paxx, I'am against abortion on demand but all for the death penalty. Wierd isn't it.

I do not believe it is our place to overthrow any government. We are not the police nor the conscience of the world and we have no business acting as if we are.

But I also wholeheartedly believe this regime very much needs to be overthrown. That said, if it must be overthrown I want it to be us that does it. Imagine France or Russia or Germany branding that region with their own peculiar politics. Better our peculiarities than theirs.

I do not believe we should have gone to war, but I do not believe we should let Saddam remain in power one minute longer than necessary. The choice is a common one: the lesser of two evils.

Imperfect action is a better choice than the most perfect inaction.

I just saw joetheblow's link on Freedom Fries... that was hysterical

Last night with our dinner we had DicTater-Tots... lol

paxx - I think Iran is the next actual 'target' from what the Senate has been saying. If this 'regime change" thing gets some wind behind it America will run out of Generals cause they'll all be off being presidents in little countries.

North Korea is a very weird situation. I feel nervous about something there. The Reverand Moon (billionaire moonies guy) is one of the strongest financial influences in N. Korea. I've heard it said that he owns Kim Jong Il but I don't know if that's accurate. Something disturbing though is Rev. Moon "bought" Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson (lock, stock and barrel). Both those guys are White House regulars. Reverand Moon has these mass weddings and bizare giant gatherings for his faithful moonies. At every one for the last several years George Bush Sr. has been either the keynote speaker or a special guest. He isn't listed on the program usually but there are plenty of photos from these things and he's always there at the podium standing at the right hand of the strange Reverand.

There seems to be a belief among the Christian Coalition guys that a nuclear war is necessary to fulfill the Biblical prophecies about Armageddon which preceeds the second coming. We all know now Ronald Reagan was convinced it would happen on his watch, but he was dissapointed. Hal Lindsay is a big proponent of this idea as is Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. I don't know if Moon is into the same theory but I know there's supposed to be some world event that signals that it's time for him to reveal to the world that he's Jesus returned. Pretty scary since Moon's world empire is so huge and he has so much political influence. There's a reason the many reverands are hanging with the Bushes and it's awfully weird that they all seem to now be "moonies".

I just got this little Poll off of msn.com.
------------------------------------------
IRAQ WAR POLL

Are war protests anti-American?

Yes
46%

No
34%

No, but they distract police
17%

I don't know
4%
-------------------------------------
I guess a bunch of other people think the way I do. It's un-american to protest.

oh, I forgot to include the part about Moon teaching his followers that he is the second coming of Christ. They believe this and refer to him and his wife as "first father and first mother' or something like that.

kona - it would only be un-american to protest if we threw away the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and started spelling America with a 'k' instead of a 'c'.

There are many people including Senators, Judges, Foriegn Service Officers, FBI agents etc etc that are protesting both this war and the Bush administration's policies. As long as America remains true to the ideals of the founding fathers and the true American values that make this a great country, there will continue to be dissent. If there are no opposing opinions and no debate on public issues and government policies, we're all screwed.

go to www.msn.com and take the poll. Ever watched that xXx with vin diesel? we truly are not free here. cause if we were, we could walk into a store a take a piss on the cheese. And as far as the constitution, I believe in it and support. But notice how they are taking your guns away? Wake up and smell the coffee. I was just trying to point out others agree with me. So a bunch of people think it is un-american to protest. I don't think protesters should be put in jail. I think they should be put on the front line.

taking the poll:

34% (no)
+17% (no, but they distract police)
_____
51%


Hollywood action movies? i thought it´s still a serious debate.

kona...neither MSN, nor Hollywood is 'real'.

Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see....

Yeah I agree. MSN does suck and so does Microsoft for that matter. Good advice Jafo, where would I be without you. I did read something local that caught my eye. It seems the war is here in the US not in Iraq. Here is a short read from the article:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

PORTLAND -- Police in Portland arrested about 135 protesters after a day of freewheeling anti-war demonstrations shut down several bridges, freeways and intersections. Late Thursday, police warned hundreds of protesters at the foot of the Burnside Bridge to leave the area.

Some left, but about 100 seated themselves on the rain-slicked road and linked arms in defiance. Soon after, police began picking up the seated demonstrators one-by-one, and putting them in police vans. Most of those arrested Thursday were charged with disorderly conduct or criminal mischief, Police spokesman Sgt. Brian Schmautz said.

Police used pepper spray to clear crowds near the bridge and threatened people on a nearby street with "impact weapons and chemical spray." Thousands participated in the day's demonstrations. Schmautz said one policeman received 10 stitches after being hit by a flying object during a confrontation with protesters at the Steel Bridge on the edge of downtown.

