side of the aisle invented and perfected the process.


Again, let me repeat it: Not about boycotts. Ended with the boycotts the last time. Boycotts are over. Go boycott whatever you want. In your case, feel free to start with me. Please boycott me.

-If you are saying this organization is wrong for using a boycott when other causes you agree with do the same thing, you are a hypocrite.


No. Don't know where you got this one from, but no. I don't think the I said anything about boycott's other than there's one happening. Thanks for assuming though.

-If you are addressing their beliefs about gays, why address the boycott at all?


BECAUSE IT'S HAPPENING! Damn. I mentioned it in passing. What do you want from me? I mention Spongebob out of place, you yell at me for lying...I mention boycotts in context, you yell at me for telling the truth...Just tell me what you want me to say.

Strike, two, imho. Either you aren't making your point about boycotts, or you don't have a point about boycotts.


And finally, the revelation hits him that this article isn't about boycotts.

-If you are addressing their beliefs about gays, why address the boycott at all? Their attitude toward homosexuality is well known. Are you saying you just suddenly learned through this boycott how they felt about gay people?


I'm saying I have a problem with their attitudes toward homosexuality, ok? Clear enough for you?
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yep, I think it is just sad that you have to have a strawman to express yourself. This is twice you've ragged on boycotts you disagree with as an excuse to talk about beliefs you disagree with.

Why not just come out of the closet and admit you are intolerant of other people's religious beliefs?


P.S. You have a link to a quote about Falwell saying Spongebob is gay? I can't find one, only sites rants like this one who assume he said it. I realize that he said that about Tinky Winky, but one has to wonder about any purple guy that carries a purse...
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yep, I think it is just sad that you have to have a strawman to express yourself. This is twice you've ragged on boycotts you disagree with as an excuse to talk about beliefs you disagree with.


Tell me where I've ragged on boycotts here. I said Jerry Falwell was sponsoring a boycott, and that the AFA probably wouldn't mind one. That's it. I didn't express my opinion on the boycott one way or another. But it's been awhile since you've decided to actually read what I write in an article, anyways.

Why not just come out of the closet and admit you are intolerant of other people's religious beliefs?


Because I'm not. If you want me to come out and say that I'm intolerant of people who are intolerant of gays, fine. I'm intolerant of people who are intolerant of gays. Here, once more so you don't miss it. I AM INTOLERANT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE INTOLERANT OF GAYS. If the reason a person is intolerant of gays happens to be religious, than I guess I am intolerant of ONE of said person's religious beliefs. Just like if someone's religious belief happens to be flying planes into buildings or blowing themselves up in large public places. I'm rather intolerant of those too. (Disclaimer: No matter how you try to twist this, I am in no way, shape or form equating being against gays to terrorism. I'm just saying that both attitudes have proponents who wish to link these things to religion, and that I am intolerant of them both.)

P.S. You have a link to a quote about Falwell saying Spongebob is gay? I can't find one, only sites rants like this one who assume he said it. I realize that he said that about Tinky Winky, but one has to wonder about any purple guy that carries a purse...


I'm gonna have to refer you to Gideon on that one. I had originally attributed the Spongebob quote to someone else, but he told me it had been Falwell.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
no, you misunderstood, philo...lol (but that's ok). What I was saying is that your article would have been funnier if the topic were Falwell rather than Dobson because Falwell HAD said those kind of ridiculous things (implicitly referring to the tinky winky thing). Sorry about the confusion! (BAD GID!)
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
If gays want us heteros to stay out of their bedrooms, they need to keep their bedrooms out of our faces.


Bingo, bingo, bingo.

As for the Madison Avenue marketing of heterosexuality, the poster has a point as well. And yes, I find it equally appalling.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Have you ever been to Cherry Grove or Fire Island Pines, both on Fire Island, NY? Both these communities are predominantly gay oriented. Though I am not gay, I particularly enjoy going to Cherry Grove. I do understand this feeling of community that some here perceive as "segregation". Cherry Grove is a place where gays can go and not be inhibited by their sexuality, holding hands, being flamboyant, or whatever. Hell, they can even do the "clothing optional" thing on the beach. They play gay volley ball, have gay parties, gay bars, gay fire department, etc.


And see, while to some people that may sound like a tourist brochure, to me that enumerates a place where I'd really not rather be. I think sexual behaviour belongs in the bedroom, not on the city square, irrespective of the sexual preferences of the participants.

This irritates me for the same reason "Christian music" irritates me: would you rather be known as the preeminent GAY athlete on the planet, or the preeminent athlete on the planet? To add the modifier "gay" in this instance implies an inferiority and an inability to compete on an equal basis.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
no, you misunderstood, philo...lol (but that's ok). What I was saying is that your article would have been funnier if the topic were Falwell rather than Dobson because Falwell HAD said those kind of ridiculous things (implicitly referring to the tinky winky thing). Sorry about the confusion! (BAD GID!)


My fault entirely...does anyone actually know who said the thing about Spongebob?

If gays want us heteros to stay out of their bedrooms, they need to keep their bedrooms out of our faces.


I don't see how holding a sporting event equates with putting a bedroom in your face, but alright. If you read the article, the problem that Falwell and the AFA have isn't with the games, its with the social functions that are organized in gay night clubs for the athletes. So it sounds to me like they're trying to keep their sexuality confined to a place where no one has to see it if they don't want to...whats the issue?

To add the modifier "gay" in this instance implies an inferiority and an inability to compete on an equal basis.


There gay games do not exist because of an inferiority complex, but because of the public stigma about homosexuality, which is the whole point of the article, since it is this stigma that Falwell and the AFA refuse to let die. Saying that this is about implied inferiority is like saying the Negro Leagues irritate you because of the implied inferiority they feel towards Major League Baseball.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
"My fault entirely...does anyone actually know who said the thing about Spongebob?"


No one did. No one ever said the character was gay to my knowledge, I had a feeling you had ignored it. The tinky winky thing is true, and I think it is pretty silly. I don't doubt that the creators try slip in a lot of 'tolerance' stuff, but I think it just slides by the kids and is never seen.

I posted a link to my article on the subject on your other blog. The issue was that the "We are Family" foundation had co-opted a bunch of popular cartoon characters to make a video about "tolerance", that was going to be shipped to 50,000 schools and shown.

IN the AFA's perspective, and mine, the flavor of tolerance espoused was really "acceptance". The ideals of 'we are family' and affiliated organizations go beyond tolerance and made openly differing with moral differences as "intolerance". That is attacking the religious beliefs of a child in a venue where those ideals can't be defended.

I can't remember it all and I have to run and do some tech work for a guy. The details are on that article I linked.
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
I would add that you still have both the AFA and Falwell listed on your blogs as saying spongebob is gay. I hope you don't espouse the 'Lying for Truth' thing, though I can't see any other reason to leave such up.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
I would add that you still have both the AFA and Falwell listed on your blogs as saying spongebob is gay. I hope you don't espouse the 'Lying for Truth' thing, though I can't see any other reason to leave such up.


The reason is called laziness my friend. But I shall oblige.