Anti-Christmas in Bible?

It Started 2000 Years Ago (Short)

Anti-Christmas in the Christmas Bible Story???? The Biblical account celebrates the day of Christ's birth in Luke 2 and the Gospel of Matthew but, the story of Christ's birth doesn't end there. The Biblical account also reminds us of the slaughter of the innocent infants, (Mt. 2:16-18) , that suffered as a result of Herod's attempt to destroy Christ AT the DAY of His birth. It's not surprising to see those who zealously work today, to destroy celebration of the day OF Christ's birth.... Herod tried it first, 2,000 years ago. Yep, Herod was the first one to try to stomp out Christmas.

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Reply #1 Top
I love that last line! Awesome and profound!
Reply #2 Top

It's not surprising to see those who zealously work today, to destroy celebration of the day OF Christ's birth

i dont know of any zealous attempts to destroy the celebration of christmas in this country.  if youre referring to legal challenges to sectarian exhibits or activities on or involving publicly-owned property or tax-funded programs, your statement is an extreme exageration/misconstrual of both intent and consequence. it's not a matter of destroying anything but protecting/ensuring every citizen's right to engage in his or her preferred  religous expression without attaching to any one faith or belief the appearance of government endorsement (or lack thereof). 

or...perhaps you meant retailers who'd welcome expanding the christmas season 4 months longer and starting it four months earlier, would happily surround and fill their stores with representational  creches, angels, wise men, shepherds, the holy family, candles, stars, rudolph and his blinking red nose, santa, elves, sleighs, bows, the sounds of carols, jingle bells, etc. etc. to guide shoppers to the true miracle of christmas--its commerical potential. nobody or nothing does more to diminish the true meaning of christmas

i hadnt thought of this for a while, but i guess it's probably a good thing the first celebrations of xmas began 30 years after herod's rampage.  the parents of those boy babies who were slain on herod's orders may not have considered the anniversary of that massacre were very likely dead themselves by 34ad.  thos who werent probably wouldnt have considered that anniversary much of an occasion for joyousness.

Reply #3 Top
I had never thought of it that way, but the paralllels between Herrod and the religious bigots of today are too juicy to ignore!
Reply #4 Top
I had never thought of it that way, but the paralllels between Herrod and the religious bigots of today are too juicy to ignore!


I agree!
Reply #5 Top
Not to put too fine a point on it, but since Herod ordered to kill each LIVING male child, he was trying to forestall Easter, not Christmas.

IG

Reply #6 Top
Actually, since the story appears in only one gospel and no historical sources (although we have detailed records of Herod's reign) it's most likely a fairy tale made up to paint Herod as an "evil king." Herod was responsible for plenty of bad things, but this "murder of the innocents" has no historical proof to back it up -- and only one gospel, written 80 to 100 years after the alleged death of Yeshua of Nazereth.
Reply #7 Top

the paralllels between Herrod and the religious bigots of today are too juicy to ignore


well, who am i to try to argue with reason?  come to think of it, whatta great reason to counter the growing moment to destroy xmas by infusing the traditional celebration with even more new testament authenticity!  herod has been left too long off to the side.  even the merchandisers will go for this one cuz itll add new product to jazz up the the limited character product line by adding new life-like reprensentations of herod AND some dead babies to the shepherds, wise men, manger animals, angels, etc.  

an evil-looking king herod action figure and some little dead babies to scatter around the creche could do a lot to help believers recapture the threat aspect that has been so successfully secularized by attribution to santa claus, the grinch and the economy.  having herod around to 'see you when youre bad' and some dead kids has to be a much more effective deterent to 4th quarter kid sinning than some fat old homeless guy who merely withholds presents.

on a more basic level, it fills a badly neglected guilt void  ('but daddy, werent their parents sad about having their kids killed so the rest of us could have a wonderful holiday?  couldn't god have hidden them someplace so they didnt get killed? well you see kids, whenever bad people try to 'take jesus out' of the equation theyre helping to kill these poor innocent babies.  seeing those dead babies should always remind you of evildoers who dont abstain and wind up having abortions')

let's face it, while there's definitely a place for joy at the birth of christ, too much joy erods a healthy fear of god just like too much candy eventually rots healthy teeth.

Reply #8 Top
KingBee, I honestly cannot see how you cannot see the attacks on Christmas in this country. Let me cite a few examples. Here in my town, Raleigh, No christmas lights. My son's school no longer celebrates christmas, they have a 'winter holiday' party. My work? Can't mention the C word here, and there can be no display of lights, bows, holly, or anything. It's like people are becoming afraid to mention christmas for fear of offending someone.

