Reply #51 January 26, 2005 10:09 PM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Adam Michael ...had they known about the inherent dangers of the habit it's a safe bet it would have ranked a mention .... somewhere...

BTW....I smoke [not habitually], and am not American....

Reply #52 January 26, 2005 10:35 PM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Being a non-smoker, my problem with smokers is that overall most don't seem to show that they care about those who don't wish to be around the smoke. Its this lack of respect that bothers me. Go ahead and smoke if you wish to ingest something unnatural, just keep it away from me. It is the only addiction that directly affects others besides the user.
It is difficult I understand when it comes to public places. Who should "win". However it isn't really a matter of winning. Smoking is being banned in places because you can't ban clean air, or require non-smokers to smoke.
Why not just face the facts and realize you have a habit and in order to "enjoy" that habit you should respect others who wish not to indulge in that habit.
We don't want you to stop smoking (though that would be best for you), we just are asking that you not force us to smoke secondhand.

Reply #53 January 26, 2005 10:55 PM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Thumbs up to Sleeping Dragon for arguing the point of those that wish to live full, healthy, long lives.

Whats the figure... a pack takes a month off of your lifespan? Something along those lines...

Reply #54 January 26, 2005 11:08 PM from WinCustomize Forums Top

I smoke.
When it becomes "illegal" to smoke within the confines of my own home(and it eventually will), I'll be a law breaker.*Shrug*.
as far as having constitutional rights taken away, Smoking is not free speech, it is not religious ritual(in most cases), it is not involved in the right to bear arms(though the government agency that deals with smoking also dealswith arms), it is not preventing anyone from due process (yet,.... but they're working on it, especially where insurance companies are concerned.eventually if you smoke no court in the land will rule in your favor in a case involving denial of insurance payment for smoke related injuries or illness.), it doesn't involve illegal search and seizure(yet, ....because it is not yet illegal to possess or use tobacco products), and it can't effect whether or not the government can take your land(unless of course you live in a state that bans the farming of tobacco , in which case you can in fact lose your land to the government.) I think there's a few others on the list I am probably missing, and I may have confused an amendment or two with constitutional right, but the two go hand in hand, but you get my gist.
Smokers "rights" have nothing whatsoever to do with the constitution of the united states.
As I recall, though, Drinkers "rights" have been violated once before in this country, with a devastating and long lasting effect. Drinkers regained their "rights",eventually. So maybe for you , wmsco, there is hope in getting back your"rights",... but don't count on it.

Reply #55 January 26, 2005 11:32 PM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Wulfn - I don't think that cigarettes will ever be banned here in the US becuase there would be a big riot if they were.

Reply #56 January 26, 2005 11:38 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

You know Ghos I respect that and  would comply cheerfully as not hinder you in anyway as it should be. The other side of the coin even though I gave way to your rights,feelings and respect they totally blew mine off and started making and passing laws and restrictions and i agree on some I would'nt want to smoke in a hospital or such common sense things as that But the point I have been trying to make is: What has been a issue here,. is they passed laws governing life styles and yet the nation does not stand as a whole. Meaning we will have more laws made and more abundantly without regard or respect to other life styles this leaves the door open to legal predigest!  A Just law would consider both sides and not make way for a minority.
As a nation we must not pass laws and endorse the opposite in our open market

Reply #57 January 26, 2005 11:54 PM from WinCustomize Forums Top

People are funny!

If I want to die of old age....let me
If I want to die for my country...let me
If I want to die of lung cancer...let me
If I want to die just cause I wanna die...let me

We're all gonna die of something....and That you can't control!

Get over it, stop complaining and......Live

Reply #58 January 27, 2005 12:03 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Perhaps....but when something you do adversely affects someone else...not gonna happen like that. We all have a right to be protected from such things, just because there's a constituion and all this crap about rights and what not...you don't have the right to try to kill me or anyone else in your own suicidal mission. That seems to be the crucial point that the topic starter and his followers just can't grasp.

Reply #59 January 27, 2005 12:08 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Bebi Bulma...Here's the deal! You have absolutely no control over what happens to you, sweetheart.

Reply #60 January 27, 2005 12:12 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

You could get hit by a truck tomorrow, how could you stop it? When your time is up....well you know. Like China said......live

Reply #61 January 27, 2005 12:25 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Yes but that truck driver would likely be arrested and most likely charged with assault with a deadly weapon (if under the influence or something) or a ticket for running a red light, a civil law suit for any sorts of things, something like that depending on the circumstances. You can't just do anything you want when it affects other people in a harmful way and say you can because it's your "right", it just doesn't work that way.

