Skinner's, never know what your gonna get !

Jafo, I meant it in a cause-effect sort of way. I never intended to blame anybody for the rejection. I apologise if my statement caused hurt to anybody. I didn't mean to do it. And you of all people, Jafo, should know that I take rejections in the right spirit, I even ask you tips to make the submission better the next time. Please my last comment may be ignored or deleted, it was mere jest.
I aplogise once again to Frogboy (Brad is it?) if my statement caused any hurt to him, and to you Jafo and other moderators too. I do not suspect the process; I have no reason too.

And you too Sir WOM (if you notice, I am back to calling you Sir.) I respect your judgement and value your advice. I think I owe you an apology too. And an explanation that it was just an off the cuff jest. I hope that there are no hard feelings.

No problem, @shu...I just thought it more apropos to explain rather than remove, as 'wall moderation' is often a 'touchy' subject [mild understatement], but as you know, necessary...

No problem @shu. Remember we can only see whats in front of us and not your body language. So everyone makes up their mind from what we see and thats all.

I'd like the world to be full of nice flowers and cute fluffy bunnies. For everyone to have all the chocolate they want and be warm and snug.

Oh, I forgot, this planet is Earth...

/me goes out and slashes wrists

OK, topic dropped.
I'm sure everybody is very convinced in his rights on every side. Even Iraq invading Koweit though they were right (Koweit was initially part of Iraq before the British made it a seperate nation (back when they were both British colonies)), although everybody else thinks they were wrong.
It's SUPPOSED to be why UN exists, to determine who is right or wrong. But oh well...

Maybe, paxx, we can start talking about it again after the deadlock ends. I hope, nay, I pray, that it ends peacefully.
But if it ends in war, one side of this debate will have to admit its mistake, its whole take on the issue. I just wish with all my heart that I be on that side, or it would be that all the destruction was for nothing.

And Sir WOM and Jafo (I dunno, never could associate you with a title, its what, four/five months since I became a member?), I will keep in mind that what I write may not necessarily convey what I mean. The next time, I will try to choose words much more carefully.

@shu...the 'J' in 'JAFO' stands for 'just'...not as in 'upright and proper', but as in 'merely'...so a 'sir' would be a bit pointless....

U.N. Inspectors Find Chemical Warheads
25 minutes ago


BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.N. inspectors found 11 chemical warheads in "excellent" condition Thursday at an ammunition storage area, where they were inspecting bunkers built in the late 1990s, a U.N. spokesman reported.

A 12th warhead also was found that requires further evaluation, according to the statement by Hiro Ueki, the spokesman for U.N. weapons inspectors in Baghdad.

The team used portable X-ray equipment to conduct a preliminary analysis of one of the warheads and collected samples for chemical testing, Ueki's statement said.


"The warheads were in excellent condition and were similar to ones imported by Iraq during the late 1980's," the statement said.


The warheads were found during a visit by inspectors to bunkers built in the late 1990s at the Ukhaider Ammunition Storage Area in southern Iraq.

well, I suppose it was inevitable

Saddam's for it now...

Just heard that those casings were empty though.

Yup sure did, stamped " MADE IN THE USA " on them too.

By the way, there were also declared the last time around and this time around so they were not being sneaky about anything.

In the Gulf War they dispersed such things around everywhere in the event of invasion. This would logistically be the best means in providing a line of support without having to move anything to troops or citizens fighting the invading people. Citizen-Soldiers, people fighting for and upon the soil of their sovereign nation, what a concept.

It's so, un-democratic.

As a wife of a soldier who participated in the Gulf War, I wish we were able to take out Sadaam then. But because the Arab countries didn't want to help in the formation of a new government for Iraq, we withdrew. I do think that we should all be behind the troops while they are over there. They need support and encouragement and not bickering and fussing about the "what-if's". When Sadaam has a nuclear bomb will be to late. Sadaam has to be removed, no ifs and buts about it. Then Iraq's people will be able to speak their minds just like free Americans. They are too frightened to say anything other than what they have to too remain alive. If we don't removed terrorism it will come back even stronger and more vicious than September 11, 2001.

