Once more on abortion....

from JoeUser Forums
This article Link brought to mind an article I wrote before about abortion.

When does a baby deserve the right to live? 40 weeks gestation? What if they can be considered "viable" and have a chance for survival at say...26 weeks?

I still don't think that anything could personnally make me want to get an abortion myself. I waited, miserable with fear that I couldn't have children, for nearly 3 years before I had my first child. But, I've never been pregnant after a rape.... I can empathize with the mental anguish that a woman could go through. I'd never begrudge her the choice. I'd never refuse a woman's right to choose. I don't know what they are going through. I don't want to quibble over...well, IF she had a terminal disease or IF she was going to die because of complications AND she had other kids to care for.....That just opens the door for legislation that would allow one woman in desperation the option and not another who is not "enough" at risk.

That being said. I disagree with abortion. I think it is horrible and wrong. I think that using abortion as birth control is heinous. i think it shows a disregard for the gift of life. A gift from God. Even if you disagree with the religious aspect....it is still destroying a child. Argue definitions and semantics all you want, but if children can survive at 26 weeks or less....(earliest birth that survived was 20 weeks-so far) I have to say that abortion should not be allowed after that point. Because at that point....there is no way of denying that it's destroying a life.

Now that I have pissed off the pro-choice and the right to live crowds, let me back up and point something out. I think abortion at any point is wrong, but if I had an ectopic pregnancy, I'd end it. Technically, it's still a life, but there is no way I could carry that baby far enough through pregnancy for either of us to survive..So I have to allow for the option to choose.

I also believe strongly in free choice. God gave us the unaliable right to choose. Even if someone holds a gun to your head, you still have that right. No one can take it away. I believe that a choice to end another's life is between you and God. I'd kill you to protect my kids. And that choice would be made between me and God. i'd take the consequenses, but that choice is mine. So as distasteful and vile as abortion is....I have to allow others a choice. They are the ones who will be held accountable.

So where does that leave me? I support teaching children about abortion...teaching that it is a last resort, for extreme situations, not birth control. Teaching abstinance. (yes I know kids drink/have sex etc but ENCOURAGING IT IS WRONG) Giving our tax money to support programs that offset costs of adoption and promote monogamous lifestyles instead of abortion clinics. Private dollars can support women's birth control abortions. If someone is desperate, they will find a way get or borrow the money....but I'm not in favor of passing my tax dollars out for repeat offenders.....
2,994 views 18 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
I agree. It's wrong to do it, and to promote it, but it would also be wrong to make it illegal. Hard choices.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm with you. I want women to have the right to choose, but at the same time I don't agree with it.

I'm not a christian, as you know, but I do believe that things are given to us when we need them...and that everything happens for a reason. We may not know what the reason is right away, but we will eventually learn it. Aborting a baby for purely self centered reason is like messing with the way of the universe (IMO)...you're asking for trouble when you start tampering with it.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
hence the "moderate" part of my name.... I hate and detest abortion..... but I think it's a womans RIGHT to choose, and I support that right.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Life,

Wonderful post. I think you'll find there are more of us that agree with you than you know.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
I hate to sound so brainwashed, but I've really thought the issue out carefully in addition to the Church's stance on abortion.

It really makes sense to me that abortion is completely wrong "except in the rare cases where, in the opinion of competent medical counsel, the life or good health of the mother is seriously endangered or where the pregnancy was caused by rape [or incest] and produces serious emotional trauma in the mother. Even then it should be done only after counseling with the local presiding priesthood authority and after receiving divine confirmation through prayer." Harold B. Lee, N. Eldon Tanner, and Marion G. Romney, “Policies and Procedures,” New Era, Apr. 1973, 29

And I applaud you for using your own words to state essentially the same thing. Conversely, I love your brashness at saying, "I'd kill you to protect my kids." That rings frightfully true to any mother.

Isn't it funny how "in the world" there are only three ways to take a stance on the issue: Pro-Life, Pro-Choice, or completely Pro-Abortion? (I've never known anyone to take the latter stance, butcha never know some sicko's out there.) The Church puts it into a whole new light. Pro-Love & Pro-You'reNotInChargeGodIs.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Great Article!!!

