Are Murders Insane

Or just Crazy?

from JoeUser Forums

Most of us have heard that they threw out the conviction of Andrea Yates, even tho she confessed to it.  While I really think she is as crazy as a loon, this is not about her.

Locally, Richmond VA has been consistently in the top 10 when it comes to murder rates, and 2004 will be no exception with 95 murders in a population of 200k.

The way local governments work in Va, Counties are completely independant of Cities.  And the surrounding counties, while being half again as large people wise, usually have a murder rate commensuate with other urban countines, not a murder capitol.

So it came as somewhat of a shock that the first murder of the year occurred in one of the counties. But that is not the half of it.

The Victim was a 4 year old boy, and the perps?  His mother and boy fiend! (not a typo).  They were 'disciplining' him!  My GOD how bad can a 4 year old be to beat him to death!  This was not the work of some fruitcake like Andrea yates, this was just pure evil!  Bullies taking their impotence out on a poor child!

It makes me sick.  I am against the death penalty, but this case makes me want to be judge jury AND executioner!  I have 4 children, and while I do beleive in spanking, never more than that!  ANd never more than smacks on the butt!  Beating a small child like that is the purest form of evil!  ANd even thos I know these people are crazy, that is no excuse this time!

I really doubt they will get the chair, as it will be very hard for the state to prove pre-meditation.  SO they will hopefully rot in prison fore the rest of their lives!

And the ps to this sad tale?  The boy had a 3 year old sister that was beaten almost to death.  SHe is now in the hospital and will undoubtably be placed in the foster care system.  Not for anything she did, but due to an accident of birth.

It is sickening!

3,974 views 35 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Here is where we part ways my friend,,, I do believe in the death sentance.... anbd in many cases this is well deserved,

Child killers, rapist,,, killers in general should be put to death..

The one time crime of passion killers should not ...

Any parent that kills there child by beating them to death should be drawn and quartered slowly.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

Any parent that kills there child by beating them to death should be drawn and quartered slowly.

Right now, hearing the story unfold, I am very tempted to say yes!  My Heart wants to, but I know in my head it is wrong.

Dont get the wrong, I think that there are crimes that make ones blood boil and I do see red.  But I beleive that it is no man's right to take the life of another, even when richly deserved (this does not apply to self defense and war of course).

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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
To me, there is no reason to try to seperate this crime from any other Involuntary manslauter. The two oxygen thieves in question may not have intended to kill this child, but he did die as a result of their actions.

Their excuse was that they were just "disciplining" him doesn't change the fact that they killed him. All they are trying to do with this excuse is try to appeal to other parents, hoping we all can identify with how frustrating it can be when a child is unruly.

Like you, I have nothing against spanking a young child, much like how you describe here. However, what these wastes of human flesh are hoping to blurr any line between a few quick swats on the behind and a beating, severe enough to cause harm or even kill.

Let's hope their excuses fall on deaf ears.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
I breathe a sigh of relief knowing I will never be compelled to sit on a jury for a case like this. My feelings on the appropriate punishment go far past the realm of legality.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: ParaTed2kPosted: Friday, January 07, 2005To me, there is no reason to try to seperate this crime from any other Involuntary manslauter. The two oxygen thieves in question may not have intended to kill this child, but he did die as a result of their actions.Their excuse was that they were just "disciplining" him doesn't change the fact that they killed him. All they are trying to do with this excuse is try to appeal to other parents, hoping we all can identify with how frustrating it can be when a child is unruly.Like you, I have nothing against spanking a young child, much like how you describe here. However, what these wastes of human flesh are hoping to blurr any line between a few quick swats on the behind and a beating, severe enough to cause harm or even kill.Let's hope their excuses fall on deaf ears.


AMEN one can only hope they get a scott peterson like jury
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: Dr. GuyPosted: Friday, January 07, 2005


But I beleive that it is no man's right to take the life of another,


yer a good man that stands strongly in therr convictions I applaud you/ even when I disagree with them
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

To me, there is no reason to try to seperate this crime from any other Involuntary manslauter. The two oxygen thieves in question may not have intended to kill this child, but he did die as a result of their actions.

Their excuse was that they were just "disciplining" him doesn't change the fact that they killed him. All they are trying to do with this excuse is try to appeal to other parents, hoping we all can identify with how frustrating it can be when a child is unruly.

Ted, 2 things.  Oxygen thieves?  Never heard of it, but I like that!

Second, any parent knows when too much is too much.  That excuse may fly in California (maybe not after SP), but parents know when too much is too much.