God Bless America!!

I doubt there are many people with any ounce of compassion in them who aren't behind the guys we've got over there - be you for a war or against.

It's just that to somebody who is /not/ for an attack - support equates getting those men and women home even more vehemently than someone not opposed to it more often than not.

And sadly, the thought that we - or anybody else - will ever get rid of terrorism in this world (or at least in our lifetimes,) is a pipe-dream of the Presidents not even shared by most of the other people in the white house.

But as for me - I'm keeping my political views out of all of this. ^.^

Amen. The poor soldier sent to war certainly isn't to blame about his government's decisions. Even the poor Iraqee (sp?) soldiers who were sent to invade Koweit.

Sure, a governement change would be immensely welcomed in Iraq, same goes with Libya, Saudi Arabia, Koweit, Iran, Bahrain, Oman, Qatar, Sudan, Syria, Democratic Republic of Congo (which isn't democratic whatsoever - formerly called Zaire), Swaziland, N. Korea, China, Brunei, Burma, Vietnam and Cuba.

And I probably forgot a couple.

The "Chemical Warheads" looked very much like plain vanilla Katyusha type unguided tactical 'artillery' rocket tubes.
The 'excellent' condition in Iraqi terms means they were not rusted out yet.
Hardly ICBM weaponry and if I remember correctly from our news 12 hours ago they numbered between a dozen or perhaps two dozen.
Not enough reason to invade.
I'd suggest a slack weapons officer forgot them but I wouldn't lay money on it.
Of course, the idea of them being 'planted' by an unknown third party would be just too cynical, not!
Paxx, add South Korea, India, Pakistan, Taiwan, Singapore, Indonesia, Chad, The Arab Emirates, Haiti, Ethiopia ..... the list goes on.

I'm a vet, my brothers a vet, all five of my uncles are vet's and two uncles died in uniform in vietnam my grandfathers were both vet's of ww2 a great-uncle died in korea and one son who just turned 18 last month has been active duty five weeks after he turned 17 another 17 yearold son is graduating and signing up at the end of the school year and my father is a vet. 4 of my 6 closest friends are vet that I met out at the VA here in St Pete and my best friend served with my father and he noticed my last name when he visited my bbs almost 12 years ago and asked in the off chance dad and I were related.

The thought of not supporting or worse blaming the ones in harms way is repugnant to say the least.

That said, it does not dictate that I have to like, follow or support the ideals and presentations of the standing administration. Being that I have a small family military history it hits me hard to feel that those who serve could possibly end up being put into harms way when in fact it is not clear to me that the situation is nothing more than social engineering, presentation of information to instill fear, agner, hate, loathing, or moral right just to attain some set of personal goals of those in the white house or sitting in some corporate energy board room.

Define it, the reason, the proof and the intent. Put it to the people and let them decide for themselves. All the talk about this poll shows this percent is for or against is almost a joke in and of itself. Numbers are manipulated to show the desired out-come in almost anything but pure science and even there it is questionable. Global warming for instance. It took years for them to agree it is real, and now they want to fight over if it is good or bad, playing what if with everyones lives. Well for me, the government works for the people, the citizens of this nation and it is not chartered to play " what if " in any situation and especially when it comes to out right invading another nation for the 1st in it's history without being attacked first. Iraq did not attack the USA and there was not one Iraqi in any of those jet's on 9 / 11. But there were 15 Arabs from a nation which is our Oil Rich buddies in Saudi Arabia. As far as Saddam maybe training terrorist goes, that it kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. The USA, CIA, SOG and others connected to the US government have been training people in the same tactics for as long as the US has been reaching beyond it's shores in the name of National Interests.

We can kill all we like until we can not kill anymore and others will step into line so the killing keep continuing even after we finally get fed up with it. If anything I would think that Americans could not only grasp this concept but fully understand it. After all our nation was born of the blood spilled by those who to a stand and would rather die than bow down to one of the largest if not strongest Super Powers of the time.

There is no honor is death, there is no honor in killing, in the end it is just dead people. In 19, 15, 20 years time everyone will be buddies. Seems to me at some point people would figure out that War is the last resort no matter what.

