Master mormegil, why bother with a subscriber only section? I just don't see the benefits.

Yeah, there might be benefits, but they can be achieved much more easily and effectively via other methods discussed.

Alternative to limiting non-subscribes to skins and stuff rated above 8, limit them to skins and stuff 5 or under, so when they subscribe they really are receiving better content.

Amendment to previous idea, have the top download from each catagory available to everyone as a featured skin. This'll show non-subscribers what kind of stuff is available to subscribers.

as soon as you use skin rating to limit access to skins, you can get the "wincustomize is selling my free work for profit" argument all over again

remember how many times we had this when the subscription was first introduced?

uh oh, doreenosis has set in...where's the morphine?

no, put the Morpheus back...I said morphINE...

hmm...i forgot about that old point...good one feline...

I still stand up for all new visitors and potential customers. I like the idea of a free site, and support free access to everything that is available here. Nobody should be sort of forced to buy a subscription, especially when they browse through the wallpaper section. If so many visitors slurp up the bandwidth what would happen if you make them subscribe? There are lots of other sites that have skins to grab from. They turn away...and perhaps the ones that subscribe will be unsatisfied and I bet you get some crazy threads. The only thing that I can think of is limit the number of downloads per person per section. Don't let the majority of visitors bleed for "heavy users".

Jobeleca: "Alternative to limiting non-subscribes to skins and stuff rated above 8, limit them to skins and stuff 5 or under, so when they subscribe they really are receiving better content."
Sorry but I think this is a loser of an idea. Even with your addendum, i would lead people to believe most skins here are crap.

/me to feline

With regards to the argument you mentioned... The solution is for WinCustomize admins to post monthly how much money was taken in via sales and how much was spent on bandwidth, servers, basically on the cost of running the site. As long as the site doesn't show a profit that would kill that argument.

/me to paxx

Good point, an alternative is to let them see all the previews, but only download the skins below a certain rating.

BTW, do you really mean: "i would lead people to believe most skins here are crap."?

With a subscriber only section, we could make it optional, if you post in that section, yo won't have the your selling my work argument, becuse we will have agreed to it when we posted.

If you want to fix something that has weakened, look at what it was originally designed to do and compare it to what it's trying to do.

If every site has to be 'everything to everyone', then this isn't much of a community. I don't think anyone can outdo the big bitbuckets at hosting wallpapers and the mega apps. Be better at what they aren't being better at.

The problem isn't that people aren't paying, it is that some non-paying sections are costing too much. Why not use the site as a incubator for smaller skinnables, and therefore skinning, with the main SD apps as it's cashflow? If a non-SD section is too big of a drain, replace it; the app doesn't *need* promotion any longer.

If Stardock apps alone are too big of a drain, then WC isn't necesarily the problem. Stardock was hosting them before WC.

My post is up there, and I stand by it. Considering I was the first one to espouse removing the wallpaper section, I'm the cause for all the ashes and sackcloth. My advice would be to get over it.

Oh, and get rid of the wallpaper section.
(the preceding statement was made to give the weepy something to do while I am taking a nap.)

true...true...

Lecrayon: "They turn away..." to who? Enemies? I hate the idea that somehow someone going to Devart or Deskmod is a defeat for WC. If you guys aren't comfortable going to other sites, I feel for ya, but most of use go to all of them anyway.

/me to mormegil

Isn't that what the little box is for you can check whether or not stardock can your your skins on CD's? That box is basically asking whether or not you want them to sell your stuff.

/me to bakerstreet

I say keep the wallpaper section. The wallpapers are much much better than I've been able to find elsewhere, and consistantly so. That alone is a strong argument for keeping the section. Also, without the wallpaper section the number of logon and wb themes will decrease as the wallpapers are often an ispiration and much to the work.

Lecrayon - sure, it would be great to leave it as it is but that is no longer viable. In a perfect world and all that. To say that it should all be free to whomever wants it ignores the problem Brad identified in the beginning.

