Maybe that would be an idea for a new poll...

1) I bought a product, posted my comments on the message board, and received a request through e-mail offering some trade for it.

2) I bought a product, posted My comment on the news page announcement and received a request for trade.

3) I bought a product, and uploaded a screenshot that showed the product in use, and received a request for trade.

4) I bought a product, posted in one venue or another, and NEVER received a request.

5) I never bought a product.

6) More than one of options 1, 2, and 3 are applicable.


I think the option to have only apprentice level and above is a good one! That way you know that only people who are at least a little invested in the place have access to it.

I do hope you are not inferring that those of us who have purchased object desktop in it's entirety, as well as some of the exclusive skin suites or icon suites etc, are not "a little invested in the place", GM !! Because by only allowing people at apprentice level or better direct access to the email addy's of skinners etc, you are directly dis-enfranchising those of us who most need the direct assistance of the skinners when we encounter problems.

As an example, Jebland made a wonderful Object Bar to go with Treetog's excellent Copper Deck II Window Blind. I experienced some small problems with it that I would have had no idea about fixing, but as I had access to Jebland's email address, I was able to send her a screenshot of the problem, which she then worked on, fixed, & sent the amended file back to me, all within a day or so. Without direct access to her email address, I wonder how long this process might have taken? As things stand, I am still using her Object Bar, but I doubt that would have been the case if I would've had to wait for a longer period of time before the fix was made available.

Therefore I would urge you to look look very carefully at ALL the ramifications of limiting email addy access to "The Chosen Few" before instituting such measures, as some could interpret such actions as smacking of elitism. However, if a member declines to show their email addy in their user profile, then that is their choice, and they have every right in the world to make it.

I think that email abuse is one thing that we need to enforce.  I think that anyone using another members email address to solicit illegal behavior should have to face consequences.  I *really* don't want people to quit discussing products and suites for fear that some jerk will email them asking for it for free.

I would request that any email that is received from this point forward be reported (please forward complete header information).

I think that most ISP's (if not all) also have rules against such behavior which consequences are termination of service.

Make the pirates walk the plank!!!!!

Because by only allowing people at apprentice level or better direct access to the email addy's of skinners etc, you are directly dis-enfranchising those of us who most need the direct assistance of the skinners when we encounter problems

Somehow I have managed to communicate directly with skinners who do not have their addresses shown. These skinners have chosen to hide their own addresses because of abuse. I never perceived any one of them as having 'disenfranchising' me at all, especially once they explained the kinds of things they had to deal with by having their addresses exposed. There is free access to comment sections, and to the message boards, though even that access can be removed due to abuse.

However, if a member declines to show their email addy in their user profile, then that is their choice, and they have every right in the world to make it.

When members are forced to make that choice because of abuse is it really a choice? Do you really think it is alright that good people who have done nothing but support and contribute (and I am not only talking about myself here) should be forced to stop exercising some basic freedoms and privileges because of an abusive few? Likewise, do you think that we can sit back and simply 'ignore' it when we come aware that some system is being used to rip off our friends and community?

The Chosen Few

It is not a 'few'. And being 'chosen' is not all that mysterious and random.

You are right, though. Invested was probably a poor choice of words. If there is a single word for the concept "emotionally invested' then I should have used that.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to hide the email address to people below Apprentice level.  Most Apprentice+ are themselves somewhat skinners, or at least are more likely to know a bit more about skinning than the general public. Levels under Apprentice are probably the ones who actually need the most to have access to the artist's address.
Myself, I actually even include my email adress with my skins as well. Sure, I get crappy emails, but I just ditch them in the trash. But I'm always happy to receive email comments and questions from newbies.

Doesn't really matter if the email is hidden from certain levels or not. If you choose not to have your email in your profile it is hidden from everyone except the admins and Stardock personnel. A lot of people do not show their email address after the last fiasco where people who didn't like what was said on the messageboard emailed everyone who disagreed with them a dirty letter. If I want to email someone I'll ask for their email address and if they want me to have it they will give it and visa versa. So as far as I can see we haven't a problem.

GM, if I have trodden on your toes with my comments, I do apologise. I merely meant to convey my thoughts that the provision of access to an email address must surely be the decision of the individual, and not that of the community in general. As to comments regarding choice, well, there are alternatives such as blocking an offender's email at the server, etc, so I believe that yes, they still do have choices. But then again, that's just my opinion.
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[Message Edited]

KarmaGirl - I think that email abuse is one thing that we need to enforce.

i agree!!!
if (well, really when) i get these lovely looking cursors, if someone emails me wanting to swap, i will hit them with Jafo!

since i suspect me picking up Jafo and running around with him may "upset" him just a bit, this is likely to be a rather painful learning experience

na, you haven't. Any frustration I convey is usually with myself and my often inadequate manner of communication....
I know when I try to clarify what I tried to say, it sounds angry. but I am not, merely wishing I could do a better job.
You should see me in person when I try to do that... my face gets red with the effort... people say ... not anger there, either. Only a whole hearted desire to be clear when I communicate.

