Map Overview and thoughts on map gen

I’ve been willing to make this post for quite some time now. Originally, all I wanted is to understand what the different map types are and make an overview explaining what their characteristics are. But the main thing that characterzes a map is the resource generation on that map, so that is a problem that I will cover here as well.

The first thing to understand is where the different resource are generated. Each resource has a particular terrain type associated with it. They are, as follows:

Volcanic – iron.

Rocky – aluminium.

Lakebed – water.

Riverbed - water.

Sand – silicon (and water).

Crater – carbon.

Other terrain:

Water Ice and Dry Ice – these work as wild cards, and normally spawn large amounts of random resources.

Normal – also is a bit of a wild card, but doesn’t seem to spawn nearly as much.

Crack – can spawn geothermals, otherwise useless.

Slope – creates craters, ridges and overall elevation of the map.

Canyons – the empty pits of nothingness.

Hills – I call them resource killers. The general rule is: the more hills, the fewer resources.

It is not uncommon to see a resource appear not on normal terrain, but usually you will see the appropriate tile, „from which” the resource cluster spawned, even if it overlaps other terrains. Geothermal vents can spawn anywhere (occasionally, any resource can spawn out of it’s normal terrain completely), with a slight preference to volcanic, also rocky and cracks.

One last note: by elevation here I mean the dominant height of the terrain. There are 4 heights: low, medium, high and very high. All 4 are always represented on the map but in different proportion. Height is largely irrelevant (I think), it only affects the output of solar panels, so there are some maps where solar power is slightly more efficient than on the others.

It’s that simple, so let’s get to the map types. Initially I wanted to just give you a rundown of what is what but I’ve instead taken time to classify the maps, dividing them into 2 groups:

  1. Resource-specific maps
  2. Non-resource-specific maps

The first group includes: Volcanic, Lakebeds, Riverbeds, Craters and Basin.

The second group includes: Normal, Chaos, Plains, Plateau and Canyon.

„Random” is obviously just one of the above mentioned ten that is picked at random.

The main characteristic of a resource-specific map is that there is a dominant terrain type (in fact a better name perhaps would be „terrain-specific”) and as such a dominant resources. So here goes:

1. Volcano.

-          Dominant terrain: Volcanic

-          Main resource: iron (and geothermals)

-          Lacking resources: usually water and carbon

-          Hill presence: medium

-          Overall resource presence: generally high

-          Elevaton: mostly medium and high

A fairly easy map to get a good found, more often than not will have enough decent spots for everyone.

2. Basin.

-          Dominant terrain: Rocky

-          Main resource: aluminium

-          Lacking resources: hard to tell

-          Hill presence: low

-          Overall resource pesence: high

-          Elevation: mostly low and medium

Another easy to play map, somewhat more challenging due to the fact that you are not always guaranteed to have iron. However, due to the fact that there is so much of the low-height terrain, these maps often tend to have decent amounts of carbon. Besides, due to the lack of hills, this map is perhaps even a little easier than volcano.

3. Craters.

-          Main resource: carbon

-          Lacking resources: water

-          Hill presence: low-medium

-          Overall resource presence: fairly high

-          Elevation: hard to tell. There is a lot of slopes, so sometimes you can have maps with mostly high terrain and sometimes with mostly medium or low. The amount of slopes though, guarantees Wind Power effieciency.

Interesting to note that iron seems to be fairly frequent on this map, so as much as this is a „scav map”, do not expect everyone to actually go scavenger. One more thing to note: carbon never „overspawns” in general, you will almost never have maps with too much carbon, which makes it different from all other resources.

4. Riverbeds

-          Main resource: water

-          Lacking resources: everything, sometimes even water

-          Hill presence: high

-          Overall resource presence: medium-low

-          Elevation: hard to tell; not as ridgy as craters though

Initially I thought that this is one the worst maps out there. However, even though there’s more often than not insufficient good found locations, this map is slightly-slightly better than lakebeds (see below) due to more balance in resource gen. This is probably due to the fact that riverbed terrain, unlike Lakebed terrain does not spawn in massive patches over half the map and, thus, takes up less space. Overall, not a map I can recommend even for 1v1.

5. Lakebeds.

-          Main resource: water

-          Lacking resources: everything else

-          Hill presence: low

-          Overall resource presence: high, but it’s mostly water

-          Elevation: medium

Difficult map, there just never seems to be enough good founding places for everyone, even in a 1v1 setting it is an issue.

As for the second group. Their main characteristic is the fact that they aren’t concentrated on specific resources (duhh) and normally have every type of terrain on them. The main difference in all of them is in the amount of canyons and hills, which also affects the amount of resources. They generally have all resources represented (as always, though, there’s no real guarantee in what proportion).

1. Plateau.

-          Canyons: none-low

-          Hills: low

-          Amount of resources: high

-          Elevation: high

This is the most well-balanced map, that 9 time out of 10 has everything everyone needs. This is what I highly suggest to use in FFA games.