To chef Gary...I didn't say to leave it as it is..I gave some thoughts how to possibly handle overloads somewhere in the thread..
To Bakerstreet: not enemies, they (visitors) will most likely not want to browse to this site anymore...

Lecrayon: That's an odd conclusion. Why exactly are they browsing here now? There is no Talisman section, and yet here I am. Assuming that people will just refuse to come here if they can't get everything they need isn't logical. They can't get everything they need now. As a matter of fact it is a pain to upload skins to 5 or 6 duplicate sections on different sites.

I'll say it again. If this is a community, and not a competition, then there would be no defeat in people going to other sites to get some things.

My first upload in Wincustomize (and on any skinsite) was a wallpaper. It was not the best, but encouraged me to make my first zoomer.
Ok, ok, the walpapers aren't allways the first works of a customizer, and.... i recognize that i never created a zoomer if i not visited the mormegil website and readed their tutorials.
I guess Wincustomize is a site of Stardock products. Is a good idea to have a section for mediaplayers, but maybe only for WMP (winamp have their skin site at deskmod i guess).
It will be a Wallpaper section. The actual section is highly 'modered'. I don't know how to limit this section. Maybe the 'Monthly contest' will be good: just adding the best wallpapers! Sometimes i wish to search a good wallpaper, and i stop because this section is very big!
It will be a good point to limit the downloads to free visitors, but the free visitors will only download the featured/most downloaded skins. A best idea will be the 'Credits': it will be needed a free account to download, then you get a credit (for example 10000 'wincusters'), any time you make a download, the credit amount decreases (400 for fetaured skins/40 for non featured skins). Of course, the Stardock/Wincustomize buyers have unlimited credit.

by JourneyMan pjpowell - 11/26/2002 11:27:16 AM
JM: The crying reference was not aimed at you. Only the first bit about not using a wall was. I just got a bit irked by your statement that skins would be nothing without a wall. It's true that a wallpaper can certainly complement a skin but most good skins can stand without a wallpaper.

Okay, my mistake then... maybe I'm a little too thin skinned (small pun there)

/me to Carlitus

Your monthly contest sounds like an excellent idea to me! Probably one of the best suggestions I've heard for limiting new submissions. I'd like the old ones to be avaiable though (but the section does need serious culling)

The wallpaper section isn't going anywhere.

We looked at bandwidth usage and while the wallpaper section does us around 10% of the bandwidth, it's not enough to target specifically.

I think what we'll probably do is something like this:

Users without accounts will only be able to download 2 megabytes before they have to create an account.

Once they create an account, they can only download 5 things per day after they've downloaded 10 megabytes of content unless they're a subscriber, apprenctice or higher, or have purchased something.

Somewhat (but only partially) off topic. http://news.com.com/2100-1023-975320.html?tag=fd_lede1_hed

sounds reasonable to me Frogboy.

as long as i´m still allowed to rant on the messageboard i won´t complain anyways

I agree with Lecrayon on the point that you want people to browse and try out parts of the site. That is just good business sence as far as I am conserned.

Wallpapers seem to be the issue here. So why not let it be viewed but not downloaded? People have to sign in to download. Also I think the "freloader" are people who would sign in anyway and suck the life out of the site AND still go to deviant art and deskmod. So a cap would still be in play anyway.

Can't download wallpapers until you sign up and when you do sign up you can only have 5 per day unless your a sunsciber to the site or bought something.

THEN politly ask them to:

Go to DeviantArt!
Go to DeskMod for more!!
Join the Wincutomize Community for more!!!!!!
Or Buy the full version of "whatever_program"

And tell them how they can get all the downloads they want of off this site.


I also think that the Wincustomize store could be beefed up with more stuff. Also with the subscriptions, show all the features they would get for 20 dollars.

Then for the "buggers" who post I HATE THIS SITE or IT USE TO BE FREE!! have a post that always stays on top of the message board or something explaining the situation. I think that is as far as we can go to be polite, after that it is up to them to be apart of the site or not.