What we need to do first is do away with whole "viability" paradigm. All it does is allows us to define "life", "human being" and "homo sapien" based on political, instead of biological terms.

Once we get passed political definitions and worse yet, "buzzwords", only then can we have legitimate discussions about when one human being can end the life of another.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Good article and good points.





Umm.......which Church would that be exactly?
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Angela is quoting some leaders from the LDS (mormon) church.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think using abortion as birth control is wrong. I knew a woman that did. Instead of spending the $20 or $30 a month for birth control this woman would just go get an abortion. I do not support that. I am pro-choice. Not pro-abuse.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
My only thought is this. Outside life/death situations, is there ever a need to kill an unborn child when people literally wait years to adopt a baby? In terms of finances and healthcare, there are options there. There are services available, both private and public, for women who need help.

As for choice, I don't want to start conflicts in what seems to be (for once) a civil conversation on the subject. I'll just say that the discussion in our society is more often about streamlining, sanitizing, and desensitizing, rather than "choice".

Someone here admitted to me once that they believed a child, found to be mentally handicapped pre-natally, should be aborted. Others have said that women who find themselves pregnant without the financial ability to support a child should "do the responsible thing" and abort it.

"Choice" seems to be a slippery slope.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Outside life/death situations, is there ever a need to kill an unborn child when people literally wait years to adopt a baby?

Personnally, I don't think so. I cried every month for years when I wasn't pregnant. It took us 3 years to have our first child. Every person who considered an abortion for "birth control" was throwing away the one thing I wanted and couldn't have.....


"Choice" seems to be a slippery slope.

Yes....but at what point do we take away the choice?
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Yes....but at what point do we take away the choice?"


That's the point where "I don't want to start conflicts in what seems to be (for once) a civil conversation on the subject."
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top


Thank you very much!
God bless
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Yes....but at what point do we take away the choice?"That's the point where "I don't want to start conflicts in what seems to be (for once) a civil conversation on the subject."


It was more of a hypothetical/personal question to ponder...there is no clear answer to that one. And I want to thank all those out there who manage to stay so civilized on my blog....It makes me so happy not to have a crazy, mean fight going on......
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
"... I think that using abortion as birth control is heinous. i think it shows a disregard for the gift of life. A gift from God. Even if you disagree with the religious aspect....it is still destroying a child."


i wonder if those chicks that are using abortion as a form of birth control actually know what they are doing to their wombs? Everytime a fetus is aborted your insides are scraped out causing irrevokable damage:

Suction-Aspiration: In this method, the cervical muscle ring must be paralyzed and stretched open. The abortionist then inserts a hollow plastic tube with a knife-like edge into the uterus. The suction tears the fetus into pieces. The placenta is cut from the uterine wall and everything is sucked into a bottle.

Dilation and Curettage (D and C): This is similar to a suction procedure except a curette, a loop-shaped steel knife is inserted into the uterus. The fetus and placenta are cut into pieces and scraped out into a basin. Bleeding is usually very heavy with this method.

(taken from: http://www.abortionfacts.com/)

after just one abortion your chances of getting pregnant again are severely minimised with those odds becoming greater the more often the proceedure is done.

now believe it or not but I have had a D&C abortion in the bathtub of a friends house when i was very young. I now no longer know whether i can present my future husband (whomever he is!) with a child. But that is my lot. Regardless of this, or maybe because of it, I am pro-life...

we live in a day and age when birth control options are far and away better and more readily available then they have ever been. okay so you don't want to take a small tablet in the morning? get a diaphragm or a lunelle injection! it's not rocket science...

*shrugs*
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
I so agree, and I have written out a very similar 'pro (early) choice but anti-abortion position in an essay on my blog -- the AmbivAbortion rant on AmbivaBlog. (I don't think this comment feature accepts URLs, but it should be easy to find.)

The comments section is full of debate. Please come read and join in.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
I still don't understand why abortion is wrong if it isn't murder. Unlike kids drinking and having sex, abortion endangers nobody but the woman who's having the abortion, and she's an adult, so she knows the dangers. If anything, it's not nearly as bad as drinking or smoking. It's on the same level as masturbation.