Sorry if that didn't make 100% sense, but I've had a long day.

I would just like to add that it would be nice if certain people could lighten up and have a sense of humour about these things. Life's too short to be arguing about who's right, when in the end both could turn out to be wrong anyway.

There is no evidence of that we evolved, but, in reply, you might say, "why are there 'human-ape things?" In reply I say, "Why so few? Why so few human-ape things, not even numbering in the hundreds, or probably not even in the twenties?" As for carbon dating, its inaccurate... greatly inaccurate. What scientists say is merely a guess. Nothing more, nothing less. Not even an educated one. Our genes are quite 'new' compared to other creatures. We 'arrived on the scene' about 6,000 years ago, considering our genes. And the fact that no human remains have been found near dinosaur remains. On the other hand, there is no evidence that we were created. Like, if there were a God, why so much suffering? Every human knows the truth or whether we were created or if we evolved. When you see a sunset, ask yourself three questions... 1. "Is there a creator?" and answer. 2. "Is there a creator?" and answer. 3. "Is there a creator?" and don't lie to yourself, be truthful. The chances for an evolution are impossible. First, matter cannot just 'pop into existance'. We know this as a fact. It can neither 'slowly form from energy.' The universe wasn't created and we evolved, either. The Bible simply states that we were CREATED by God, along with all the animals, plants, earth.. and so on. Genesis 1: 24 (according to their kinds). Genesis 1: 26 (let us make man in our image). The book of Genesis disproves evolution after creation and evolution alone. As for sin, pain and suffering and whatnot, these aren't from God, but from Satan. If you read on in Genesis, you'll come across the wellknown account of the serpent and Eve. Where the serpent deceaved Eve into eating the forbidden fruit of the tree, saying she will be like God and not die and Adam, knowing the truth, willing ate of it. They were cast out of the perfect garden and they because imperfect sinners, though they did live a long time (900 some-odd years for Adam I think) they died and, as Romans 5: 12 says: That is why, just as through one man (Adam) sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned." Death spread to all mankind, because our first parents, Adam and Eve, had sinned, thus we inherited their inperfections and we die. We DON'T die because God said it was our time. Thats completely against bible teaching.

"but most of us always want to create our own "comfortable" Gods"

This is very true. There are a countless number of 'gods' that aer worshipped and that were worshipped, but there is only 1 TRUE God, and it is to him ALONE you must render sacred service. 1 Corithians 8: 4, also Matthew 4: 10. Unfortunately, the majority of the worlds population worship a triad of gods, or a trinity. According to The Encyclopedia Britannica: "Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema [a hebrew prayer] in the Old Testament: 'hear, O Isreal: The Lord our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6: 4)." Christians did not worship the Roman triad or any other gods. They accepted Jesus' statement that Jehovah ( Psalm 83: 18 ) alone is to be worshipped. They also drew clear distinctions between God, Christ, and the holy spirit. In fact, they baptized disciples (1) in the name of the Father, (2) in the name of the Son, and (3) in the name of the holy spirit, not in the name of a Trinity. That is how God is a jealous God. Him himself wanting to be worshipped, and thats how we must feel also, to worship God and God ONLY, because He is deserving of our worship.

There is no evidence of that we evolved, but, in reply, you might say, "why are there 'human-ape things?" In reply I say, "Why so few? Why so few human-ape things, not even numbering in the hundreds, or probably not even in the twenties?" As for carbon dating, its inaccurate... greatly inaccurate. What scientists say is merely a guess. Nothing more, nothing less. Not even an educated one. Our genes are quite 'new' compared to other creatures. We 'arrived on the scene' about 6,000 years ago, considering our genes. And the fact that no human remains have been found near dinosaur remains. On the other hand, there is no evidence that we were created. Like, if there were a God, why so much suffering? Every human knows the truth or whether we were created or if we evolved. When you see a sunset, ask yourself three questions... 1. "Is there a creator?" and answer. 2. "Is there a creator?" and answer. 3. "Is there a creator?" and don't lie to yourself, be truthful. The chances for an evolution are impossible. First, matter cannot just 'pop into existance'. We know this as a fact. It can neither 'slowly form from energy.' The universe wasn't created and we evolved, either. The Bible simply states that we were CREATED by God, along with all the animals, plants, earth.. and so on. Genesis 1: 24 (according to their kinds). Genesis 1: 26 (let us make man in our image). The book of Genesis disproves evolution after creation and evolution alone. As for sin, pain and suffering and whatnot, these aren't from God, but from Satan. If you read on in Genesis, you'll come across the wellknown account of the serpent and Eve. Where the serpent deceaved Eve into eating the forbidden fruit of the tree, saying she will be like God and not die and Adam, knowing the truth, willing ate of it. They were cast out of the perfect garden and they because imperfect sinners, though they did live a long time (900 some-odd years for Adam I think) they died and, as Romans 5: 12 says: That is why, just as through one man (Adam) sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned." Death spread to all mankind, because our first parents, Adam and Eve, had sinned, thus we inherited their inperfections and we die. We DON'T die because God said it was our time. Thats completely against bible teaching.

