China, same here...

It isn't that I believe in both, I do not know that making a distinction is paramount to anything other than debunking the oppsite.

Though I do admit dogma is what seems to be the key thing driving one side. Frankly if someone wants their child emursed in dogma, send them to a religious based school.

That is the reality behind the push to make Creation the accepted norm from what I can see from reading up on it and listening to those supporting it on the Idiotbox.

"If you teach in Evolution Public Schools you have to teach Creation"
But in order to teach Creation you have to teach dogma and religion.

My adult children made their own choice in beliefs and my daughter who is 8 will make her own.

If you see a star in the sky, that is only 1 light year away, you are seeing that star as it were 1 year ago... correct (since it takes that light 1 year to reach you eyes). Our planet is about 25,000 light years away from the edge of the milky way galaxy. Since we have seen objects outside the milky way, we could safely assume that the earth is at least 25,000 years old (assuming that the earth existed as long as the milky way galaxy, which would be true according to creation). The farthest known object, a quasar, is estimated at a distance of about 10 billion light years. We don't even know what lies beyond that, because that light has not reached us yet. So now, the question is, is it safe to assume that Adam existed 10 billion years ago?

God created all do you doubt he could cause light to shine throught the galaxy instantaneously instead of mere man's decision on the speed of light years? God is outside of time and still beyond our understanding.

[Message Edited]

Zodiaq~ -

Zacharia Sitchen is the most well known (and controversial) translator of Sumerian texts. He's writen about a dozen books which are the best researched works I've found. I'd recomend starting with either Genesis Revisited or the first book, The 12th Planet. Sitchen has done an unbelievable job of following the cultural influences around the world and through time, as well as providing extraordinary insight into the original writings. It's so compelling that it's addictive, I've read all his books except his latest which Alexandrie tells me is the best.

Jim Marrs' book Rule By Secrecy traces the lineage of kings and secret societies from the beginnings of the Anunaki's grant of kingship to mankind to the present, with some surprising revelations. He has a chapter that gives an excellent synopsis on our origins in Sumer.

kona, I should try to forget the 12-15000 years, no offence but that isn't correct and thats a FACT

Well, ok. A little more seriously...

I believe in the evolution. I believe life started on this planet from unicelular lifeforms (ameabas, virii, bacteries, etc.), that slowly evolved into all the living creatures we have today (and the ones that died). But my problem is there, at that point. How did life happen to start with?  How did those unicelular lifeforms suddenly hatched out of nothing? That's where MY questions start. Was it God? Is Genesis a metaphore to describe how God put that sparkle of life that eventually eveolved into all animals including mankind? It's a possibility that I won't deny.  Or is it extraterrestrials who "injected" on earth those primitive lifeforms as an experiment, to see how it would evolve in our environment? Again, not an impossible thought. Or maybe God is an extraterrestrial? Why not?  Or again, maybe life just "happened". Or maybe those primitive organisms came from somewhere else. Maybe they were frozen on a meterorite that came from very far away. Earth then was completely covered with water, and our atmosphere was then almost inexistant. Maybe those micro-organisms then "thawed out" and multiplied, and eventually mutated into more complex creatures, starting a long chain that leads us to today's biosystem.
I tend to believe the latter, but I really don't know, just as nobody knows for sure either.

Awesome!!!

Thanks DavidK

Zodiaq, besides what DavidK might have in the way of a book list or links ( I'd like them also )...

History Channel, Science Channel, Civilization Channel, Discovery Channels all have very in depth presentations on such topics also...

hehe paxxy

well from what I take as faith God is the "Alpha & Omega" he is the begining and the end...

I always think the harder that something looks the easier it really is "sometimes"

anyways I feel I know who/what God is, I just am a very disobedient daughter so I'm not sure I will make it to be w/ him...

God is outside of time and still beyond our understanding.

I find that such a silly thing for thinking self aware beings to accept as being reality.

God is (fill in blank)!

How do you know?

Because someone said so.

Oh......


or...

I've got a BOOK!

wait...

No not a book THE BOOK!




[Message Edited]

well even if God revealed himself to us we'd all be looking for smoke and mirrors cuz we stilll would not believe...

so to know God is to have "Faith"

God is (fill in blank)!

