Altarn's Polished Twilight of the Arnor 1 and 2

MabusAltarn

Join Date 05/2006

+35

Altarn's Polished Twilight of the Arnor 1 and 2

Fix mod

External Link

APT2

Download here

APT2 is a complete overhaul from APT1. APT2 is NOT a pure fix mod. Pick up APT1 for that.

It features:

Massively improved research through techtree structure standardization
Each race uses a base Dark Avatar inspired techtree featuring its own unique technology. This results in extremely reliable research for each species.
Fully working TechTrade and Diplomacy
Updated Campaigns compatible with APT2
Enjoy all campaigns fully compatible with APT2.
Updated UI to reduce mouse movement and save time
Dozens of screen updates were done to make them faster to use.
Updated Technology descriptions
Hundreds of updates.
Balanced starting conditions
Everyone gets the same base structures leaving no one behind. The result is much more balances AI build up early in the game.
Revamped Super Annihilator ability
Spore Ships no longer exist. Super Annihilators get full use of toxic planets and a very cheap and powerful soldering ability.

APT1

Everything that was done to make APT can be found here and here but the gist of it is this.

APT is my attempt at fixing the game with as little modding as possible. I fixed the techtree errors and focused on some key technologies that the AI should really have to remain competitive while making sure the AI wouldn't get stuck in a researching. I did this with as little AIValue hacking as possible which means techtrading, with a few exceptions, is unaltered.

The result is AI research that works, isn't not perfect and a little random but it is fun to play against.

Go here to Download

Enjoy,

Altarn.

How to install APT or any other fix mod:

Version log.

For more details see the spreadsheet linked to on the APT webside https://sites.google.com/site/mabusraeen/ in the Files section.

2.0.1
* Revamped several 1pp buildings that got upgraded. This is bugged (thanks Gaunator) and presented issues to player and AI in certain situations. More info in the change log.

2.0
To many to list here. See the change document linked to on this page.

1.3
* Fixed temple of Neutrality
* Fixed Smart Drone requirement so it's available for species without Xeno Factory Construction
* Research Academy didn't have an AIvalue

1.2
* Removed Healing Pools from Drath & Altarian techtrees. Gave Temple same stats.
* Drengin use Market Center now instead of black market. They can't upgrade the Black Market
* Changed all GAs that civs start with to superprojects.
* Added improvement properties info to descriptions.
* Upgrading Starbase modules will need their previous version
* Aul Incinerator can not be spied or destroyed same as other PQ changers
* Fixed a few categories and IDs
* Fixed Thalan Gaia Vortex
* Fixed GravityAccelerators
* Switched costs SoilEnhancement/HabitatImprovement
* Switched costs Invention Matrix/Discovery Sphere
* Switched costs Stock Market/Banking Center
* Seekers (Yor, Iconians) can now be traded
* Yor Stalks have same AI value as regular farms
* Gave trade goods HarmonyCrystals, HyperComputers and GalacticExhibition AI of 5, same as other trade goods
* Added custom texts to all levels of espionage
* The Korath use their own version of a Basic Lab. When they research new research tech this structure gets upgraded properly.

1.1
* Everyone researches Xeno Ethics
* Everyone researches Planetary Invasion
* Cathedral of Valor changed to a GA that gives soldering and cannot be spied.
* Super Spy Training Center now gives civ wide research, but no espionage.
* Temple of Espionage now gives 100% espionage, but no research,
* Starbase Modules revamped.
* Made Evil Weapons unattractive to research AI overuses them and they're much to expensive.
* Enlarged the Rally Point window.

1
* Improved AI research
* Reformats text for readability
* Fixed bad language and spelling
* Reused Icons from DA/DL to give nearly every structure a unique icon
* Added small touches lore wise
* Recoloured Korx, Krynn and Iconians

modding

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Gaunathor

Mabus is your work complete, or are you working on a 1.2 of your mod?

Appreciate your work mate.

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DarkNeutron,

Yes I'm working on 1.2.