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

I breathe a sigh of relief knowing I will never be compelled to sit on a jury for a case like this. My feelings on the appropriate punishment go far past the realm of legality.

I agree with that.  Just he brutatily of the crime would prejudice me against them.  I could not listen to any more evidence than the coroner's report to convict them in a heartbeat.

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Any parent that kills there child by beating them to death should be drawn and quartered slowly.


I especially agree with that sentiment eventhough I can't imagine this women Yates being anything other than inflicted- 'sick' in the f**cking head.

However, even by the most conservative estimates, government (whether Federal or state) has a history of unintentionally putting innocent people to death. Even if it the government is only mistaken one percent of the time.... well that mistake can not be undone.

The republican governor of Massachusetts proposed reinstating the death penalty, but the standard of proof to execute would be raised from reasonable doubt standard to no doubt what-so-ever.
It's a tough call. I've changed my position and am now against it. It's not fail-safe and that's too high a price to pay. What can I say, I'm getting soft-hearted in my old age.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Update.  The mother and boyfriend have been charged with 'Accidental' Death.  Accidental my Ass! Animals!
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
These people are obviously not insane or crazy...they are evil!
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Update. The mother and boyfriend have been charged with 'Accidental' Death


My posting was....

Is that like almost pregnant?
Seriously though, I am opposed to the death penalty, but in cases like these society really has no other alternative.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

These people are obviously not insane or crazy...they are evil!

While I am passionate about politics, this just hurts me to the core and it is not politics.  It is humanity.  I know, and I agree.  I had to post it as it is so evil.  They showed a picture in the local paper of the little boy.  And that hurts even more.  A young life that is no more because of 2 lives that should never have been. 

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

Did I not post a reply here? What happened to it?

Mano, I did not delete any.  Honest!  This is not an issue that any post is wrong, or even debateable (other than the death penalty and I would really not like to debate it here).

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

Is that like almost pregnant?
Seriously though, I am opposed to the death penalty, but in cases like these society really has no other alternative.

Peace Mano.  No.  Mandatory sterilization of both and life in prison?  yes.  Dont compromise for the grossness of the crime.  And let the ACLU beat their breast about the sterilization.  That is not killing, that is preventing killing.

IN passion, I would say death to the evil people.  But in reasoned and faithful thought, that will not bring back that poor child.  Denying them any other children to harm and putting them in an 8x10 cell (probably only for 15 years based upon the charge!) will suffice.

 

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: hitparadePosted: Friday, January 07, 2005


. Even if it the government is only mistaken one percent of the time.... well that mistake can not be undone.


estimates its wrong 6% of the time .. that tryanslates to 6 out of every 100 prisoners that should not be there.. and 6 death sentences for innocent men
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Its hard for any cairing human to be objective when it comes to the murder of defence less children, yet it happens way to much, are murders insane, this depends on whether you use the states version of this or you consider all mental illness as insanity. Most countries consider a person insane when they are no longer are able to tell the difference between what is right and wrong ( taliking from the oint of view of the law and murder , medicine and its professionals have a much mpore involved process), many people try to use the insanity plea, mainly because they or thier lawyer knows that most people believe that you would be insane to kill someone in the first place. However in most cases the fact is that most people who kill are sane , which makes it all the harder to fathom. Having said that they may be sociopathic or psychopathic, these people can undersatnd just like the rest of us what is right and wrong and know exactly what the consequencers will be, and in most cases are very intelligent , intelligent enough to try an convience others of their percieved madness.