God is bigger than the boogy man


Bob: You were lying in your bed
You were feeling kind of sleepy
But you couldn't close your eyes because the room was getting creepy.
Larry: Were those eyeballs in the closet?
Was that Godzilla in the hall?
Bob: There was something big and hairy casting shadows on the wall.
Now your heart is beating like a drum
Your skin is getting clammy.
There's a hundred tiny monsters jumping right into your jammies!
Bob: What are going to do?
Junior: I'm going to call the police!
Bob: No! You don't need to do anything!
Junior: What? Why?
Bob: Because ...
Bob: God is bigger than the boogie man
He's bigger than Godzilla, or the monsters on TV
Oh, God is bigger than the boogie man
And He's watching out for you and me.
Junior: So, when I'm lying in my bed
And the furniture starts creeping
I'll just laugh and say, "Hey, cut that out!"
And get back to my sleeping
'Cause I know that God's the biggest
And He's watching all the while.
So, when I get scared I'll think of Him
And close my eyes and smile!
All: God is bigger than the boogie man
He's bigger than Godzilla, or the monsters on TV
Oh, God is bigger than the boogie man
And He's watching out for you and me.
Monster #1: So, are you frightened?
Junior: No, not really.
Monster #2: Are you worried?
Junior: Not a bit.
I know what ever's gonna happen,
That God can handle it.
Frankencelery: I'm sorry that I scared you when you saw me on TV.
Junior: Well that's okay,
'Cuz now I know that God is taking care of me!
All: God is bigger than the boogie man
He's bigger than Godzilla, or the monsters on TV
Oh, God is bigger than the boogie man
And He's watching out for you and me.
Junior: One more time!
All: God is bigger than the boogie man
He's bigger than Godzilla, or the monsters on TV
Oh, God is bigger than the boogie man
And He's watching out for you and me.
Monster #1: Watchin' ...
Monster #2: Watchin' ...
Monster #3: Watchin' ...
Junior: Out for you and me! Yeah!



[Message Edited]

Greyhaze wrote: "There is concrete proof that we evolved"

This is where I get confused. I have never read concrete proof ANYWHERE. Could someone steer me to this concrete proof, I would love to see it.

That's why they call it the "Theory of Evolution:

I cant speak with certainty about whether or not we evolved from a lower life form or not,but we are evolving.Humans have changed in the short time we have been studying ourselves.We are not the same as we were even 10,000 years ago.Thats not very long in terms of a species evolutionary timescale.

Xerraire, how to explain fosiles?

and something diffrend, ask yourself why 'less advanced' populations are believers in god, and the 'more advanced' people don't?

as far as I know einstein didn't believe in god... and thats just 1 of them

Thanks IPlural...Actually I don't have cable right now (don't really watch t.v. anymore)...except for the 'Broadband' of course

I have been stuck on "Nova" here and there though

And as you said up above, "How do you know"? Exactly!!!

Some call it "Faith" could it be "Blind Faith"? It would be very 'Myopic' to believe that there are not other possiblities

On a more serious note...
http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/menu-life.html

http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/home.html

Fast Facts...
on the origin of life
During all recorded human history, there has never been a substantiated case of a living thing being produced from anything other than another living thing.

As yet, Evolutionism has not produced a scientifically credible explanation for the origin of such immense complexities as DNA, the human brain, and many elements of the cosmos.

It is highly premature for materialists to claim that all living things evolved into existence, when science has yet to discover how even one protein molecule could actually have come into existence by natural processes.

There is no scientific proof that life did (or ever could) evolved into existence from non-living matter. Further, there is substantial evidence that spontaneous generation is impossible. Only DNA is known to produce DNA. No chemical interaction of molecules has even come close to producing this ultra-complex code which is so essential to all known life.

How can we know there's a God?
How can a scientist recognize evidence for an intelligent Creator?

If God made everything, who made God?
Who created God?

Where did life come from? Is evolution really the best scientific answer?
Could life have begun through chance and natural chemistry? Have laboratory scientists proved that life evolved on its own? What discovery should have stopped the whole Creation/Evolution debate?

Can evolution be the source of life in all its complexity?
The more science reveals about life's complexity, the more doubtful it appears that life originated without intelligent help.

Why is abiogenesis impossible?
A scientist examines Evolution's claim that life originated spontaneously. The problems with this theory are so serious that the majority of evolutionists today tend to shun the whole subject. If you thought that an evolutionary origin of life had been proven, you need to read this definitive answer.