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Quoting MabusAltarn,

reply 13

I noticed the Korath never upgraded their slave labs with Xeno Labs. Makes sense, Xeno Lab's upgrade target is Basic Lab. Since you can't have one structure upgrade multiple upgrade targets I made a copy of Basic Lab and gave it the same properties as the starter slave lab and had it unlocked by a new custom tech similar to traditional research.

Have you noticed the same problem with Drengin Black Markets, as they progress through the traditional economic techs? As I'm sure you know, I solved the problem by giving giving the Korath economic techs to the Drengin and the Drengin research techs to the Korath. Doing so may be more of a deviation from pure TotA than you would like, but it seems fairly obvious that it should have been that way to start with.

Another way to address the issue would be to split Ruthless History into multiple background techs, each granting access to one basic structure. Then, you could replace the starting tech for Slave Labs with Traditional Research, so the Korath start with basic labs instead of Slave Labs. I did something similar with Industrial Revolution for my 3.x mod. Why would an industrial revolution necessitate basic markets or entertainment centers, anyway?

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Quoting Tolmekian,

reply 28

Good idea, but there is no need to split up A Ruthless History (at least not because of this improvement). The Slaveling Imagination Lab is already getting unlocked by a different tech, Specialized Research.

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Quoting Tolmekian,

reply 28

Quoting MabusAltarn, reply 13I noticed the Korath never upgraded their slave labs with Xeno Labs. Makes sense, Xeno Lab's upgrade target is Basic Lab. Since you can't have one structure upgrade multiple upgrade targets I made a copy of Basic Lab and gave it the same properties as the starter slave lab and had it unlocked by a new custom tech similar to traditional research.

Have you noticed the same problem with Drengin Black Markets, as they progress through the traditional economic techs? As I'm sure you know, I solved the problem by giving giving the Korath economic techs to the Drengin and the Drengin research techs to the Korath. Doing so may be more of a deviation from pure TotA than you would like, but it seems fairly obvious that it should have been that way to start with.

Another way to address the issue would be to split Ruthless History into multiple background techs, each granting access to one basic structure. Then, you could replace the starting tech for Slave Labs with Traditional Research, so the Korath start with basic labs instead of Slave Labs. I did something similar with Industrial Revolution for my 3.x mod. Why would an industrial revolution necessitate basic markets or entertainment centers, anyway?

No the market centers I didn't know. Thanks I'll fix that. The (minor) problem with giving the Korath Tradition Research is that the basic lab is more powerful per tile than the slave lab. Since I'm very keen on changing as little numbers as possible I decided to create a special Basic Lab with the same properties as the slave lab but upgradable to a Xeno Lab.

I'll split up RuthlessHistory into two techs and give the Black Market to the Korath and NeutralHistory to the Drengin giving them the Market Center.

Any other examples of upgrade trouble?

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Quoting MabusAltarn,

reply 31

The (minor) problem with giving the Korath Tradition Research is that the basic lab is more powerful per tile than the slave lab.

The Research Lab isn't that much more powerful (6RP compared to 4RP) than the Slaveling Imagination Lab, but it is definitely more expensive to maintain (5bc compared to 2bc).

Quoting MabusAltarn,

reply 31

Any other examples of upgrade trouble?

The Altarians and Drath have the Entertainment Center, Healing Pool and the Drathian Temple in their tech tree. Those improvements are relatively weak and the Altarians and Drath have no way to improve them. This also means, that there are three morale improvements in the build list at the same time, which can be quite problematic for the AI.

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Quoting Gaunathor,

reply 32

I 'fixed' this by removing Healing pools and giving the Drathian Temple the same costs and properties as Healing Pools. Healing Pools, to me, always seemed out of place in the Drath and Altarian techtrees.

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I'm interested in a mod that will fix the problems of the basic game. I've looked at the Metaverse mod section and am bewildered because there are so many mods, many quite old.

Where should I go to find the mods spoken of in this particular thread, in addition to Altern's site linked in the initial post?

