Graner's going down!

from JoeUser Forums

Charles Graner, one of the soldiers at the center of the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal has been found guilty of all charges bought against him.

The Jury took less than 5 hours to return it's verdict.

 

Graner faces up to 17 years in jail for his crimes....and I hope he gets the max.  He's a jackass of the highest order, he bought shame upon the good names of many US servicemembers. 

You're going down, Graner.  I, and a good many of the American public, am rejoicing.

P.S. You might wanna think about keeping your ass to the wall in your new 'home'.....

2,372 views 19 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
K~

Right on, girl! We have no right to treat other people, no matter their color or status, that way when they are under American military control, or for ANY reason for that matter. It's war time, and even though it's war, there are certain guidelines of moral conduct that must be followed. No human deserves to be treated like those poor prisoners were...

It just makes me sad.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think this is a verrrry good thing.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: Texas WahinePosted: Friday, January 14, 2005I think this is a verrrry good thing.


gently I say.... having spent time in the brig 30 days, and time in same brig as a "chaser" and a guard.. I have to say its not a fun thing. I hate to see a serviceperson do time.... and I think being happy to see him found guilty is also sad.

btw I had to think abvout this reply a long time as I did not want to offend you,, I still do not want to and hope this does not offend,
Please do not let this become an issue between us as I like your stuff and respect your opinion, ok?
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
moderateman: I'm not offended. I just think that it's appropriate and neccessary for him to be punished for his crimes. He did some really messed up stuff and brought disgrace to the Army and to his country. He's a criminal.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: Texas WahinePosted: Friday, January 14, 2005moderateman: I'm not offended. I just think that it's appropriate and neccessary for him to be punished for his crimes. He did some really messed up stuff and brought disgrace to the Army and to his country. He's a criminal.


I agree totally............. I just think being happy about it makes me sad.k?
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm not neccessarily happy . . . I just think it needed to be done, and I'm glad that it was. I can understand your feelings, though.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

Dharma,

I think it was 9 0f 10.  But I am not complaining.

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ya think he needs to bend over, grab his ankles, and spell RUN? Sorry, it's an old jail joke...
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

have to say its not a fun thing. I hate to see a serviceperson do time.... and I think being happy to see him found guilty is also sad.

If he wants to call himself a 'serviceperson' he should behave in accordance with the UCMJ.  He failed to do that.  I'm glad he was found guilty, he absolutely deserved it.

My husband is what amounts to the military's version of a warden for the jail here on the base we're stationed at.  Graner's actions have directly impacted his career field, and that pisses me off...that's why I'm happy to see justice served.

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
My husband is what amounts to the military's version of a warden for the jail here on the base we're stationed at. Graner's actions have directly impacted his career field, and that pisses me off...that's why I'm happy to see justice served.


Me too. I'm sick and FUCKING tired of people thinking that just because you work in a jail or a prison you are sadistic and power tripping. I guess it's like a priest that resents being stereotyped as a child molester. I remember one guy who was a severe "brittle" diabetic that had a blood sugar crash and nearly went into a coma. He was nearly out and sweating and unresponsive. We called 911 for EMTs and I sat him up and had to almost fight him to put some glucose in him and bring him around. A few hours later his dear sweet mom called me a torturer. Go figure...
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

I'm sick and FUCKING tired of people thinking that just because you work in a jail or a prison you are sadistic and power tripping.

Exactly.  Not to mention the inmates using Graner's actions to their advantage...he totally deserves what he gets.  Depending on how much time he gets, there's a decent chance that he'll end up at Leavenworth where they house the worst of the military's worst.....and he's going to be the most picked on, bullied, hated inmate there.  He's going to be a 'dirty' cop/guard.....inmates hate those. 

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
No problems with this guy going to prison, just a shame that those in charge get off scott free, and in some cases are fronting up to the media with their fiened disgust.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hello Dharma,

Long time, no see. How are you. Hope you do remember me.

You are still as great as before.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Interesting. Terrorists themselves don't at all adhere to the 'codes of moral conduct' regarding war. In fact, the Geneva Conference does not apply to those who hide behind civilian clothes, false handshakes and live grenades. Nor are the religious extremists to be protected while using innocent locals as "tools" for a hostile blowup.

Jihad itself is not a group of freedom fighters from one country, nor a group of revolutionary rebels. Jihad is about hatred, misplaced "religious" values and mental illness. A dog-collar around the neck isn't the beginning of what our opposition deserves.

Support our US troops.


Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

A dog-collar around the neck isn't the beginning of what our opposition deserves.


Oh so we should sink to their level, huh?  Becsue they're boming us and killing our soldiers, we should be able to treat them like graner et al did and get away with it?  That's bullshit.


Support our US troops.


I do, actively, every day.  I won't say that I've done more to support this country than you have because I'm not going to make this a pissing contest....but I will say that I sacfrice and will continue to do so so that you and yours can enjoy the liberties and freedoms you've come to enjoy.


I'm married to a US serviceman, you see.  One that's deployed frequently and for extemded periods of time, one who knows and upholds the true meaning of 'service before self'.


Support our troops...yes, but as I said before, if they want to remain troops, they have to abide by the rules and regulations contained in the UCMJ.  If they don't do that...well, they're not better than the terrorists they're trying to stop.

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
I do believe Graner was following orders. That's not to say that what he did was excusable. It was hideous. I do agree that he must shoulder some responsibility for his actions. He really did seem to enjoy it alot, also. But, I have to agree with a previous poster here that it's a cryin' shame that the higher ups who gave him the orders, right up to Ashcroft and Gonzales, and Bush, should be held accountable. They are the ones, after all, who set the stage for this crap to take place. Graner is just a fall guy here. He got ten years for his actions. He's gonna come out of jail a very bitter man, and hopefully he'll have the presence of mind to direct his anger at the leadership that put him there. He got royally screwed.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

I do believe Graner was following orders.


Each and every servicemember is trained in LOAC (Law Of Armed Conflict).  LOAC specifically states that if a person is given an order they believe to be unlawful they MUST disobey it.  To obey leaves them just as culpable as the person issuing the unlawful order.  Graner knew the LOAC stipulations, and it's not a one-time training, it's an annual requirement...so for him to say he didn't know...well, that's bullshit, to be blunt.


I absolutely agree that those further up the chain of command should be held responsible IF they issued unlawful orders.  They're not stupid, though.  They issued orders to 'soften' prisoners, but they left the methods and manners of accomplishing such 'softenings' in the hands of the guards.  They covered their asses, in other words. 


He won't do the full ten....if he behaves himself  he'll end up doing 5 or 6. 


 

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
dharmagrl, I am aware of the LOAC stipulations. That's why I feel that he has to be held responsible. He's obviously a real shithead. He obviously really enjoyed his work. That's what makes him so dispiccable, and why he got the 10 year sentence. But, he was given orders. Gonzales, Ashcroft and Bush redefined "torture" to enable this crap. And, now they are shifting the blame to the small potatos. They are the most dispicable in this whole miserable fiasco. They should ultimately be held accountable. Sounds like you and I are on the same page here. It really is a no-brainer.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

dharmagrl, I am aware of the LOAC stipulations

I'm very impressed with that...

Gonzales, Ashcroft and Bush redefined "torture" to enable this crap

Yeah, whenever the shit hits the fan, the semantics start.  Not the first government to do that, and certainly not the last.  It's despicable, really...that people can use different words and twist meanings in order to get away with stuff.

Sounds like you and I are on the same page here.

Yep, it does.....at last!!!