Second Law of Thermodynamics - Would this basic law of nature have prevented the natural evolution of life?

Kona, we dated Dinosaurs 65,000,000 years ago? How can you possibly believe such a thing?!

you dated dinosaurs by mans reasoning witch is absurb in the first place. in reality I think in my own mind dinosaurs were around less than 6000 years ago.

Again, mans idea that the earth is millions of years old is wrong.

Scripture has the answer. Romans one informs us that unbelievers will devise systems of thought to suppress the truth about God from their consciences.

Yes this is a good thought. the Bible does have the answers. If people refuse to believe them, thats their problems. I will continue to believe, until my death, that God created us (as well as all of the earth and everything in it) and you all will never compromise my faith... sorry!

In Genesis there's a story of creation, including the creation of man. The original Hebrew Bible says the Elohim (gods, plural) made man in "their" likeness.

Their likness was refering to God, Jesus, and The Holy Sprit. The 3 entities are the same but different.

as far as I know einstein didn't believe in god... and thats just 1 of them

Einstein belonged to the category of liberal scientists. For many years his notion of God was akin to that of Spinoza. Yet, as recent studies on him have shown, he came, with the progress of age and reflection, to consider the existence of that personal God whom he first doubted as required by the way in which nature lends itself to the rationalization of phenomena operated by science. As he said in an interview in 1950, far from being an atheist he "believed on the contrary in a personal God."

You might also be interested in Robert N. Goldman's EINSTEIN'S GOD (Northvale, NJ: Jason Aronson, 1997) which says (among other things): "As he aged, Einstein's concept of God seems to have become less remote from humanity. Peter Bucky, the son of one of his few intimate friends, grew up knowing Einstein and often chauffeured him -- writes that Einstein 'composed a number of songs to honor God, which I heard him sing to himself many times. I also heard him say that anybody who loves nature must love God. He also told me once that ideas, as such, stemmed from God.'" p. 118 (with similar material following it). Alice Calaprice's THE QUOTABLE EINSTEIN (Princeton Univ. Press, 1996) says 'Mere unbelief in a personal God is no philosophy at all.' -- Letter to V.T. Aaltonen, May7, 1952, on his opinion that belief in a personal God is better than atheism; Einstein Archive 59-059.

believe in the evolution. I believe life started on this planet from unicelular lifeforms (ameabas, virii, bacteries, etc.), that slowly evolved into all the living creatures we have today

yes but to get those unicelular lifeforms, the earth had to be created first by GOD...

About the fossils


Fast Facts...on the fossil record
All the different kinds of animals appear abruptly and fully functional in the strata with no proof of macroevolutionary ancestors. At the very least, this is a strong indication that not all life evolved from a common ancestor.

There is no scientific proof that life has evolved.

Although scientists will continue to discover new varieties of fossil animals and plants, it is generally agreed that the millions of fossils already discovered and the sediments already explored provide a generally reliable indication of which way the evidence is going. That is, there will continue to be little or no fossil evidence found to support Evolutionism.

Most fossil animals and plants were buried in water-laid sediments.

There is no scientific proof that the fossils, the coal, or the Earth are billions of years old.

There is increasing evidence that many sedimentary rocks, which some thought took thousands or millions of years to accumulate, almost certainly were deposited in only months, days, or hours.

In almost all cases, the very existence of the fossils, in the types and numbers discovered, strongly indicates catastrophic conditions were involved in the burial and preservation of these animal and plant remains. Without such conditions, there seems to be no plausible way to explain their existence.

If you guys out there do not believe in God or Jesus...

explain to me why...

After people pray and lay hands on each that...

crippled people are healed and walk
blind people see again
Cancer cures itself
Tumors shrink and dissappear
Cronic smokers are freed of the habit
Those who use drugs are freed from the habit
Colds, flus, and common sickness is gone and those people healed
Broken bones heal themselves...

I have seen all of this happen before my eyes. I believe in God because of what I have seen him do through those who have faith and believe.

I have also seen demons exorcisted from people in the name of Jesus. I hate demons.

My faith is the reason I know the earth, man, animals, and universe was created by GOD.

Where did God come from? He was always here. Maybe if you get lucky and get to Heaven you can ask the almighty where he hails from.

This is so fascinating.....NOT!

I believe what I believe and nothing that I read here, will ever change my mind

Dor, Isn't being "jealous" one of gods little no-no's?