Thanks

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Quoting clif9710,

reply 34

This discussion of mods has me salivating. From what I read, it appears the vanilla game has serious problems with the techs. As a newcomer, it's great to have the knowledge base that all of you have built and the work you've done to make the game better.

I'm interested in a mod that will fix the problems of the basic game. I've looked at the Metaverse mod section and am bewildered because there are so many mods, many quite old.

Where should I go to find the mods spoken of in this particular thread, in addition to Altern's site linked in the initial post?

Thanks

I don't think there is a single thread that discusses the pro and cons of mods and I think my site is the only site that actually lists them.

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MabusAltern - I found the page on your site that lists the two other mods that seem to make up, along with yours, the trio of most recent efforts. Thanks to the links you provide, I've downloaded all of them and will give them a try.

Though I have only played a few games - I'm finding that at normal difficulty the vanilla game is easier than it should be. All I have to do is inspect the enemy weaponry by examining their ships in orbit around their planets, then tailor-make my ships to protect me from what they have while employing weapons for which they have no defense. Then it is a walk over, no matter how strong they might appear to be militarily from the stats. I easily move from last to first place in the military category. Each civ seems to build ships with only one type of weapon and little or no defense instead of a challenging mix of beams, missiles and mass-drivers.

From what I can tell, GC2 is over six years old now and my impression is that Stardock has abandoned it. Many thanks to you few who are sticking with it to make it better for all of us.

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qrtxian

Join Date 03/2010

+30

Uh, focusing on one weapon type is smart strategy. The AI may make mistakes in its ship designs (including the aforementioned lack of defense, though that isn't always the case) but this isn't one of them.

Also, "Normal" difficulty is not actually normal difficulty - the first level of difficulty where the AI is not handicapped to some degree is actually "Tough".

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I had a small look through your new version. Most of the issues I mentioned are fixed now, but a few still remain. There are also some typos and incorrect descriptions. I didn't went through the tech trees again, however, because my issues there were mostly a difference in opinion. All that still remains are some play tests, but I haven't had time to do that yet.

PlanetImprovements.xml
- new descriptions: I'm not sure about this change. Most of the details are already shown by the UI, making this superfluous. Only certain bonuses really need to be mentioned, because they are either not shown at all or it is hard to tell what type of bonus they are (planetary or ability).
- Farming: The food-increase from Xeno Farm (2) to Intensive Farming (6) is still quite big, while Advanced Xeno Farm (7) adds only a little more. Changing the bonuses to 2/4/6 would make more sense.
- Terraforming still has no QueryGraphicName
- Spin Control Center: The description is a little off. "The SCC will make ships orbiting the home planet of the SCC will appear five times as stronger in our military score." Should be "The SCC will make ships orbiting this planet appear five times stronger in our military score."
- Orbital Terraformer: "* insteatly terraforms all owned planets" should be "* instantly terraforms all owned planets"
- Omega Defense System: "* 100% HP for ships build on planet" should be "* 100% HP for ships orbiting this planet"
- Eyes of the Universe: "* 10 sector increase of sensors" isn't quite correct. The EotU increases the Sensor ability by 10, yes, but it also increases the sensor range by an additional 20%.
- Artificial Slave Center: "* ~22% military production on all planets" is not correct. The ASC increases the total military production (base + all bonuses) on all planets by 50%.
- Hyperion Shrinker: "Why develop a new gun what you can bring two, right?" should be "Why develop a new gun when you can bring two, right?"
- Temple of Evil/Righteousness/Neutrality are still bugged. Temple of Evil should use MaxAlignment of 35 (40 is Neutral). Temple of Righteousness should use MinAlignment of 66 (60 is still Neutral). Temple of Neutrality should use MinAlignment of 36 and MaxAlignment of 65.
- Hall of Empathy: "* Doubled change other civs surrender to you" should be "* Doubled chance that other civs will surrender to you"
- Pain Amplifier: "* 20% manufacturing on planet" should be "* 20% research on planet"
- Wretched Harvester: "while also increasing morale by." The "by" should be removed.
- Space Cannon: "The space canon" should be "The space cannon".
- Stellar Forge: "The Stellar Forge the Arcean's crowning achievement." should be "The Stellar Forge is the Arcean's crowning achievement." The rest of the description only mentions the bonus to HP, but not the bonus to damage and defense for ships built on this planet.
- Technology Matrix L1: The description doesn't mention the maintenance cost.
- Manufacturing Matrix L1: The description doesn't mention the maintenance cost.

