I choose not to be who I am not.

yeah another gay rant..

from JoeUser Forums
From the early age of about seven I remember fantasising about men.

I guess I was an early "bloomer" but I definately remember that all the sexual fantasies I had were about being with other guys. Never at anytime was a woman part of the equation.

If I had a boner, it was because I was thinking about a man.

Did I wake up one morning and think.. oh it would be so wonderful if I was gay? Heck I didnt even know what gay or homosexual meant. I knew there was something different, considering all the talk around me by my peers about looking at girls, because for me what did it was guys.

Actually, the thought of having sex with a woman repulses me. (no offense to the women here) but I find the thought of a vagina actually repulsive.

Am I choosing to think this way? Is it by choice that I am gay? Well I could choose to start having sex with a woman (wait till i go get the bucket) .. but for me, it would be unnatural. For starters physically I wouldnt be able to perform, (how do I know? Ive tried..) there is nothing there that is gonna do it for me.

Is it a choice? No, it is just a part of who I am. Notice I say it is a part of. It isnt all me. Sexually I am attracted to guys. But there is more to me than just what I do or dont do in bed. I am a Human first and foremost with feelings and emotions and intelligence just like everyone else.

I am a Physical, Emotional and Spiritual being.

People tend to describe gay people just based on what they do in the bedroom. Like some sick voyuerism that mostly (notice i say mostly ..not ALL ) Christians have when they think of the word "gay" they automatically think of anal sex or whatever they think gay people do or dont do in bed (mostly when im in bed guys im sleeping).

There is more to being human than sexuality. It is only a small part.

So maybe what we need to do is accept diversity. That not all humans are the same, (oh wouldnt it be boring if we were all the same). We all come from different backgrounds, bring with us different customs and display different ideologies. That is what makes humanity beautiful, that is what distinguishes us from animals, that is what makes us unique in the Universe. We arent all the same.

What I see here on JU are people who are mostly straight debating on gay issues. How would they know what it is like to be a homosexual? They can only surmise on what they see, and believe me what they see out there in the parades and television shows does no way represent the majority of Gay people or realistically portray them. How do I know? Cause I am one and I live the life and see the community.

I cringe when I see shows on the television like "queer eye for the straight guy" or "will and Grace", because people, it isnt what it is like, and they are the minority not the majority.

Is it a choice? yeah of course it is a choice, just like I could choose to be something I am not, but would that be the right thing to do? Should I live a lie just to please everyone else? Because of what someone else has told me that who I am is wrong based on what they believe. I dont believe I should nor should anyone else. I believe we are who we are and to not be who we are would be not only an injustice to ourselves but to the whole human race.
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6,549 views 24 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Substitute the words 'in servitude' with 'as a homosexual' and the same thing applies. It is in your nature to be gay, and to deny that nature is perverse in and of itself.


Very insightful LW!

"The only true perversion is the inability to love."


Nothing else needs to be said.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top

Thank you for the insight.  I dont know if my brother had those type of fantasies at an early age (Myself, I did not start thinking about women in a sexual way until I was about 12), and he did date a lot of women growing up (he had better luck with girls than I did).  He almost married one before he stopped, moved to Montana, and came back 18 months later out of the closet (I guess he was about 22 then).

He is happy.  And the same guy I grew up with (Irresponsible and a pain in the ass).

Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
He is happy. And the same guy I grew up with (Irresponsible and a pain in the ass).


Insightful for you too Dr Guy.. Im glad your bro is happy.. and good to see nothing has changed between you
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

Insightful for you too Dr Guy.. Im glad your bro is happy.. and good to see nothing has changed between you

Actually it has.  We dont fight any longer, and we now laugh about our childhood.  But then I dont fight with my sisters any longer either.  DO you think that means I am maturing?

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
But then I dont fight with my sisters any longer either. DO you think that means I am maturing?


How old are you Dr Guy?

I dont fight with my sisters anymore.. well nothing like when we were kids now it's just play fighting..
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

How old are you Dr Guy?

Ummm.......old enough to remember the beatles on Ed Sullivan live?

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
since sex makes up about less than 10% of a long term relationship, I can see where a persons sexuality has little or nothing to do with the quality of love. If you are lucky enough to be in love and stay in love, then you are blessed, straight, gay or bisexual.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ok ok.. well then I guess you should be maturing then gracefully I hope.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
If you are lucky enough to be in love and stay in love, then you are blessed, straight, gay or bisexual.