"but most of us always want to create our own "comfortable" Gods"

This is very true. There are a countless number of 'gods' that aer worshipped and that were worshipped, but there is only 1 TRUE God, and it is to him ALONE you must render sacred service. 1 Corithians 8: 4, also Matthew 4: 10. Unfortunately, the majority of the worlds population worship a triad of gods, or a trinity. According to The Encyclopedia Britannica: "Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema [a hebrew prayer] in the Old Testament: 'hear, O Isreal: The Lord our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6: 4)." Christians did not worship the Roman triad or any other gods. They accepted Jesus' statement that Jehovah ( Psalm 83: 18 ) alone is to be worshipped. They also drew clear distinctions between God, Christ, and the holy spirit. In fact, they baptized disciples (1) in the name of the Father, (2) in the name of the Son, and (3) in the name of the holy spirit, not in the name of a Trinity. That is how God is a jealous God. Him himself wanting to be worshipped, and thats how we must feel also, to worship God and God ONLY, because He is deserving of our worship.

Sorry, i'm a noob...

Replying to greyhaze, 750, 751. I respect your beliefs, even though i whole-heartedly believe they are wrong. I believe that you have a choice to whatever you want to believe and to whatever you want to do. You have freewill.

"If someone were to ask them to admit that there's even the smallest possibility that they could be wrong, they would start screaming from the rooftops about blasphemy and the devil. On the other side, you have those who don't believe in God. In general, they will admit that given enough tangible proof they would be open to the possibility of God's existence. They will even admit that long-held scientific 'facts' can be, and often are, either a little incorrect or completely untrue. They are open to the possibility of other truths beyond that which they have been taught."

I've seen part of that happen, acually. Just the screaming part and someone was called the devil. 'Facts' such as the Earth is flat. Will evolution turn out to be a fact such as that? Why I believe in creation, in part, is because of the prophicies of the Bible. Like, in the end of this system of things, (not the end of the world), there will be wars, rumors of wars, plagues, famines, food shortages... True, this has happened throughout history, but not on such a large scale... How many wars can you count since the beginning of the last century? How many diseases can you count? How many can you count that have died of hunger? 50,000 a day. Also, Daniels prophecy that described a chopping down or rulership in the line of King David; after "seven times" it would be known "that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind, and that to the one whom he wants to he gives it." (Daniel 4:23, 24, 31, 32) The major fulfillment of that prophecy started with the desolating of Judah, which is indicated by Buble evidence to have been completed by October 607 B.C.E. Revelation 12: 6, 14 shows that 3 1/2 time amounts to 1,260 days; hence, seven times (twice that number) must be 2,520 days. Reckoning "a day for a year," we arrive at 2,520 years as the duration of the "seven times." (Ezekiel 4: 6) Therefore, Christ Jesus began his heavenly rule in the latter part of 1914. When Jesus began his rule, he threw Satan and his angels to the Earth. That marked "a beginning of pangs of distress." Also, we know what other major thing happened in 1914... World War I. (Matthew 24: 3-14 ) Also, another thing of why I believe i'm right (not to sound snotty or anything), but because of the brotherly love of my religion. Not just in my community, but world-wide. We're learning the same thing at almost the same time, which gives us unity. We're known to build our place of worship in record times (1 day to a week for a lot) with electric, water and so on. This also shows unity. The Bible says that Gods people will have love amongst themselfs also, it says that love is a perfect bond of union.

"I would just like to add that it would be nice if certain people could lighten up and have a sense of humour about these things. Life's too short to be arguing about who's right, when in the end both could turn out to be wrong anyway."