UPIssues.xml
- Welfare01 - Welfare03: HowAIWouldVote is still 5 (vote for enemy or random person) even though it is a Yes/No question. Should be 2.

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Altern - I'm attempting to run your APT mod, but after following the instructions you provide, placing the (unzipped) APT12 folder in the MOD folder, the game doesn't see it, though the pathname for "current mods directory" in the game matches where APT12 is located.

I first removed customizations as directed.

When I go to the OPTIONS screen, I tick "use mods" and then the CHANGE button, but nothing appears in the box for me to select. BTW, also in the MODS folder (along with APT12) is the DEFAULT folder and an EXAMPLE folder.

I tried moving the APT12 folder into the DEFAULT folder, since that is where the default full pathname points, but still nothing appears where any mods would normally be listed.

I am unable to type in anything (to change the path) when the "browse directories" window opens. This seems strange since browsing normally allows one to enter any desired pathname. Nor can I type anything to alter the default pathname for mods shown when the OPTIONS screen is open.

Do you have any suggestions?

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MarvinKosh

Join Date 08/2005

+87

You do have to unzip it, actually. Well, rather, you need to move the folder containing the mod into the mod folder, it amounts to teh same thing. The game won't read ZIP folders, sucks I know.

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I found that in the TWILIGHT folder there was no MODS folder. I made a MODS folder and put APT12 into it and it works.

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Thanks again.

- new descriptions: I'm not sure about this change. Most of the details are already shown by the UI, making this superfluous. Only certain bonuses really need to be mentioned, because they are either not shown at all or it is hard to tell what type of bonus they are (planetary or ability).

I like consistency so I either mention all properties or none.

- Farming: The food-increase from Xeno Farm (2) to Intensive Farming (6) is still quite big, while Advanced Xeno Farm (7) adds only a little more. Changing the bonuses to 2/4/6 would make more sense.
I'll do this in my new mod. APT1.2 was a straight fix and 2/6/7 while stupid is not broken.

- Terraforming still has no QueryGraphicName
Can't find one either. I'm ok with it.

- Spin Control Center: The description is a little off. "The SCC will make ships orbiting the home planet of the SCC will appear five times as stronger in our military score." Should be "The SCC will make ships orbiting this planet appear five times stronger in our military score."
I'll fix this.

- Orbital Terraformer: "* insteatly terraforms all owned planets" should be "* instantly terraforms all owned planets"
I'll fix this.

- Omega Defense System: "* 100% HP for ships build on planet" should be "* 100% HP for ships orbiting this planet"
I'll fix this.

- Eyes of the Universe: "* 10 sector increase of sensors" isn't quite correct. The EotU increases the Sensor ability by 10, yes, but it also increases the sensor range by an additional 20%.
Didn't know this, I'll incliude it.

- Artificial Slave Center: "* ~22% military production on all planets" is not correct. The ASC increases the total military production (base + all bonuses) on all planets by 50%.
Aha. It came out as about 22% in my test game.

- Hyperion Shrinker: "Why develop a new gun what you can bring two, right?" should be "Why develop a new gun when you can bring two, right?"
I'll fix this.

- Temple of Evil/Righteousness/Neutrality are still bugged. Temple of Evil should use MaxAlignment of 35 (40 is Neutral). Temple of Righteousness should use MinAlignment of 66 (60 is still Neutral). Temple of Neutrality should use MinAlignment of 36 and MaxAlignment of 65.

I didn't get this one first time around. Must have misread.

- Hall of Empathy: "* Doubled change other civs surrender to you" should be "* Doubled chance that other civs will surrender to you"
I'll fix this.