Bush, and others from the administration, supports of them, citizens supporting them have all stated it is up to Saddam. We don't want war, but he has to do this or that, and he is evil and on and on and on. Well the fact remains that from day one when they announced issue with Iraq the administration was telling the people and the world that they were doing this no matter what anyone thinks. They did not need to go to congress or the UN it is their legal if not God given right to do so. They stuck to this track for a short period of time until they noticed the un-rest it was causing here with some people and also around the world and backed up. Then started saying, well of course we were going to congress and the UN form the begining.

Anyway, enough on that, you do not have to support War or a government in order to not turn your back on those who end up in harms way.

Paxx, add the US of A to that list too.

Well, just a change of president would be nice down there, not a whole change of regime...

Well said mrbiotech. Viruses can be far more horrific than nuclear weapons, especially in the hands of someone as nefarious as Saddam. Saddam has already proved he is capable of unspeakable acts and will use any means at his disposal, against absolutely anyone, to maintain his despotism. He is the one bringing about this conflict not the UK or US. Quite a few people here seem to have lost sight of what this conflict is about. It's not about destroying Iraq, it's about ridding the world of a lunatic who has no morals or conscience.

For those of you against this action just remember Saddam would do unto you without a seconds thought. Remember that when you try to sleep tonight.

Let's just say the links aren't 'necessary'....


#177 by Mr mrbiotech - 1/18/2003 5:16:06 AM
Just FYI,

Iraq has been hiring previous members of the Biopreparat (Russia's continuing biological warfare organization and labs) for years, and they're likely not making antibiotics. What isn't explicitly stated by CNN and other news orgs is that these Biopreparat members have previously engineered weaponized forms of Ebola Zaire (the Mayinga strain), among other less insidious creations. They've created aerosol versions of the virus deadly enough to kill by only inhaling 3-20 viral particles (to get a cold virus, you must inhale approximately 3,000-1,000,000 viral particles). Within 7 days, your bowels liquefy, and you explosively bleed out of every orifice, infecting everyone else around in the process. This is why the scientific community gets a feverish chill when 11 chemical/bio warheads are found unaccounted for.

For more information of the legitamacy of this claim, I advise you read BIOHAZARD, a book by Ken Alibek, head of the Russian Biopreparat previous to defecting to the USA, and The Cobra Event, by Richard Preston, regarding some of his sources used in writing the book.

To scare yourselves into a shocking reality of what just plain Ebola is capable of, read Richard Preston's "The Hot Zone," the true book that became the basis for the movie "Outbreak."

Ebola isn't difficult to create in a lab. In fact, the genomic information (complete genetic code) is in the public domain.

As a concerned scientist, I am wholeheartedly behind ousting Saddam Hussein and his insane regime through whatever means are necessary, because they have demonstrated in the past that they like to play with whatever toys they can concont.

President KIM in N. Korea is far far far more dangerous than Saddam is. Not that Saddam isn't, but Kim is one of the most dangerous leader in the history of mankind. Some people compare him in atrocity to Hitler.
Out of the 22 million people in North Korea, about 10 million are litterally dying of starvation. In the meantime, Kim recently ordered 20 Mercedez Benz for his private use, representing 1/4 of the money given to his country for humanitary help.
Sure Saddam also lives in a Palace, but Iraqee people are nowhere as poor as North Koreans are.

Also, North Korea has the THIRD most powerfull army in the world. It owns 2 nuclear bombs. It is also documented that North Korea was directly involved in helping Pakistan and India to acquire Nuclear power.
There is every reason to believe that North Korea is more likely to sell nuclear/chemical weapon to Al Qaida that Iraq is.

North Korea represents an actual real threat to the World, while Iraq for now is only a maybe future possibility. North Korea HAS to be neutralised.

Saturday 18/01/03.
Australian public poll re invading Iraq.
All the way with the USA regardeless of the UN, 6% in favour.
Yes, provided the UN sanctions the action, 64% in favour.
No way at all, 30% in favour.
Give or take a % either way on the last two, but 6% only is firm.