None of it can exist. If there are 4-dimensional creatures, they cannot go willy-nilly in and out of our 3-dimensional existence any more than we can do the same in any other lesser number of dimensions. As soon as you remove the existence of any number of dimensions needed to create that dimension that object becomes invisible in that dimension. What I mean is that as a 3-dimensional being I cannot see a point: 0-dimensional a line: 1-dimensional or a square: 2-dimensional unless the point, line or square is part of a 3-dimensional object. I need the existence of a 3-dimensional object to see the other dimensions.

An empty white room....

If you suspend a black point in an empty white room, no matter where you are standing you cannot see it, because it has no dimensions. Same goes for a black line or a black square. Now some of you will say, okay I see your point on the line and the point, but if I stand perpendicular to the square, I'll see it. You won't, because it has no depth, some infinitely small distance of depth has to exist in order to see it, making it 3-dimensional. Put a black cube in the same room, you can see it no problem. Now start to flatten that cube, no matter how flat you can make it, you cannot flatten it to the point where it is two dimensional, if you did it would simply disappear from your vision.

A block of cheese....

Go in the fridge and get a block of cheese and look at it. The 8 corners where the 6 sides meet are points: 0-dimensional and you can see them. Get out a knife and cut away all the cheese except the 8 points, you can't. The 12 edges where the 6 sides meet are 1-dimensional and you can see them, again try cutting away the cheese until all there is are the 12 edges, you can't. Finally, the 6 2-dimensional sides that make up the block of cheese, try removing just one side, you can't.

An image on your monitor....

2-dimensional, yes, but only because it is projected on the side of a 3-dimensional object...your screen. Get an overhead projector and try viewing it's 2-dimensional projection without having something to project it on, you can't.

As for that Matrix thing showing the existence of a 4th dimension it doesn't. It'll take a while and I'd probably drown in the Atlantic first, but theoritically (Sic) if I step out my front door and head due east, I'll eventually end up standing where I was in the first place.

As for the Adam talking to Max the 4th dimension thing was kinda weird.

As for the universe going on forever, it doesn't, it ends. We cannot see the end because it is a infinitely large number, just like we cannot see the smallest distance, a point, because it is an infinitely small number.

That's my theory on the whole thing.

That's just too much info to read in 51posts. I basically skimmed it. You might manage to get close to a true 3D if you can create a graphic that plays with both eyes a certain way that it pops out of the screen. But you need to do a study to see how exactly you can go about to do that. Just a suggestion.

I just want to appologise to Adam for calling him stupid(er). I know it's taken me a while but understand my suffering from having my PC removed for ...certain reasons.

Adam, sorry. I know I should not have made the impression to all these superemely imaginative gentlemen, but I was only asking for help on how to convince you. You're not stupid. on the contrary, I think you're the most creative and intelligent person I have ever met, and every time i come to your house, it's like visiting some inspirationist or modern Einstien. You're not aware of it but I always talk about you to Stacie and Jason... Sometimes I make myself responsible for the such interesting explanations lol (sorry, physics) phlagerism?

Anyways... So yeah, you're not stupid, I just wanted to understand and visualise flatland, i mean it is possible if you simply downgrade the relativity to our own dimension (for example, there is no such thing as 'on top of' which means that they are not living 'on top of' a solid land, so they must be floating in the confinement of their dimension (if we went in to space we'd be floating in OUR confinement of dimensions).

Oh and one thing that's become interesting. I was trying to find out why most people believe that time is the 4th dimension. Now, they were right that it's time, but not that it was the 4th dimension. Actually, time is eternity, it's now. It will always be the superior. What i mean is, in the 4th spatial dimension, time will be the '5th' dimension, it will always be above.

Here's how i came up with this crappy theory:

It came to me that the 4th dimension is actually a mark, a signature to represent our time code.
It then struck me a question that I still remain incapable of answering...

"is real time in real time?"

Now, real time is a time period that cannot be interrupted and collaborates with the universal theory of relativity (relativity allows us to see physics outside of them, in essence)

But how can we know if real time is IN real time whilst we're INSIDE this time realm? no way of knowing.