- Pain Amplifier: "* 20% manufacturing on planet" should be "* 20% research on planet"
I'll fix this.

- Wretched Harvester: "while also increasing morale by." The "by" should be removed.
I'll fix this.

- Space Cannon: "The space canon" should be "The space cannon".
I'll fix this.

- Stellar Forge: "The Stellar Forge the Arcean's crowning achievement." should be "The Stellar Forge is the Arcean's crowning achievement." The rest of the description only mentions the bonus to HP, but not the bonus to damage and defense for ships built on this planet.
- Technology Matrix L1: The description doesn't mention the maintenance cost.
I'll fix this.

- Manufacturing Matrix L1: The description doesn't mention the maintenance cost.
I'll fix this.

UPIssues.xml
- Welfare01 - Welfare03: HowAIWouldVote is still 5 (vote for enemy or random person) even though it is a Yes/No question. Should be 2.
Yeah I checked this out and I don't know doesn't it mean that the AI votes yes if the richest civ is an enemy and doesn't care otherwise?

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Quoting MabusAltarn,

reply 42

Okay.

Quoting MabusAltarn,

reply 42

Gaah, you're right. No idea where I got those numbers from, but the ones in the file and the modding guide aren't quite right either. Evil goes from 0-39, Neutral from 40-60 and Good is from 61-100. I guess you could leave the Temple of Evil and the Temple of Righteousness as is, but the Temple of Neutrality needs to be fixed. It uses MinAlignment 60, just like the Temple of Righteousness, which is completely wrong in this case.

Quoting MabusAltarn,

reply 42

No, it only really works, if the name of another race is among the valid choices. This isn't the case here.

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Ah, cheers.

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I've been playing the 1.2 version of your mod. Also, I am a noob.

The Tor Confederation seems, like, unstoppable. I mean, seriously, take your eyes off them for five minutes and they've blobbed out over the whole galaxy. Do they do this in vanilla? (Playing on Tough difficulty.)

Otherwise, your mod seems to work very well. It certainly makes for challenging games. Many thanks.

If you're taking requests: could you provide some better flavor text for Particle Beams? The current text seems kind of... incomplete.

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qrtxian

Join Date 03/2010

+30

Quoting eatatree,

reply 45

Do they do this in vanilla?

Yes, though to a lesser extent as they're held back by the crippled AI personality 10. The Super Breeder SA is very well suited to expanding like crazy.

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Glad to hear it

Quoting eatatree,

reply 45

I've been playing the 1.2 version of your mod. Also, I am a noob.

The Tor Confederation seems, like, unstoppable. I mean, seriously, take your eyes off them for five minutes and they've blobbed out over the whole galaxy. Do they do this in vanilla? (Playing on Tough difficulty.)

Otherwise, your mod seems to work very well. It certainly makes for challenging games. Many thanks.

If you're taking requests: could you provide some better flavor text for Particle Beams? The current text seems kind of... incomplete.

Yep, their AI was holding them back big time.

I'll have a look at Particle Beams, thanks

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I don't know if it is dependable on mods, but AI doesn't seem to be building ships larger than middle size.

they just stack tons of middle ships and that is it. So as soon as I research large hulls and build a couple of destroyers that is it: I steamroll the galaxy.

What causes this? Or is there something wrong with me?

Using latest version of the mod.

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Strange. There's really no reason it should skip over larger hulls. Its probably getting stuck on a between tech.

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MarvinKosh

Join Date 08/2005

+87

Yeah that's usually what it is. It's why, when I was writing my mod I made a point of creating a single trunk in the tech tree that includes most of the hull techs.

Granted, the AI can still get sidetracked, but in the process of researching bigger and better stuff it will always have to include bigger ships. And since improved research buildings are also in the main trunk, it means that the AI will never be in a position where it lacks the research infrastructure to proceed up the main trunk.

That is, until you start invading and you steal or demolish all that infrastructure.

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APT2.0 is done and available for download. APT2 is a totally different mod than APT1 so be sure to read what it does. APT2 is NOT a pure fix mod.

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