Live is short... 60 years with luck or even less (he he), but the truth isn't funny. Its something serious. Meaning whether you live or die. There is no reincarnation, there is no only going to heaven or hell. Its everlasting destrucion, where we have no thoughts, no feelings (physical or mental) nothing (Psalm 146: 4). Or, live on a paradise Earth, such as was the case for Adam and Eve, until they disobeyed God. God hasn't changed his plans for the Earth. It WILL be a paradise. The Earth will NOT be destroyed (Ecclesiastes 1: 4 ). Righteous will posess the Earth ( Psalm 37: 29 ). Isaiah 45: 18 says: "For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: "I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.' " Mild tempered inherit earth Matthew 5:5. Those scriptures dispel the belief that the earth is going to be destroyed. What will be destroyed, though, is the world. Meaning people, such as the world was destroyed by the flood in Noahs day. As for the name of God being Jehovah, do a quick searh at www.dictionary.com for the words 'Jehovah' 'Jah' and 'Hallelujah'. (This post is directed to anyone and everyone.)

And That ^ concludes Thursdays sermon...

You know... I started to read all that and after a while all I saw was 'blah blah blah'.

That's exactly my point r3fr. Question an evolutionist's views and they'll more than likely show you a little proof and tell you it's the best answer we've yet to find. Question a creationist's views and they'll regurgitate the Bible and tell you you're wrong.

Question an evolutionist's views and they'll more than likely show you a little proof and tell you it's the best answer we've yet to find. Question a creationist's views and they'll regurgitate the Bible and tell you you're wrong.

Worst of all is that the science & facts are being 'refuted' are often (as in r3fr's case) totally mis-stated, hopelessly out of date, or incorrectly re-interpreted to suit their argument!

It's impossible to have a logical discussion when one side won't behave logically. That is to say that it is possible to have a theological discussion founded in logic.

Look at my post #745 and then look at #750 above. 5 posts later...

"Here's how I see the differences between the two groups", "blasphemy and the devil"...

Then again in #757,

"Question a creationist's views and they'll regurgitate the Bible and tell you you're wrong."

It might be

"nice if certain people could lighten up and have a sense of humour about these things",

but it is pretty unlikely when posts are so bitter, stereotypical and humorless. I *know* greyhaze isn't stupid or insane, but it defies reason how anyone can take that tone after reading the myriad different religious stances on Evolution. There is only a "VS" for the smallest minority on BOTH sides of the argument. Why keep insisting that there is some huge conflict?

You are aware that Christianity isn't the only religion that has a creation story and a Supreme being, right? You understand that only a small minority of the world are atheists? Stop acting like religion is a fringe freakshow, please. It might be easier to take things lightly if you didn't use a few people's opinions to batter Creationism and Religion as a whole...

**

I really don't like coming here much anymore. Others have mentioned the same thing to me, so I know it isn't just my own ill-temper.

Please, for the sake of the human race, turn your TV off and acquaint yourself with something besides caricature. Listening to people here you'd think everyone that owns a gun is a redneck, everyone that is pro-life is doctor-killing fanatic, and everyone that believes in a Supreme Being is Jerry Falwell. I swear, if I didn't take month-long breaks from this messageboard I would lose all hope in humanity. You need to learn that the most vocal are not always the most representative.

I like you guys and all, but I really can't see how you can do this day in and day out. You realize this is 750+ posts of the same material, over and over and over? Gah, it boggles the mind...

I like you guys and all, but I really can't see how you can do this day in and day out. You realize this is 750+ posts of the same material, over and over and over? Gah, it boggles the mind...
#759 by BakerStreet - 10/23/2003 8:11:57 PM

wellll Baker "you" just made it post #759! (and me just made it #760 if someone don't beat me!) hehe

I still think God is in the midst of it all hidden behind todays hussle and rush and behind fast food and traffic you really need the places he created to find him these days cuz he is getting hidden more and more as time goes by...

re: #760 touché, Doreen. I just keep hoping, as I did before I got sick of this a month ago, that Greyhaze, IPlural and the rest will realize that the vast majority of the world's population believe in a Supreme Being, and most of those believe that Evolutionary theory is at least partially correct. There really is no conflict with most people. Most people don't need to see Evolution and Creationism as exclusive at all.

I have come to the conclusion that the resident athiests *want* a vs so they can caracture anyone that believes in a Supreme Being. All they need to do is bait Kona out once a week and they can go to sleep feeling superior. Whatever floats their boat, I'm bored with it again. I'll no doubt forget and post again in a month, hope springs eternal...

BakerStreet, take a breath, your good peoples and you've just as much right to have the opinions and feelings that anyone else does and just as much right to state them. I for one do not see myself as being better than anyone, less if anything. Though I do tend to question and also do not always take the time to not blurt out what is passing through my head at the moment.