*sigh* Why don't people have respect for anyone else these days...if you want to smoke fine, other people around you probably don't and yet you force it onto them. Sorry if I'd like to be able to breathe without running the risk of breathing in second hand smoke and developing cancer.

As you said, I'd like to be able to live my life without having to breathe second hand smoke being forced down my throat.

Reply #62 January 27, 2005 12:36 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Maybe that truck driver was just trying to make a living to support his family, got tired and dozed off and drove his truck into you. Are you going to cry " Where were the sleep Police" ?

I think most people are good people...some make bad choices.

You have no control......

Enjoy the Ride

Reply #63 January 27, 2005 1:29 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

*sigh* Why don't people have respect for anyone else these days...if you want to smoke fine, other people around you probably don't and yet you force it onto them. Sorry if I'd like to be able to breathe without running the risk of breathing in second hand smoke and developing cancer.

Try this: Everytime I step outside I have to breathe the polluted air that comes from peoples cars like yours. I fail to see the difference since cars produce most of the same deadly gases that cigarettes do. In fact they produce more and is probably why global warmoing is happening, Yet I do not sit here and say driving is wrong.

Everyone is pointing fingers but yet everyone is part of the problem. Even if your a non smoker your still in some small way affecting others around you by polluting.

Reply #64 January 27, 2005 1:40 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Yes but once again...there are laws about restricting the pollution emitted by cars, ie: smog checks. If your car doesn't pass, you can't get it registered. Limiting smokers' ability to smoke in public places is the SAME thing.

And this law has been in action for something like 10 years (I think?). As some of you have said to us non-smokers, get over it (can go both ways you see).

Reply #65 January 27, 2005 1:46 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

What has been a issue here,. is they passed laws governing life styles and yet the nation does not stand as a whole.

The laws being passed that governed your "rights" or freedom to smoke where you choose were created by the duly elected officials that the majority of folks voted for....the will of the people. Can a group of folks that are in the minority in numbers be heard, change public opinion, make a difference in America? Yes they can and that is why America doesn't suck. Will it happen with smokers' "rights" being upheld? I'm afraid it won't, because the activity is a health risk for others, not just the smoker.

As for the fear that one day you will not be able to smoke in your own home or vehicle....this is a states' rights issue and just as many other laws have been enacted, because someone recognized the potential physical and/or mental harm that may become a child, you may find your state legislators enacting rules concerning children and smoking around them, since the state represents their best interests above yours.

Reply #66 January 27, 2005 1:50 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

You don't half to breath my smoke you have a choice, leave but god for bid that! Your being just as selfish as you claim the smokers are! the validity of your points is true but you have become blind to what has been said you are allowing laws and restrictions to be applied that are paving the way, the doors swung wide open, quote {there working on it} unquote,and they will come against your life style untill eventually there is only one exceptable lifestyle and being ignorant you allow it to happen because of legistration already done. You have failed to grasp that! All because it supported your lifstyle. all the injustices already done while you were on the other side of the fence but one day you will be on the other side and you won't have a leg to stand on because you allowed it to happen!!! Maybe I should of used something else instead of the constituion but i know this from the time i step out of my house i have rights and freedom of choice and untill the time i came home and while i'm at home and it does not matter if you like them or not because you have the same choice but when you start making laws and restrictions taking away my LAW BIDING choices it is wrong no matter the LAW BIDING SITUATIONS it is wrong and it will bite you back. you have become so worried over the situation you forgot to look around and see what is happening. THAT IS MY POINT If you still dont understand then it been fun (get your eyes off the smoking and look at whats being done)bye

Reply #67 January 27, 2005 1:56 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

they would have no customers if they tried that here....same goes for restaurants....

Oh, yeah? That no-one can be sure of. As of April last year, all smoking in public places were banned in Norway. and we now see an increase in people going to restaurants, clubs etc. Most people do in fact like to eat in a clean place with clean air (at least where I come from), even though they may be smokers, and I must say I like to come home from from a night on the town with my clothes not smelling like an ashtray.

If I smoke? Yes.

Reply #68 January 27, 2005 1:58 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Wait a minute, why should we have to leave for wanting to breathe air that is free from toxic carcinogens?? Are you out of your mind? Well EXCUSE ME for having to breathe...you do know it is an involuntary action (or maybe you don't?). So now we're being selfish for breathing....give me a break.