You know, I will bet money that next year, the christmas decorations will become fewer and fewer. YOu can argue about the almighty corporate dollar, but if things continue on the path they are, I can see Wal-Mart or another big chain coming out with an announcement that they will no longer carry holiday supplies. One or two complaints from people about how there are no Kwanzaa or Hanukah supplies and I can see them back out completely.

Reply #9 Top
Herod's attempt to destroy Christ AT the DAY of His birth


While I agree with the sentiment, it's believed by many biblical scholars that Jesus was probably well into the toddler age when the massacre occured, and I think the gospel is in accordance to that belief.

By the time the magi arrived before Herod, Jesus would already have been up to two years old. From Judea to Bethlehem isn't all that far of a walk, but as soon as Herod realized the Magi had took a powder, instead of coming straight back, he ordered the deaths of all boys two and under "in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi." v.16

Actually, since the story appears in only one gospel and no historical sources


Of course, if you try to rationalise the Bible as a loose "mythical" set of stories it doesn't make rational sense. That's why it's called faith. If God did nothing extraordinary, then what would set our faith apart?

If you believe that God can raise the dead, perform miracles, and bring eternal salvation to our souls (which of course there is no "proof" for as well,) then it's silly not to believe that he can keep a book containing his message to turn out the way that he wants it.

Either you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, or not. If you do, then faith allows for belief in the improbable or "impossible." If you do not, then of course it seems silly to use it as an infallible source. Here endeth the incredibly long comment.
Reply #10 Top
Sabbatismus, who is my father for those that don't already know, wanted me to let anyone reading and commenting know that he is having computer problems logging into JU when he is traveling out of town. He want greatly to continue this discussion and respond to your comments. He will do so as soon as possible.
Reply #11 Top

Let me cite a few examples. Here in my town, Raleigh, No christmas lights. My son's school no longer celebrates christmas, they have a 'winter holiday' party. My work? Can't mention the C word here, and there can be no display of lights, bows, holly, or anything. It's like people are becoming afraid to mention christmas for fear of offending someone.


there are no christmas lights on private homes, churches, stores in raleigh? 


public schools are state instutions.  would you be okay with the school celebrating a religious holiday with carols, decorations, etc. that were very clearly identified with a particular christian sect? jehovah's witnesses perhaps? or snake handlers? how about the type of catholicism common to brazil or haiti that's combined the ancient african gods with catholic saints? unitarian?  the most sensible and constitutional way to ensure one sect isnt--or doesnt appear to be--endorsed by the government is to keep government institutions free of expressly religious events or symbols.
you are responsible for instilling your children with your religious values and traditions.  public school teachers arent hired on the basis of their theological qualifications.  religious school teachers are.  if you wish your children to receive dogmatic instruction, you have every right to enroll them in a private church-school.


do you work for a government agency?  if you work in the private sector, the owners of the company have every right to manifest their religious beliefs.  they may choose not to do so, however, rather than risk alienating non-christian customers. 

Reply #12 Top

lights, bows, holly, or anything


since those are non-religious holiday trappings--as opposed to holy day symbols--i'm surprised any business owner would have a problem with them any more than they would the easter bunny or a jackolantern.

Reply #13 Top
Well the thing that I find most disturbing is the fact that, instead of being tolerant of all religions, they simply 'do away' with any type of display. Want Kwanzaa lights downtown? Or a menorah display at a school? I don''t mind. In fact I look forward to learning about the other religions and seeing their displays. But the fact that the norm seems to be to just do away with any display upsets me.

I thought it was Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Reply #14 Top

I thought it was Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion


freeing the state from religion is the only sure way to free religion from the state.

Reply #15 Top

damn double posts

Reply #16 Top
public schools are state instutions. would you be okay with the school celebrating a religious holiday with carols, decorations, etc. that were very clearly identified with a particular christian sect? jehovah's witnesses perhaps? or snake handlers? how about the type of catholicism common to brazil or haiti that's combined the ancient african gods with catholic saints? unitarian? the most sensible and constitutional way to ensure one sect isnt--or doesnt appear to be--endorsed by the government is to keep government institutions free of expressly religious events or symbols.
you are responsible for instilling your children with your religious values and traditions. public school teachers arent hired on the basis of their theological qualifications. religious school teachers are. if you wish your children to receive dogmatic instruction, you have every right to enroll them in a private church-school.