2. Plains.

-          Canyons: low- none

-          Hills: low-none

-          Amount of resources: high

-          Elevation: hard to tell

Plains actually seem to be a terrain-specific map, the primary map for sand, at least there’s always large amounts of it, making silicon and water the two primary resources on it. However, due to the fact that it is a very flat map, there’s usually other resources lying around, which is why I don’t want to put it into the first group (besides, I’m just not sure I am correct)

3. Normal.

-          Canyons: low

-          Hills: medium

-          Amount of resources: medium

-          Elevation: hard to tell

A pretty straightforward map, a little bit of everything. It’s alright.

4. Canyon.

-          Canyons: high; but usually in a single corner or on a single side. The terrain is not that chaotic

-          Hills: medium-high

-          Amount of resources: medium-low

-          Elevation: high

An interesting map. One of the things I have noticed, regarding resource generation, is that for some reason, if there’s a lot of hills/canyons on the map, it tends to spawn individual high sources of a particular resource sometimes, instead of having it in a cluster. This is usually the case on this map (even more so on Chaotic).

5. Chaos.

-          Canyons: high

-          Hills: very high

-          Amount of resources: appalling

-          Elevation: very hard to tell as there is often no continuous patch of land. Every map has all 4 types of elevation but this map is a ridge on top of a ridge on top of a ridge. That pretty much sums it up. This also is the only map where the canyon doesn’t sit quietly in the corner but rather creates ridges in the middle of nowhere. You will also sees „pits” in the middle of the landmass.

 

So, now that you see the list, let’s get to the issue. What is a good found? After seeing all these maps I’m going to say this: a good found is the one where you at least have enough of your primary resource to not get behind in upgrades too much. Forget everything else, you just need something better than low iron/carbon, and usually there will be a good found on the map. The problem is, to have a nice competitive game, everyone needs a decent found. And the maps just don’t often give you that. Now, you could argue that the player who doesn’t get the good iron should try to get creative and make power or whatever and rely on other people overproducing the necessary resources, but when a large map, meant for 6 players only has 3 decent founding locations, you’re out of the game if you don’t get one of those.

Speaking of the map size, I have noticed that almost all the maps offer good resource quantities for 1v1. This is probably because normally, 1v1 is played on a Small map, instead of the Tiny, which is the default size. So, I am going to make an arguement, that perhaps the medium map is just a little too small for 4 players and large is a little too small for 6. There is no map other than Plateau, that consistently creates enough „good founds” for all the players. In 1v1 most maps work though, except perhaps Lakebeds and Riverbeds, just due to resource balance (and Chaotic, which can create good maps, but it’s a 50-50 chance).

Another reason, why we get to blame map gen so much is because everyone uses random map types, and, while I like the idea of having these terrain-specific maps, let’s just face it, the balance is off on those. What’s the point of a map that has 120 sources of water and only 20 sources of aluminium, most of which is low garbage anyway?

I can’t really think of a solution for the problem, at least yet. I can only suggest a couple things.

  1. People, stop using the random map type all the time. I know there is no info on the maps in-game, but now that I’ve made this overview, I hope people will start picking maps. The problem I fear, is that everyone will just start playing on Plateau/Normal/Volcanic but at least it should eliminate the „map RNG is horrible!” problem. I would say that for 1v1 the other maps work out a lot better, because there should be enough good founds AND there should be some lacking resources, making fighting for resources more fun.
  2. Information about the maps should make it into the game at some point. It’s probably not the most pressing issue but I’m sure people who don’t read the forums would appreciate that.
  3. Rebalancing the map sizes should be considered perhaps... What do you think?
  4. For those who want to stick to the random map, perhaps it should be made possible to choose what map the random should be picked from, as in „I don’t really care but I don’t want to play on Chaotic and Riverbeds”.
  5. Perhaps maps could be broken into some groups, either the way I did or based on „difficulty level”. Notice I have listed them from easiest to hardest in each group, at least the way I see it.

 

P.S.  I will be giving this topic more thought, I just really wanted to post it cause I’m sick of running tests against the AI for now. Also, I'm curious what others think.

P.P.S. I know there’s a secret cult of Ra-worshippers within the OTC community. Well, after seeing how map gen works, I’m going to start a secret cult of worshippers of the God of Water Ice, the Saviour of Resource Gen. I am currently thinking on the name for our Great God.

26,655 views 7 replies
Reply #1 Top

Great post. Hate Chaos. Love dry ice. Not sure about your map-size suggestions... I like the sizes the maps are especially with respect to travel time edge-to-edge.

1) I think a strong argument against this is that players like some level of randomness, and the setting/tileset seems a really good way to mix up the randomness and allow you to blame the game if it makes something crap rather than the host/options selected -- remember that absolving the host of blame when a shit game occurs is strangely important -- but when RNG is soo random that it can throw out a perfectly playable Plains one game and a detestable Chaos POS the next, rage occurs. I'd be 100% in favour of limiting the generic "random" pool down to Volcano, Craters, Plains, Lakebeds, Plateau and Normal. I find Chaos, Riverbeds and Canyon often give me the least playable maps -- but giving players choice like you suggest in point 4. goes down really well with me.

2) Preview of next build had some additional information in the found phase on the design not sure if a paragraph describing the design intent is enough but it's a start.