In brief are murders insane, no sick yes, shold they be locked away for good yes, put to death , well two wrongs don't make a right, especially when the person in the chair is innocent. Also on the question of execution, have a thought for those that have to do this, sadly many of these people are not designed to do this job why I here you ask, well most people are not natural born killers, and to take the life of another especially in such a clinical and premediated way is actually quite traumatic, and in many cases when executioners are studied it has been found that many are at best sociaopaths displaying no empathy for others, and in the right circumstances could well be the person ion the chair, this is by no way an indictment of all, just making the point that most that kill do so for selfish reasons generally only known to them, and reasoning which would not even make sense to us.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
I do believe in the Death Penalty. Cases like this make me wish comic characters like The Punisher were real people, you know?
There was a similar case a while back in a city near my hometown. These people (woman and boyFIEND) took the woman's little girl, about the same age, to the mall, where she died and they dumped her body. When it all came out, they had starved the little girl for months, not giving her any food, little water, keeping her in a closet and not letting her use the bathroom, not even letting her bathe. Why? Because she didn't belong to the psycho boyfriend.
And because the pathetic, dumbass, miserable excuse for a woman was liking the dick she was getting rammed to her, she went right along with it. They're both in prison for a long, long time.......on my dime and yours, of course----and that, right there, is the reason I believe in the Death Penalty.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
Let me clarify a little bit......they were going to abandon her at the mall, and she chose the terribly rude and inopportune moment to die, when she was in the car. So they just dumped her off, rolling her down over the bank from the parking lot into a drainage ditch full of weeds and trash.
They beat her, too, if she messed herself or did it in her closet. The little food she did get came sneaked to her from her little half-sister, the daughter of the boyfiend. If the sister got caught feeding her or letting her out to use the bathroom, she was punished.
They were the most hated people in the Upper Ohio Valley for months...they needed state troopers to escort them to and from jail and court.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Murder in any for is repulsive, when it happens to defenceless children, and to do it in such a long painfull and cruel manner is something that disgusts even the most hardened of hearts. My reaction and that of most is to want these people dragged through the street and be put through the same torture they put their victims through this is a normal reaction. However comments like the following tend to make one wonder about the author, [They're both in prison for a long, long time.......on my dime and yours, of course----and that, right there, is the reason I believe in the Death Penalty.], while it really pisses me off to think my tax dollars go to housing people like this, I do not support the death penality, and thankfully we do not have it in Australia, for many reasons, one being that is any easy way out for many of these people, a life in jail is far more punishing in my estimation. What I do find repulsive is the fact that once they are in prison, we then put them in special protective custody because we know that the general population are even so repulsed that they would torture and kill them, whilist I know this is just as bad as having a law to let the state do it for us, I know this but I still would love to see these people suffer the way their victims did. Its interesting when you see interviews with the families of these inocent children, the ones that did love them if any did, or for that matter familys of all murder victims, after the perp has been executed, many comment that they wanted and sought closure and believed this would, many do get this and I think that is great, many others say that it gives them no comfort at all, with some even expressing the view that that rot in jail. The death penality is a vexing question I know but state santioned executions are not the answer, no matter how low the mistake rate, and is to open to abuse for those in a position to do this. Also with these people locked away for life the cost to the commmunity is propably no different to the cost for the repeated appeals that go on for many years, and in most cases still resulting in death at the end, just dragging out the process, and not to mention the fact of cost of special housing for these people , that requires special cells and their own facilities, not to mention the cost to the community of having the court system locked up in these appeals, while those who need help have to wait, by the way I am aware that people who get life do appeal as well, however the amount of appeals and time taken up is generally lower, mainly due o the fact that most of these lawyers make more money in private practice as oppose to pro bono work, so sadly in some cases these people are not keen to proceed with appeals beacuse of the pure economics, also a lot of this type of work ends up with Junior lawyers wanting to make a name for themselves, or those just trying to get experience, because they command a smaller fee, in many cases this is true for death penality convictions, however this does tend to attract the anti death penality crusaders who are happy to do this low paid work because they do npt believe in the death penality. I know I am rambling again.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Mano, I did not delete any. Honest!


I believe you Doc... my puters been doing strange things lately....
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Let me clarify a little bit......they were going to abandon her at the mall, and she chose the terribly rude and inopportune moment to die, when she was in the car. So they just dumped her off, rolling her down over the bank from the parking lot into a drainage ditch full of weeds and trash.They beat her, too, if she messed herself or did it in her closet. The little food she did get came sneaked to her from her little half-sister, the daughter of the boyfiend. If the sister got caught feeding her or letting her out to use the bathroom, she was punished.They were the most hated people in the Upper Ohio Valley for months...they needed state troopers to escort them to and from jail and court.


As I said before "Oxygen Thieves".
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top

estimates its wrong 6% of the time .. that tryanslates to 6 out of every 100 prisoners that should not be there.. and 6 death sentences for innocent men

Yes, a dead man has no appeals.  That is another reason, even when the evidence is overwhelming.

Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top

In brief are murders insane, no sick yes, shold they be locked away for good yes, put to death , well two wrongs don't make a right, especially when the person in the chair is innocent.

Zergimmi, I gave you an insightful and would have loved to have quoted your entire response.  But did not want to repeat you!  Suffice it to say, you have looked at the black hole, and seen the devil.  And you have your own strong opinions.  Of which I almost totally agree.

Maybe it is just me.  I cant see how a sane rational person could do such a thing.  I will not argeu medical or legal definitions.  that is just my 'feelings'.  Guess I would make a lousy juror. eh?

Thank you very much for that.  I am saving it.  maybe it will help in the future when another one of these crimes occur.