Quick Question to all dem designers......

fer wat

I've heard 12-step programs work for some people.

It is a rather vague question....

I don't even know what a dem designer is............. what's a dem?

'dem bones, 'dem bones, 'dem dryyyyy bones...

hehe... Baker, you must be old like me! https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=8&SkinID=751

think he is german or dutch or something...
Was fur program haben Sie all?

Wot r u trying 2 say m8? (hope the translation from English is ok )

Boxxi: i'm not half as old as I feel...

u lot really make me laugh man!
'dem' as in them! lol!! no i aint german by da way.... or by 'the' way! lol....
anywayz.... wot program do all them wallpaper designers use??

The program dosn't matter, it's Talent that you need

Ai usez da Macromedeah Fireworkz man. Innit. (English/Moron translation by BabelFish)

Not that I'm making fun of the way you speak or anything.

DMX143637 - Writing in the way You do is not considered very cool as You might think. Personally I will for example not answer any questions written this way. Simple : They are very annoying to read...

Ok, well sorry... i can speak like a civilized person of course. Im only writing my words like that because its much faster and im much more use to it because i chat to a lot of people on the internet. Grayhaze that really isnt the way i speak... and what does everyone else think of macromedia Fireworks?

Being a French speaker, I tink I understood what you meant in de first place.

To answer your question, I tink dat for making wallpapers you should use whatever program you are de most comfortable wit. It is not so much the tool dat matters, as much as how you use it. De talent is in de head, not on de screen.

Fireworks is good for what it does, but it has never really been a graphics creation app. I know they have added a lot of stuff to it lately, but originally it was a slice-and-dice app. When they say 'create web graphics', they don't really mean stuff as in-depth as wallpapers, etc.

I used it a time or two at a friend's house to shrink the size of jpgs. It is more like Adobe ImageReady than Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro. If you buy Photoshop, you get ImageReady with it, so I have since had no reason to use Fireworks.

Maybe they have added enough paint tools to it now to allow you to be more creative, but frankly it is always gonna be a few steps behind the rest since it is not really designed for that purpose.

It's true that Fireworks is primarily for web graphics creation, but that weighs very heavily in its favour for skinning too. It's perfect for creating precise compact images, especially when using the fantastic vector tools which put those in Photoshop to shame.

I admit it's probably not the best for the creation of overly complicated 'painterly' wallpapers, but having used both Fireworks and Photoshop extensively in my job I can wholeheartedly recommend it for someone who likes the idea of having complete control in ways Photoshop is only just starting to mimic.

I certainly wouldn't go back to skinning in Photoshop after having experienced Fireworks. Photoshop is really best for photo manipulation and working on large images with loads of layers.

It's a lot more advanced than ImageReady, which is really only designed for optimising pre-drawn images for use on the web; hence it being bundled with Photoshop now rather than being sold as a stand-alone product.

If you'd like to give Fireworks MX a try, just download the trial version from Macromedia's site. http://www.macromedia.com

By the way, when you say 'Fireworks is good for what it does, but it has never really been a graphics creation app', you couldn't be more wrong. It's always been aimed squarely at the graphics creation market, as that's exactly what it is - a graphics creation app.

no offense, grey, but I have no idea what you mean by "complete control in ways Photoshop is only just starting to mimic". Unless it is PSP, there is *no* app that has more control than photoshop for image creation or maniputaion.

I'd be happy to know some of the features Fireworks includes that Photoshop lacks or does a worse job at.

I was referring to the vector tools provided by Fireworks. Photoshop has only relatively recently introduced vectors, and they are still quite primitive in their capabilities. A lot of the shape creation possible in Fireworks still needs to be done using selections in Photoshop.

You clearly love Photoshop, and you're not alone. It's a fantastic tool for creating and modifying pure bitmap images, but it lacks in certain areas which I find very useful in Fireworks. I still use both applications from time to time, but the majority of my time is spent with Fireworks as I am a web designer. I generally use Photoshop for touching up and managing my photography, while I use Fireworks for graphics creation.

Yes, I've toyed with Fireworks too, as well as Corel Draw. I would compare those two together. But Photoshop really doesn't compare. It lacks in a lot of ways, but is superior in other ways too. I guess Fireworks could be condidered a Lite Photoshop and a Lite Illustrator put together in one program.

Photoshop has had the ability to use channels, curves, and path shapes since 5.0. A solid understanding of paths, curves and channels gives you all the vector-style capabilities you need to make static images. I mean, you have to use tools to make the shapes in a vector app as well, right?

I have found that 'vector' graphics as concept are something that most people don't need. They are based on mathmatically defined shapes. That is handy when you need to scale graphics, or animate or morph the finished work.

Beyond that, if you are gonna use the image for a wallaper, skin, etc., you are gonna have to rasterize it to make it a jpg or bmp, and all the benefits of the vector abilities are gone. I can see possibilites using vector shapes to flesh out the initial shape of the skin, but as I said, paths and channels can do as good a job, without an extra app.

The last wallpaper I made had 97 layers when I finished. A complex skin can have just as many. *IF* vector apps have am advantage in intitial design, I dunno if it is beneficial to trade that for the robust capabilities of raster apps when you are making the final rasterized images.

Each to their own bakerstreet. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I still stick to my guns and say that Fireworks rules for intricate skinning where vectors really help out, whilst retaining the functionality of a decent bitmap app. If I were to ever try making a wallpaper, I'd probably use Photoshop. Until that time though, Fireworks is my skinning tool of choice.

Yup. I guess what I am foggy about is how vector shapes help you with skinning. I've done a lot more skinning than wallpaper making, and I've never had the urge. I'd be interested in knowing how you do it.

interesting points grayhaze. i just started to imagine how vector graphics can be used for skinning ... and it clicked. could be cool for doing all the various buttons.