bakerstreet is right.

you would think, even if the numbers aren't as staggering as Stalin's what paxx has mentioned here should at least be front page news and its not.

Guess they don't have any oil....

Paxx, yes I know about the use of UN peacekeeping forces...but in some situations UN peacekeepers have had to resort to force, even if only in self defense since typically they aren't intended as an offensive force. Just their presence alone often isn't enough from keeping people from trying to kill each other, particularly in an area that hasn't already been "pacified" by other means, either a cease fire agreement (which evidently hasn't worked in the Congo) or military action as in Kosovo. And even then, hostilities do on occasion still occur.

Yeah, Bakerstreet, in such a situation I think force would be required. Not just troops acting as the cop on the beat.

Hmmmmm...more Bush wars? Afghanistan, Kosovo, Iraq, Korea, where to next folks. Sudan, Yemen (North & South), Iran, Syria? At some point in time the U.S. is going to run out of people to send to these Bush wars. OC knows 4 reserveists (two at the front lines) and 2 others that have standby status. I've talked to these family men and woman (cousin) and they've already made the decision to NOT re-enlist. They believe that this Iraq war was not necessary and was a waste of life and money. Maybe before any of us here decide on the future of these people we may want to ask them if they want to go and die in some jungle in Africa or another desert kingdom. Let's just stay home and let other nations solve their own problems with their own blood and money. There. My 2 cents worth. >

Old Crab, apparently you aren't so old as to remember such isolationist and pacifist attitudes in the 1930's allowed the rise of Nazi Germany and delayed the entry of the US into WWII. You can not just ignore things and hope they will go away, eventually they will come knocking on your door, this is why 911 happened. Your 2 cents only buys trouble. Those who ignore the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat them.

Not to sound gung-ho but anyone who decides to not re-enlist because they refuse to fight for this country...well I wouldn't want them in my fox hole.

I don't know if they are Marines or not but my unit was begging to go to Iraq simply because "We" believe as the rest of the world is now seeing that 1)Saddam has been removed from power 2)His supposed removal of chem/bio and WMD weapons shows how useless the UN was in policing him 3)The liberation of the Iraqi's is being well recieved.....I saw this morning all the celebrating on the streets over there. You can disagree or say anyhting you want but that freedom that they are slowly seeing is what this country fights for. I wouldn't want to shut the world out, if someone needs help and it's at the cost of my life or those of my fellow service members and the president tells us to go then so be it.

We are probably beeing saved to go to a possible conflict in N. Korea.........we have a $250 pool on that right now

I'm with you Green. Just what do they think the military is for anyway, a career in interior decorating? Plaeeeze! Just what were they thinking when they enlisted? How can I get in on that North Korea pool? ! You should start a pool for Iran and Syria too! Nations that promote terrorism, tyranny or proliferate weapons of mass destruction should take note and learn from Iraq. They are dancing in the streets of Baghdad and toppling statues of Saddam. We have done a very good thing. The UN still stands by with their thumbs up their "you know what" and nothing gets done, completly impotent and self serving.

>> "Guess they don't have any oil...."

Even a smiley can't hide the ignorance in that statement...

>> "The UN still stands by with their
>> thumbs up their "you know what" and
>> nothing gets done, completly impotent
>> and self serving."

The term "hit the nail on the head" comes to mind.

Come on now.

The chain that is the UN is only as potent as its weakest link. Besides, it's not the world's police force.

if you had on-scene reporting sending film of the latest slaughters to the world media every evening, it would get more attention. but when reporters go to observe that kind of situation, they are often killed or imprisoned.
look also at how many million equatorial africans are going to die from HIV during the next ten years, and the inadequate measures being used to try to stem the epidemic. you're right, paxx, it's ghastly.

#33 by Orion - 4/9/2003 10:55:26 AM
>> "Guess they don't have any oil...."

Even a smiley can't hide the ignorance in that statement...


Orion, you may want to go back and read Jafo's posts about war before you say he is ignorant. I believe he was poking fun at people who believe this war is about oil.

Bangkokboy, I agree with that 100%, very gastly. We can sit around and tell each other just how gastly it is or come up with some solutions. Sometimes the solutions aren't so pretty either but they are a far lesser evil than what would proliferate if nothing is ever done. I understand some of the pacifists that have stated their case here that's all well and good but until we live in a utopian society those thoughts are just a dream. I want that too but we have a long way to go before we can reach that state. There is still too much evil in the world.

> Orion, you may want to go back and read
> Jafo's posts about war before you say he is
> ignorant. I believe he was poking fun at
> people who believe this war is about oil.

I wasn't saying 'he' was ignorant in the least. He seems like a thoughful, intelligent person to me. The statement was (and is) ignorant and I stand by that. I don't get around the forums too much, so if I missed an inside joke, oops. If he was poking fun at the bozo's that actually think this, then I'm 100% with him...

Old Crabs Reservists friends are right. (1)Marine-Major (2)are in the Air Force (supply and bomb loader), and my cousin is a Capt. in the Army reserve (Shell Chemical employee) now due to deploy. There's too much in the History books BoBoMoe to justify your opinion and mine. As for Green Armani the people I know would defend you and your fox hole. They do not refuse to fight and have honored their commitments to the fullest extent. You on the other hand seem to just want to get into a fight for the sake of a fight. The WMD have not materialized as yet and if they do they couldn't be much of a haul. WMD was just the EXCUSE to invade Iraq. A lie plain and clear.

OC - if saddam hid vx gas etc. from the inspectors ( bulldozer burial seems to be the method), i doubt they would unearth it after the inspectors left for us to find. if WMD exist, they'll be accidentally unearthing them in construction projects, possibly for many years. i'm not convinced they exist. only know that saddam definitely had some things in 92 which have since disappeared, and no accounting was offered.

Probably bad record keeping. If you had been just defeated in a war (OC supported that one as well as the Kosovo and Afghan one) would you really be interested in book and record keeping for your conquerer? Besides this Iraq war hasn't been much of a war as wars go. There been more hype than substance about it. If Bush had just told the truth (that he was just finishing up Family business; the loose ends) the war would have been more accepted.

I don't understand what te big suspense is about. We all know he HAD WMD. He used it against the Kurds and the Shia. The question is does he STILL have them now, which was supposed to be a reason for this war.
Anyway, wrong thread to talk about that. Switch this topic to the other one please.

About the absence of oil in Congo, well they have diamond mines, don't they? Of course, cars don't run on diamonds yet (although with the price of oil sometimes, you'd think it does).

Sorry paxx. Got my threads mixed up. Will cut out never to return.

OC made me do it! sorry!

Old crab that is the most offensive statement I have ever received here at WC. You're telling me that I want to go and fight just because. That is such a false statement. I actually laugh at it because you are sooooooo ignorant. I had two options given to me. 1) stay with my unit and go when they get deployed or 2) Go with another unit. I chose to stay with my unit for serveral reasons, but if nothing else that disproves your idea that I don't want an excuse to kill someone (because that is what you really meant).

I honestly don't know how to respond to your statement, but I think your reservist friends enjoy their civilain life too much to want to continue serving...don't worry that's a problem that is going around all the services so don't feel bad.

paxx: the diamond mines are in the south, the atrocities in the east. so, no problem. there are probably company-payed mercenaries that protect the mines.