For example, you stick, let's say, Final Fantasy 7 on yeah? now, there's a real time clock on there isn't there? when you go to the menu i believe. But this 'real time' clock does not run whilst the game is off (some may realise that 67 hours of game play was quite a shock since most people spend around 400 completing the game - well now you know why)

So, to Cloud, time is in real time. but when we save the game and turn the computer off, he ain't running, he is frozen immaculately. So the next day after school/work we turn the game on and resume it. To Cloud, that moment of frozeness was instantaneous to him, time didn't really stop it all.

So we get what's called Active Time. This time realm is actually a label for what we give to time that can only be truly observed from the OUTSIDE of that time realm.

How do you know we're not in Active Time? The 4th dimension could very well be scrutinizing us.

Another example (which sort of contradicts Paxx's trampoline theory - sorry):

alright, so dimensions are layers connected by their verticies. right? but the thing is, verticies allows not only interaction, but actual light, sound, physical matter and insbustantial matter. So how in the hell could a ball press down on the 2nd dimension from the 3rd without the 2nd dimensional world being connected to the 3rd dimensional? but if Flatland was connected to us, it wouldn't be flat anymore would it? so really, there is no way of interacting with Flatland, visually or physically.

The thing is though, who's theory was it on Space Curvature? was it Eintsien? I don't remember. The point is, that if we did twist Flatland, they wouldn't notice. They cannot, they can only see 2 dimensions.

To imagine this easier, imagine an Orange peel, being flat yeah? now, even if we got hold of it, and twisted it around, to anyone's POV on their it would still be essentially flat right?

So if we bent Flatland, they would see it Flat, they wouldn't notice Jack basically is what i'm saying.

What if our Dimension is being twisted also? possibly.

The thing is though, is that don't they say that the fastest way forward is a straight line?

imagine a circle in your head now, and a person in that circle does 10 laps around it (to him it's a straight line) and he completes 10 laps in 10 minutes alright? exactly 10 minutes.

But if we twisted this circle into some sort of kite circuit with 8 bends for instance, (it still looking like a straight line to his POV) he would still complete 10 laps in 10 minutes. But we've just bended the lines, which means we've made it a longer trip.

So when he completes 10 laps in 10 minutes, to us, he has actually taken longer since we bended the circuit. So to us, he took... 10 minutes and..20 seconds?

This is relative i've checked it out.

So there's your evidence right there, a 20 second time gap, to him 10 minutes, to us 10 mins 20 secs. So his dimension has a completely different time zone to us, making his dimension running in Active Time, and the superior Dimension running in Real Time.

But really, Real Time is only an illusion, because to the 5 dimensioners, 4 dimensional worlds would follow the same result.

So there you go, Time is only an illusion, and it's just like a rainbow, get nearer to it? and it will only move away from you.

Welcome to the realisation of Active Time, you have probably just been interrupted by a 1 million year time elapse and you haven't even noticed it.

Whew.... has uh...anyone done a Hypercube wallpwaper yet?!?!????

Mr. J

You said you bent it not stretched so its not longer.

I didn't say it was longer, I said it would be a longer trip.

I stated that the fastest way froward is a straight line. Alright? But if we bent their dimension so the little man is no longer running in a straight line (to us. the superior), he will not be running as fast (to us) because he is running around a bend. This would be relative to our (superior) motion. Now the 'little man', from his dimensional POV, he will still be running a straight line, taking him 10 mins to do 10 laps. The ultimate time gap will be compensated by a relative, telescopic time zone (EG, each lap adds 2 secs to the time gap). But in that new time zone, they will also be in active time (thinking they are also in real time), this is how I think time grows.

I would bend their dimension (keeping their physics of time, obviously) from our POV since verticies are not connected. So it would be a longer trip (to superior).

human physics crack me up

Me too, in addition to psychics !

yeah both concepts are a little strange to each other....it's a GOOD thing though...I mean....the concepts

you know who needs to join this converstation (and start skinning his computer) .. spethen hawking.

Haven't heard much about him lately. Is he still kicking despite his disability ?

I suspect the dimensional order is wrong(or misleading).Time would seem to be the 1st dimension(without it,I dont think any of the others could exist).A point of course cant exist but is only a location,which cant even be plotted without reference to another point.(not really a dimension per se).Same with a plane,no mass only an infinite number of points in all directions (but to me ,not truly a dimension since it cant exist by itself)
Seems to me we are 3 dimensional objects in a 4 dimensional universe.(time + space + infinity + ?)...space and time have to be infinite and thats impossible for us to fully grasp.So it may be the 4th dimension that makes infinity possible.