Amen.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Phoenix, thanks for sharing this insightful article about yourself. You should be who you are and not what others want you to be. Staying true to yourself is what you're doing and this is good. It's hard not to let what others think or feel affect or influence you. But it's wrong when you let outside influence breaks you down so that you lose your own identity.

I've been amongst and friends with a few people who are gay or lesbian. I've always found them to be very honest and fun people and they never try to push their beliefs on me or others. They also don't always sit around talking about sex unless it's a part of the conversation in a fun and general way! So as you say it's not about sex. Somehow this always comes up with heterosexual folks doesn't it! I think it also comes up a lot when others want to get their points across of how wrong being gay is and to pursuade others to think like them.

Funny thing is, anal sex is done by a lot of people these day, no matter what their sexuality! It's something that is personal and should remain so and is nobody's business, unless by choice it isn't, i.e. friends chatting amongst themselves - you know how that goes!

Continue to be who you are Phoenix. Live your life!
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
You should be who you are and not what others want you to be. Staying true to yourself is what you're doing and this is good.


This is how I try and live life foreverserenity! Guess it goes with the territory.

They also don't always sit around talking about sex unless it's a part of the conversation in a fun and general way! So as you say it's not about sex. Somehow this always comes up with heterosexual folks doesn't it! I think it also comes up a lot when others want to get their points across of how wrong being gay is and to pursuade others to think like them.


Exactly! It's like some sort of voyouristic pleasure I think about delving into oher peoples sex lives.. who knows. But when Im with my mates we really dont sit around and only talk about sex.

Continue to be who you are Phoenix. Live your life!
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top

Ok ok.. well then I guess you should be maturing then gracefully I hope.

Sounds like you either have a lot of wisdom or are old like me!

I hope gracefully as well!

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Sounds like you either have a lot of wisdom or are old like me!


Im 32.. wisdom?? hmm well who knows.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Pheonix, very good article. That is why the issue is such a touchy one for so many. On the one hand, society seems to be telling you to be something your not, on the other hand (and at the same time) society is telling those of us who feel just as strongly that homosexual acts are "unnatural" that we are wrong.

The truth is, while the attractions and urges (homosexual or heterosexual) are not something we "choose", what we do about those attractions and urges is nothing but a choice.

Should I (a married man) act on an attraction to a woman who isn't my wife? What if I just married the "other woman", if it's ok with my existing wife, what's the harm?What if I am married and feel attractions to a man, is that ok to act upon, or would it also be cheating? Should those who are sexually attracted to kids control and repress their urges, or, as long as it's ok with the kid, should it be ok with society?

What I am getting at is, homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, asexual or any other prefix to "sexual" each comes with it's set of acceptable and unacceptable behaviors. If unnacceptable urges are "part of us all", then what makes homosexual urges so sacred that the rest of us should celebrate (or even accept) them?
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
I agree with a fair amount of this article PB. I don't think anyone chooses who they are attracted to and as long as you're not hurting anyone, then you should be free to act as you wish (obviously, if you are hurting someone because you are causing someone else to have unrequited love or you are in a relationship that isn't working, that's a different matter).

I don't see how any of this distinguishes us from animals. I celebrate the diversity of all animals, human or otherwise.

And well, personally I believe gender is a social construct, so the statement that you are homosexual is, in my opinion a perpetuation of the binary notion of gender that causes so much trouble for people who are homosexual. But that's a long and complicated story I won't get into now. If you are really interested though, do some googling on Judith Butler. There's some good stuff around on her philosophy.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Should I (a married man) act on an attraction to a woman who isn't my wife?


This is where I think Para you place gay people in the wrong basket. You are talking about cheating, doing something that you know isnt right...hmm it's hard for me to put into words.. but Man it aint just about the sex that is the whole point of my article. It is about Love, just like what LW was saying. You love your wife. That is a great thing, just like if I had a bf I would love him and be in the same sort of relationship as you and your wife are.

Its not about any "urges" its about love. See you as a heterosexual cant think past the sex. Proving my point. That is why you dont understand or agree with homosexuality. Look past the penis and look at the heart.

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Pheonix. That is why I said "attractions and urges", and not just "urges". Attractions are the seeds of what becomes love. Believe it or not, I don't question a homosexual's love for their partner. I understand it's much more than sex, it is about attraction. You are attracted to other men. Not all other men (anymore than I'm attracted to all women). When I feel an attraction to women, it's rarely about sex. So, I figure, why would your attractions to men be any different.

Ok, so let's move beyond mere sex. You said something very important in your reply to me:

This is where I think Para you place gay people in the wrong basket. You are talking about cheating, doing something that you know isnt right...