Elsewhere, protesters set an American flag on fire. Across the Willamette River, one protester smashed in three windows at McDonald's, while another sprayed graffiti on a sign at a Shell gas station. "I like the idea of shutting down commerce and the city to counteract Bush's economic motives for this war," said Eric Anholt, 19, of Portland.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems to me that Iraq is the lest of our worries. I hope Mr. Bush is watching and listening to them.

And please, everyone, forgive me for bringing up hollywood or that poll.

Kona, there was a poll a few years ago asking "Does the sun pass between the moon and the Earth in the winter?".

40% answered yes.


Because a lot of people believe something, it does not make it true.


Just lsiten to yourself. If you are not allowed to disagree with the governemnt, that makes the opposition party illegal. With no opposition party, you have a dictoatorship. That's what you want?

NO thats not what I want. I always tought supporting the troops and the President no matter what was patriotic thats all. I guess I was wrong. America is no dictatorship but it sure seems (to some, not myself) that we are headed in that direction. Of course your statement (Because a lot of people believe something, it does not make it true.) is quite correct. take evoulotion and creation for example. Plenty of people believe in both, but that does not prove either are correct. Sorry i even brought up the stupid poll thing. I just thought people here at WC would get a kick out of it. Instead I get my head chewed off.

this cracks me up....

If you do not buy into the administration and keep your mouth shut your unAmerican...

WOW

I wonder how many germans ebnt to such a position when the brownshirts took power?

If you question or protest your not a true German, and you will be put down and denounced daily until you conform...

Or, Jim Jones says we must move south away from the Federal Government because they mean to destroy us and if you
refuse to come you are evil and aginst God, your family will be damned to burn in hell, shut up already and quit
your sniveling and drink that damn CoolAide already, seesh, some people...

Saddam says you will do as your told or we rape your daughters again and shoot your other dog..

We are the Borg, do not fear assimulation is painless and you will not remember afterwards so your thoughts and fears
are pointless...

Get in line at the back, what's in the boxes? I think toilet paper and over there it looks likes, YES bread!

Poncho Vila comes and steals my chickens, the goverment comes after Poncho and steals my chickens not the American army comes after Poncho and they too steal my chickens, all I want is for people to stop stealing my chickens...

Sorry kona, it is your right under the freedoms of being an American, rights that I served to protect and every single male in my family served to protect and many many other before, at the same time, do now and will in the future protect, your right to call me unamerican because I dissent, weird thing is, they and I protected my and others rights to do the same. That is until such time as they outlaw it, who knows maybe Ashcroft will get his Patriot Act II pushed through...

Then if anyone speaks side ways and he takes notice he can always label them something that will allow him to put them in prision or at worse remove thier citizenship, now thats American !!

We have a number of war time vet's in here and even though they might not care for those protesting I bet you would be hard pressed to find one of them that would make such a demand of others to see those who protest and dissent as being unAmerican.

I am not speaking of the cheap little butt munches who think that going after those who serv with verbal assults, spitting etc, those (people, term used loosly) need to either be in prision, or need a spontanious attitude adjustment on the spot.

I don't care who you are if someone spit on me for any reason I am going to break something, not beat them up, but put them in the hospital broken or end up broken or dead attempting it and they could put me in jail, at least it would be for a reason...

Hey IPUaral i did not mean what you think. I to come from a long line of military vets. I was just talking about the cheap little butt munches. If I offeneded you I am TRULY sorry. BTW what post did I say If you do not buy into the administration and keep your mouth shut your unAmerican...
I think that I was just refering to all those who have never served and don't relize what we trying to accomplish in Iraq. No big deal.

Sorry. Got your name wrong.

And I just looked over my previous posts. I have never said If you do not buy into the administration and keep your mouth shut your unAmerican...

Nobodys un-american as a person. Just thre actions can sometimes be, shall we say, not patroitic.

thre = their

but always keep in mind "badmouthing the government or the President can have severe consequenses. Be careful about what you say and type."

Sometimes it can. But you have not understood what I was trying to say. Please just leave me alone and forget I exsist. I wasn't trying to anger or upset anyone. I was just trying to convey my opinions and feelings about the war and Iraq.

kona who?... who dat?

thank you.

i understood very well what you were trying to say. maybe that´s the problem.

of course support your troups. noone would want their fellow countrymen to die.

support the government? completely different thing. they even want to take your guns away!!!!

Of course, our PM looks like a sniveling dweeb, whereas the Pres is merely a twit...

Ah....for a leader with charisma...[sigh]...

Maybe I said the wrong things. I was angry at the protesting. Sorry. I do support the troops. I support America. And I respect the protesters right to protest and have their own opinions. Clearly I have some people here mad at me. Let me pull my finger out of my butt so I can slap my own face.

Remember, I don't exsist in this thread.