Does anyone find it odd that in the "public school system" in California, children are not allowed to mention God, Jesus Christ or any mention of the Bible- yet are allowed to read from the Koran, to role play the muslim faith and must understand and quote the 7 tenants of the muslim faith? That in Washington state the public school considers the celebration of Halloween as a holiday and give extra care not to offen witches, as they consider this their Holy Day? In Oregon a child could not distribute a Christmas card with the story of the candy cane because it referenced the name of Jesus Christ. It's not only California, Oregon and Washington where this is promoted.

It seems that the direction of our nation is not Seperation of Church (religion) & State but God, Jesus Christ, the Bible and State!

Merry Christmas
preacherman
Reply #17 Top

Does anyone find it odd that in the "public school system" in California, children are not allowed to mention God, Jesus Christ or any mention of the Bible- yet are allowed to read from the Koran, to role play the muslim faith and must understand and quote the 7 tenants of the muslim faith?


i find it strange beyond credibility.  can you cite the california statute(s) that forbid the mention of god or require the recitation of the 7 tenets (do you mean the five pillars?) of islam?


? In Oregon a child could not distribute a Christmas card with the story of the candy cane because it referenced the name of Jesus Christ
 

im not sure why jesus' name would be mentioned in the story of the candycane.  what did the text say?


It seems that the direction of our nation is not Seperation of Church (religion) & State but God, Jesus Christ, the Bible and State!


there's no mention of god, jesus or the bible in the constitution.

Reply #18 Top
US Constitution

Article VII
The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.

done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,



Yep..

No mention of God in the Constitution..

Reply #19 Top

No mention of God in the Constitution


omg...youve discovered the DARK SECRET we've all taken a satanic oath to hide.  please dont tell anyone about that okay? 

Reply #20 Top
On the subject of Church and State, I think the differences between most Christians, as most were Christian at the time of the writing of the Constitution, is that Jefferson's wall of separation was intended to keep protect religion from the state, not the state from religion. What is being applied by those who oppose freedom of expression of religion, particularly the Christian faith, the state is opposing one religion in particular, the Christian faith. In balance, the state or states have allowed the freedom of teaching and expression of other non-Christian faiths while some are still allowing the expression of the Christian faith . Although, its only as long as no one complains.
Reply #21 Top
KingBee, I honestly cannot see how you cannot see the attacks on Christmas in this country. Let me cite a few examples. Here in my town, Raleigh, No christmas lights. My son's school no longer celebrates christmas, they have a 'winter holiday' party. My work? Can't mention the C word here, and there can be no display of lights, bows, holly, or anything. It's like people are becoming afraid to mention christmas for fear of offending someone.


Heh......ever see the episode of "South Park" where the town outlaws Christmas celebrations in an attempt to keep from offending anyone? They went around town taking down anything that anyone found even remotely offensive.

"Uh, Mayor? How about this misteltoe?"
Mayor turns to crowd and yells "Mistletoe...anybody offended by mistletoe?"
One guy in the back raises his hand.
"Take it down!"

In the end, they discovered that there was nothing left for anyone to enjoy. Iin their fervor to be fair to all, they took everything away. Some were offended by Hanukka stuff, others by Kwanzaa. It was all taken away......it all had to come down, to avoid offending anyone.

Of course, in real life, only the Christmas stuff would have had to come down; non-Christians are allowed to be offended by our beliefs, but it matters not one whit if we're offended by others. Our feelings on the subject don't count.
Reply #22 Top
Very well, said.
Reply #23 Top

Well, Christ wasn't born on December 25th, sad to say. There's much that can be gleaned from reading in context to understand this. As well, there is no directive in the bible to celebrate "Christmas"...I think the celebration of it or lack thereof is up to the individual.


It would be more fair to say that Herrod tried to stomp out CHRIST than "Christmas".

Reply #24 Top

im not sure why jesus' name would be mentioned in the story of the candycane. what did the text say?


King,


There's an apocryphal story that ascribes religious significance to the candy cane. If you are familiar with the nature of apocryphal stories, you can probably piece it together. If not, I'm reasonably certain snopes has it.

Reply #25 Top

Here is the story, with the snopes followup, for your info:


A candymaker in Indiana wanted to make a candy that would be a witness, so he made the Christmas Candy Cane. He incorporated several symbols from the birth, ministry, and death of Jesus Christ.