Is cheating inherently wrong? If the spouse knows about it, and approves, does that make it ok? "Doing something that you know isn't right" is a powerful category. Do you know homosexual acts are "right"? Or do you just know that you are basically a good person, so if you are attracted to men, that must be good too. So, as you see, I don't place gay people in the wrong basket, I place you in the basket of people who do things that are not right. That doesn't mean I'm not friends with some people who are gay, that just means that I have friends with people who I think aren't living right.

To me the gay marriage issue is not about whether or not gay people should be free to love who they want. That is why I have no problem with the whole, "what adults do in the privacy of their own home is nobody's business but their own" philosophy. The issue is about the legal and social definition of "family". Destroy the family as the basic building block of a free society and you destroy freedom and the society.

As I pointed out in another thread, immature heterosexuals have done the most to destroy the family unit in society, however, the selfish actions of infantile adults is no justification for further erosion by erasing any real definition of the concept.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
So, as you see, I don't place gay people in the wrong basket, I place you in the basket of people who do things that are not right.


Who says that wha your doing is right? WHo says that heterosexuals are right?
The issue is about the legal and social definition of "family". Destroy the family as the basic building block of a free society and you destroy freedom and the society.


Para like I said in my other article about who is my family.. the defenition of tthe family unit as you might see it isnt always what people call their family.. My biological family which consists of hundreds of people arent all the people I consider to be my "family". They might be relaed to be by blood but alot have nothing to do with my life.

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
Para like I said in my other article about who is my family.. the defenition of tthe family unit as you might see it isnt always what people call their family.. My biological family which consists of hundreds of people arent all the people I consider to be my "family". They might be relaed to be by blood but alot have nothing to do with my life.


True, but there are legal and societal definitions of "family". Who you consider family is a very personal thing. However, society and the law need to have very specific definitions. The only reason parents can have a say in our kids upbringing is society and the law respect (even mandate) our participation. Legal definitions come from societal definitions (since it is the people who push for laws to be written). The weaker the societal definition of family becomes, the more the government will encrouch on family rights and obligations.

You have every right to demand your rights, your homosexuality does not negate those rights. You are free to love who you want, but please, we all need to recognize what we are doing to society when we make our self serving demands.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
You are free to love who you want, but please, we all need to recognize what we are doing to society when we make our self serving demands.


And so are you free to love who you want. So just because the law of this time says that your freedoms are more legitimate than mine doesnt make it "right" or just.

Remember tha in the past the rights and freedoms of women in our society was repressed because of the patriarcal laws that were in place, thankfully we have evolved as a society to have realised that women have just as much rights and freedoms as men do in our society. There would be people who argued back then that it would place discord in society, and some men still think the same.

When we all realise that we need to love one another like we would like to be loved then and only then will we come into some balance here.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Nature does, as heterosexuality is crucial to the survival of our species


As is Homosexuality, LW if we all fucked and bred this planet would be so overpopulated that it would be unsustainable. I also believe that in the future there will be more Androgeny, as we as a species evolves more spiritually and no longer need to breed, where we identify the male and female within each one of us and form a much more fuller human being.. (way out there I know but im looking outside the box).

and into the realm of acceptance and/or approval. (an unreasonable expectation.)


What I think we should be doing is accepting the differences in humanity rather than only accepting what the society of the time accepts as "normal". We are all different and as we evolve we will accept those differences whether it be cultural or physical or behavioural.

Honey Im no "out there" demanding anything, what I am asking for is basic common respect as an individual as a human. I make the satement I am "gay" but I really dont see myself in any category. It is society that places me in a box of which I will break up and remould as I develop in all ways. ( am i making sense?)

I love ya too ya fag hag
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
On the one hand, society seems to be telling you to be something your not, on the other hand (and at the same time) society is telling those of us who feel just as strongly that homosexual acts are "unnatural" that we are wrong.


Para, You make a very plausible case for why 'gay rights' is not just a simple justice issue and show a lot of sensitivity in holding the views you do without any discernible bigotry or rancor. I can follow (whether or not I agree) almost everything you say, especially about the stake that the wider society has in the issue, but I am just stumped by that word "unnatural". What exactly does it mean?

I note however that you say "those of us who feel ... homosexual acts are unnatural". If it is a feeling, rather than a thought, then we can no more argue about it then I can try to convince you of the 'naturalness' of prefering tea to coffee.
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
Thanks Chakgogka for saying simply what I have been trying to say..