3) Not sure I'd rebalance the sizes as I mentioned above, would prefer to see small changes to the generation RNG before altering the current values.

4) See 1.

5) 100% agree with this. Easily done with a simple "Difficulty: Hard/Easy" on the tooltip next to the map-type selection dropdown information tooltip. "Random" map selection could then be done from one or more of the pools.

Reply #2 Top

Thanks for putting this together. I do agree that certain maps pose particular challenges for finding spawns. In my opinion, one of the major factors is due to resource crushing. Players love to spawn on the largest clumps of resources, destroying them for use, so 1 players can often take out 2 spawns by doing this. This is most common with scavenger/craters. Seeing ice/dry ice on a larger variety maps (perhaps in craters/against ridges) might help by providing variety too.

More consistency between the map types/resource volume would improve things greatly. The map types with large portions of the terrain unplayable have far less resources/founding locations than the others. This makes picking the correct map size challenging since about half the maps are fine, and half should be 1 size bigger to compensate. I don't like how the game plays out when all of the resources are overly abundant, but its no fun when people quit when they miss out on the too few usable spawns*.

Additionally, the addition of reveal map makes spawning so much better, since everyone has a chance to look at the map and decide where to found at what cost. The only issue with reveal map is that players don't know how it works, and the debt clock is woefully inadequate, in font and size.

*I don't 100% agree that there aren't viable options for play, however, the current "best build order" for each of the colony types seems pretty much defined as of right now. As such, it's pretty easy to screw other players by crushing the resources they clearly are spawning for and its pretty clear when resources are missing. Steel's weakness is power.

Reply #3 Top

I have not read everything but i'd like to see the hex on the map to represent the resources they have on while still having the cube. I understand the concept we are on Mars (i think) so yeah it make sense to "mine" the water. So i would not start to put lakes and river if you want to keep this feeling but at the same time it would not be too out of the concept to add lakes or frozen water lakes.

Reply #4 Top

I beg of you to leave the randomness random! Games that have massive resources mean dispersed mines, less effective underground nukes, over saturation of the market, and more. Sometimes its nice to have a map flush with resources, but some of the most fun and intense rounds are fighting over limited resources. Having to cluster mines for the proximity bonus on top of one-stack minerals becomes necessary, and that's what makes this game great-- different styles of play and tactics depending on the map you get.

Reply #5 Top

Thanks for the response guys.

Now that I've actually played some games, I do feel like my suggestion to resize the map may have been slightly short-sighted.It could help some maps but it definitely will create over-abundancy of resources on others, and no, I never suggested that, that would be boring. What is needed is simply more balance between resource presence on each map type. There's absolutely no reason for a medium map to have enough aluminium for 7 people and only enough iron for 1, even if it's a basin.

Furthermore, having hosted some games and chosen certain map types I have to say this: it's official, there are exactly 4 map types that people want to play: Plateau, Normal, Volcano and Plains. Picking even Craters/Basin gets you the blame. Currently I see no reason whatsoever to play on random map, except for (as I said in the post) 1v1, where most maps work well enough.

I guess part of the reason why I care so much about map gen is that I am overly attached to my generic opening and like having basic resources too much. The recent Power Robot trend is an advocate against whatever I'm saying here but I still feel like there shouldn't be maps that force you to do something "creative".

P.S.

The map descriptions are in the game (hurray!). However I feel like they should be a little more descriptive, at least when it comes to the resource-specific maps. I mean, the names for those maps are really self-explanatory (except for Basin) but perhaps puttin the key resource into the description would be useful after all. Also, according to the description, Plains ARE the sand-map after all.

 

Reply #6 Top

Yerand, I agree. Playing this weekend, we restarted several times because the maps just weren't playable. 2 useable spawns locations in games of 5 people on a map that should be large enough? I want some resource scarcity, but short iron and carbon is just silly since they are so crucial. At least with the other resources being short, you can sacrifice the short term to claim the important tiles. If you need 1500 steel over the course of a game (or an absurd amount of carbon), you have to produce it at some point.

Even running power robot, I still need iron/steel, and there's often few if any stray iron tiles . Late game steel usage is so heavy that its necessary to produce some myself, otherwise the expansive/scientific earns too much money selling that steel to me. Or they just rush offworlds and never sell any steel.

Reply #7 Top

I don't really want to rewrite the stuff but there's one thing that has been updated in Beta 4 that I didn't pay attention to at first when it came out. It is the way Ice works.

Apart from the fact that there's a lot more dry ice now (yay), water/dry ice are no longer terrain types on their own but rather something that goes on top of a terrain type, so you can now see the terrain under ice if you hover over it. This kinda makes resource gen much more balanced because they no longer spawn huge patches of resources with multi-resource tiles because all the general rules apply to them. Thus the cult of the Ice God has ended without ever getting more than one follower.

I have to say I have learnt to appreciate most maps somewhat but I am yet to see anyone who likes Chaos. To quote Zultar: "There are 3 carb...  Soren, there are 3 carbon tiles on this map! What are you doing?!"

I'm still not a fan of Riverbeds too.