He began with a stick of pure white, hard candy. White to symbolize the Virgin Birth and the sinless nature of Jesus, and hard to symbolize the Solid Rock, the foundation of the Church, and firmness of the promises of God.

The candymaker made the candy in the form of a "J" to represent the precious name of Jesus, who came to earth as our Savior. It could also represent the staff of the "Good Shepherd" with which He reaches down into the ditches of the world to lift out the fallen lambs who, like all sheep, have gone astray.

Thinking that the candy was somewhat plain, the candymaker stained it with red stripes. He used three small stripes to show the stripes of the scourging Jesus received by which we are healed. The large red stripe was for the blood shed by Christ on the cross so that we could have the promise of eternal life.

Unfortunately, the candy became known as a Candy Cane a meaningless decoration seen at Christmas time. But the meaning is still there for those who "have eyes to see and ears to hear." Every time you see a Candy Cane, remember the Wonder of Jesus and His Great Love that came down at Christmas, and that His Love remains the ultimate and dominant force in the universe today.



Variations:   Candy canes are also said to have been created:

  • As a sweet treat for children who behaved well in church


  • As a form of identification among Christians during a time of persecution
Origins:   The




red-and-white-striped, sugary candy cane can be found everywhere at Christmastime. It's as much an ornament as it is a confection, and people munch these treats and decorate with them, scarcely giving a thought to just where candy canes came from in the first place.

It has become fashionable of late to claim that the candy cane was not only designed to be fraught with Christian religious symbolism, but that it was created as a means by which persecuted Christians could furtively identify each other. Like the apocryphal tale of the "true" meaning of the song "The Twelve Days of Christmas," these claims are day attempts to infuse secular Yipes, stripes! holiday traditions with specifically religious origins and meanings.

First off, the notion that candy canes could have been used as a secret means of identification by persecuted European Christians is directly contradicted by history. Candy canes didn't appear until at least the latter part of the 17th century, by which time Europe was almost entirely Christian. By then, people who were not Christians would have been the ones in need of this form of "secret handshake"!

Next, candy canes were most assuredly not created by "a candymaker in Indiana" who "stained them with red stripes to show the stripes of the scourging Jesus received." Candy canes were around long before there was an Indiana, and they initially bore neither red coloration nor striping — the red stripes were a feature that did not appear until a few hundred years later, at the beginning of the 20th century:


About 1847, August Imgard of Ohio managed to decorate his Christmas tree with candy canes to entertain his nephews and nieces. Many who saw his canes went home to boil sugar and experiment with canes of their own. It took nearly another half century before someone added stripes to the Christmas cards produced before 1900 show plain white canes, while striped ones appear on many cards printed early in the 20th century.1
In fact, the strongest connection one can make between the origins of the candy cane and intentional Christian symbolism is to note that legend says someone took an existing form of candy which was already being used as a Christmas decoration (i.e., straight white sticks of sugar candy) and produced bent versions which represented a shepherd's crook and were handed out to children at church to ensure their good behavior:


Soon after Europeans adopted the use of Christmas trees, they began making special decorations for them. Food items predominated, with cookies and candy heavily represented. That is when straight, white sticks of sugar candy came into use at Christmas, probably during the seventeenth century.

Tradition has it that some of these candies were put to use in Cologne Cathedral about 1670 while restless youngsters were attending ceremonies around the living creche. To keep them quiet, the choirmaster persuaded craftsmen to make sticks of candy bent at the end to represent shepherds' crooks, then he passed them out to boys and girls who came to the cathedral.1
Claims made about the candy's religious symbolism have become increasingly widespread as religious leaders have assured their congregations that these mythologies are factual, the press have published these claims as authoritative answers to readers' inquiries about the confection's meaning, and several lavishly illustrated books purport to tell the "true story" of the candy cane's origins. This is charming folklore at best, and though there's nothing wrong with finding (and celebrating) symbolism where there wasn't any before, the story of the candy cane's origins is, like Santa Claus, a myth and not a "true story."

Barbara "the cane mutiny" Mikkelson

Sightings:   Fictional accounts of the candy cane's religious origins are the subject of a number of colorful Christmas volumes, including The Candymaker's Gift: A Legend of the Candy Cane by Helen Haidle (1996), The Candy Cane Story by Joy Merchant Nall and Thomas Nall, Jr. (1996), The Legend of the Candy Cane by Lori Walburg (1997), and the children's book The "J" Is For Jesus by Alice Joyce Davidson (1998).