As far as finding things offensive goes, it happens, I found a couple of things said in the thread extremely offensive but keep mum about them because they are not real. What I mean is they were not said to cut into my mind, they were just statements of feelings on the person’s part. They own that, not I and it really doesn't matter if they directed them at me or not because it is the past right after I read them. It also does not reflect upon my opinion of anyone because that would be pointless and harmful. Something I do not believe anyone here would truly mean to do or be with anyone else.

Even with contention there is a positive gain in any situation because it is both going to reinforce ones beliefs, remind them why they hold them and possibly it will give everyone cause for thought or maybe open some eyes to new possibilities.

Anyway...

Life’s to short to sweat such things, what you hold as your own truths are something no one can every steal or take from you or they were never truly yours to begin with.

All they need to do is bait Kona out once a week and they can go to sleep feeling superior.

i have nothing more to say on this subject: Sorry to disappoint you all.

Baker this debate will go on until the end comes, msg boards or not... hehe

nothing said here will change a thing the only thing that can change is how ppl accept each others opinions and just respect that and leave it alone, after all we're only accountable for ourselves and nobody else on these msg boards when we share our believes and POV's on stuff right?
I find it kinda interesting some of the things I read of ppl from around the world and how they look at things in life...
but I know who I am and it does not change me it just makes me "think" sometimes that's all, so don't let things get you upset Baker

Yeah, Auguste...what Dor said!

"That's exactly my point r3fr. Question an evolutionist's views and they'll more than likely show you a little proof and tell you it's the best answer we've yet to find. Question a creationist's views and they'll regurgitate the Bible and tell you you're wrong."

I've not read this entire topic (31 pages!), so could you tell me of the proof you speak of?

heh #752 thru #755 is pleanty proof of blah blah blah BS!

China !

your bad, very good at it I'll add

yeah...

I've not read this entire topic (31 pages!), so could you tell me of the proof you speak of?

You want the sum total of human knowledge condensed to... what... 1 page, 2 maybe?

I'm sure you live near a library? They got books other than the bible there. Check it out.

Theres proof that Jesus lived and walked the earth. Read the book 'Josephus'. Proof of Jesus' existence. Human knowledge isn't always right, like the 'fact' I gave of the earth being flat. Evolution doesn't explain why humans are far superior to the animals, even our 'relatives' the apes. Apes, put simply, are stupid. They're nothing compared to humans. The smartest animal, is the dolphin (correct me if i'm wrong) and they're still nothing compared to us. Look at what we've accomplished... some good, some bad, but still awe-inspiring. Our bodies are awe-inspiring. Look at the mutitudes of other animals and plants and even the human personalities. Design requires a designer. Why is it dogs can't breed with cats? Why can't horses breed with sheep? Why can't humans breed with apes? (These aren't ment to be sick.) Evolutionists and Creationists have 1 thing in common and that is they're searching for how the earth began. Evolutionists continue to change their answers. Creationists have had the same answer since the beginning of man. Some people sincerely reject the concept of a Creator because they feel, as it has been said, that ‘seeing is believing.’ If something cannot be seen or measured in some way, then they may feel that it does not exist. True, in daily life they acknowledge the existence of many things that cannot be seen, such as electricity, magnetism, radio or television waves and gravity. Yet, this does not alter their view, because all these things can still be measured or sensed by some other physical means. But there is no physical way to see or measure a Creator, or God. However, there is sound reason to believe that an unseen Creator does exist because we can observe the evidence, the physical results of his handiwork. We see it in the technical perfection and intricacy of atomic structure, in the magnificently organized universe, in the unique planet Earth, in the amazing designs of living things and in man’s awesome brain. These are effects that must have an adequate cause to account for their existence. Even materialists accept this law of cause and effect in all other matters. Why not also regarding the physical universe itself?

On this point, the Bible’s simple argument puts it best: “[The Creator’s] invisible attributes, that is to say his everlasting power and deity, have been visible, ever since the world began, to the eye of reason, in the things he has made.” (Romans 1:20, The New English Bible) In other words, the Bible reasons from effect to cause. The visible creation, the awesome “things he has made,” are an evident effect that must have an intelligent cause. That invisible cause is God. Too, as the Maker of all the universe, the Creator no doubt possesses power so enormous that humans of flesh and blood should not expect to see God and survive. As the Bible comments: “No man may see [God] and yet live.”—Exodus 33:20.

Evolution is only a theory. Believing in evolution, then, is an act of faith

Whatever. Yawn Time to lock this thread, it's getting boring now. Same old stuff over and over and over....

Oh yeah? Well I knows what I weren't never no munky. That there Fuzzy Logic feller shore makes a feller wunder thow...


( ... bread and circuses... [aussie] ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!??!?! [/aussie] ... )





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