Sorry i had extra spacing.
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P.S. to GM....you left out my smilies!!

/me 's smilies eloped or something, or are on strike! They appear to have taken bolding and underlining away with them, perhaps in protest of the banishment of their lower right hand companion, poor Mr. Burkus....



[Message Edited]

i will hit them with Jafo!

...

goodmorphing 's smilies eloped or something, or are on strike! They appear to have taken bolding and underlining away with them, perhaps in protest of the banishment of their lower right hand companion, poor Mr. Burkus....

Lol

I think that email abuse is one thing that we need to enforce. I think that anyone using another members email address to solicit illegal behavior should have to face consequences. I *really* don't want people to quit discussing products and suites for fear that some jerk will email them asking for it for free.I would request that any email that is received from this point forward be reported (please forward complete header information).

KarmaGirl, your idea has much merit. Just looking at some of the angles, I would suggest that this request be put up in the main area when everyone logs in so that it is out in public view & not just in here on the message board.
[Message Edited]

Loci: KarmaGirl, your idea has much merit. Just looking at some of the angles, I would suggest that this request be put up in the main area when everyone logs in so that it is out in public view & not just in here on the message board.

That will have to be decided by all the admins (we discuss points like this) before that could happen.  I think that it needs to be included in a general conduct rule for the site.  There is a lot that we need to approve in the "rules" and I think this may be one that needs to be added.

Because by only allowing people at apprentice level or better direct access to the email addy's of skinners etc, you are directly dis-enfranchising those of us who most need the direct assistance of the skinners when we encounter problems.

I am not getting this. I have the right to hide my e-mail address and I am using that. I also have the right to show it to all. Why should there be a problem in the right to show your e-mail to some WC members? That's nonsense.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to hide the email address to people below Apprentice level.

I am not getting this either. If a submitted skin or wall is rejected then admins do not send a rejection e-mail, because they may get aggressive e-mails. That's a protection and admins have the right to have that protection. But don't argue that members do not have similar protection rights. That is nonsense again.

Occured to me that if these people are too cheap to purchase the premium suite in question, then they've undoubtedly obtained a pirate version of the one(s) they're offering to trade as well.

My dear Madice, you will also see that I said exactly this further down in my post. If you are going to edit a post, please try to keep the intended context.

Therefore I would urge you to look look very carefully at ALL the ramifications of limiting email addy access to "The Chosen Few" before instituting such measures, as some could interpret such actions as smacking of elitism. However, if a member declines to show their email addy in their user profile, then that is their choice, and they have every right in the world to make it.

My point was that I did not agree with Admin limiting access to email addys, but that it was the sole right of the individual to institute such measures IF they felt it was necessary! So you see, we are in agreeance on this point!



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'agreement', Loci.....

Hippy:

Occured to me that if these people are too cheap to purchase the premium suite in question, then they've undoubtedly obtained a pirate version of the one(s) they're offering to trade as well.

That is what I thought.

It is pretty hard to believe that even they believe their rationalization that it is in "trade" letting one item go in exchange for another when you consider the initial post I made.... Hardly sounding like someone who would really consider letting go of the product...

#1 by goodmorphing - 6/11/2003 9:50:09 PM
Yippeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! I love it! I really, really do!

Thank you!

have to agree with GM...most 'folk' who are impoverished are not apt to have a computer or can afford an internet connection

In the interest of others out here in the same boat as I am, I feel I need to respond to this comment, as someone could misconstrue its meaning and target those of us with limited resources.

I am on a very tight budget. I can afford minimum nonessential software etc. I afford internet and computer because I want my children to have the best education I can give them. I say this because not all "impoverished" people are technology deprived. On the other side of that coin. I don't use warez. I purchase programs, usually after trying them and liking them. I am not an endangered species. There are many of us out here who have little of our own but who would never think of taking food out of the mouths of another's babes by stealing.
The person who would do this, is someone with little moral value, and even less common sense. don't lump "impoverished" people into that category.you'll find we have more pride than to stoop so low.

I keep forgetting to mention another thing. We have a lot of young, and inexperienced members here. Getting an email, through the site, proposing something that on the surface seems reasonable seems to me to be a bad sort of introduction to what behavior is and is not acceptable. By association, since it is coming from a respected site, the request might seem to be more of a respectable request than it really is. And by reflection, the Site could to be associated with standards like that, if that is the primary and/or only experience along those lines....

#45 by Jafo - 6/15/2003 6:21:47 AM 'agreement', Loci..... (spellcheck thingumy here)

Sorry mate....must've been overcome with verbosity or sumpin'!!
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I've had a few e-mails commenting on work then asking for the software to use this 'great work'...maybe they believe complementing will suddenly make people turn a blind eye on certain things. Sheer stupidity.