The laws were passed to PROTECT people. That's what the elected officials are there for...to serve and protect.

I feel like I'm talking to my cat (you know how they just ignore you).

Reply #69 January 27, 2005 2:05 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Yes but once again...there are laws about restricting the pollution emitted by cars, ie: smog checks.

Oregon dosen't have smog laws.

by the way I am a Smoker and I say if my smoke offends you - leave. I do go out of my way to make sure I smoke away from others and I smoke outside. I don't think smoking will ever be outlawed - too many smoke and that would start a riot. But here's some food for thought: Smoking is not the number 1 killer in the US. Guess what is? People being overweight.

And I am quite sure Alcohol kills more people than cigarettes if you figure in drunk driving and all.

Reply #70 January 27, 2005 2:22 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Actually heart disease in general is the number 1 cause, not obesity (although obesity can lead to heart disease). Cancer is second...and guess what smoking leads to...cancer.

But once again, why should I have to leave a public place, that is protected by laws and such passed to protect me as a citizen, just so that I can breathe clean air? I have a right to breathe clean air, I'm not going to give that up to indulge smokers in their path of self-destruction. If you want to slowly kill yourself...fine, none of my business, just don't drag me down with you.

Reply #71 January 27, 2005 2:24 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

they will come against your life style untill eventually there is only one exceptable lifestyle and being ignorant you allow it to happen because of legistration already done. You have failed to grasp that! All because it supported your lifstyle.

The only point I'll concede to you in your entire #66 post is that I am most probably ignorant. Ignorant for smoking the last 21-years of my life and continuing to do so.

BTW who is this mystical they you keep referring to if it isn't the government officials you and I and our peers elected? I'm assuming since you keep talking about the constitution that you are from America and not some backwater dictatorship where people don't have real rights or a say in how they are governed. When "they" enact laws to inhibit or ban your, as you put it, "law abiding choices" then your choices are no longer law abiding. There was a time when LSD and cocaine were legal here and changing attitudes about marijuana has made use of it in certain situations...medical use...legal in some states. What's acceptable by society changes and will continue to change, hopefully for the best for the majority of folks.

Yrgal is right about businesses that provide for social gathering and activities that ban smoking. Generally their patronage increases.

Reply #72 January 27, 2005 2:30 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

But once again, why should I have to leave a public place, that is protected by laws and such passed to protect me as a citizen, just so that I can breathe clean air? I have a right to breathe clean air, I'm not going to give that up to indulge smokers in their path of self-destruction. If you want to slowly kill yourself...fine, none of my business, just don't drag me down with you.

My whole point is the fact we have no fresh clean air thanks to Pollution that everyone has caused.

Reply #73 January 27, 2005 2:38 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Now what I do have an issue with is the taxes placed by state and local governments on tobacco products. If the monies garnered were to be used to offset healthcare costs, provide rehabilitative services, public education about the dangers of tobacco products and go toward medical research of cancer and heart diseases that would be one thing, but the government uses the monies for other purposes, school funding, road repair, etc. The government has a "captive" audience and both smokers and nonsmokers alike should be pushing to have this changed. Not the amount of taxes or if there should be any taxes at all on tobacco products, but where and how the money is spent, because spending those monies on the issues I mentioned above will benefit everyone in the long run.

Reply #74 January 27, 2005 4:20 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

oops sorry Jafo......is there another word i can use instead ??
i didn't mean it to be disrespectful....discussions can get heated sometimes
again....i'm sorry

Reply #75 January 27, 2005 6:10 AM from WinCustomize Forums Top

Stop being so selfish and thinking only about things that affect you and the lifestyle in your lifetimes!
Why not instead concentrate on things that will have a better impact on your younger generations and those to come.

We're so consumed with our own personal happiness and prosperity that we're so easily offended when something comes to challenge us in order to make the future better for our children and their children.

Governments and lawmakers should always make laws that will aid in the betterment of society as a whole.
There is nothing good about smoking. It has no redeeming qualities or attributes. It is a poison and a carcinogenic substance and is addictive and therefore a negative influence on society as a whole.
Imagine what kind of society we would be creating if everyone could smoke. It would only have a negative impact for our future.

Smoking should never have been allowed to become so popular in the first place. We're paying for the mistakes of our forefathers and now we're trying to correct the error and change our way of thinking. Get with the picture.
Think of your children. Look them in the eye and think seriosly about what you're supporting.
If you still support the smoking issue, you might as well give them a lit cigarrette right now.

My two cents.