that would also prevent anyone from having their actual rating. in one sense though, ratings are quite fair, since:

everyone's stuff can get rated
anyone can only give something one rating
the ratings count equally

wise old man, adni, others:
do you feel it's wrong to give ones or other low ratings? i'd really like to know your opinion on this... do you feel it's empirically wrong to give low ratings?

I have no issues with low ratings in and of themselves. That's assuming that there is a justifiable reason for the person giving it a low rating. As many have pointed out before, there are ratings at most, if not all the skin sites. The issue I've always had with the sytem at WC is that a low rating could make a skin virtually invisible, because skins with low ratings are hidden by default.

On the other hand, there are people that abuse the system for obviously no reason by giving low ratings for work that does not deserve to be rated low. People can and will argue that if the person thought it deserved a low rating then it's ok, because the rating system is subjective.

I stayed out of this thread because I know that once again, virtually nothing will be done, just like in the past.

I now accept the fact that this site is in the process of "devolving" (?) from a community site into a commercial site. On a commercial site such as this, the users pay to download and rate skins. They money they pay does not afford them the privilege of shaping any sort of policies or general direction for the site.

Any way that we can get the title "Customer" added to the choices in edit preferences?

migellito: No I do not feel that you shouldn't give a rating of "1". But to have someone go and rate a bunch of walls or windowblinds a "1" then something is wrong. I don't thing it was done for the right reasons. I also think that it should be manditory to give a comment with the rating. That way the skinner would know what was wrong(if anything) and can correct the problem. If the skin works and is complete, it should not be given a "1" because you do not like the color.

My guess is ratings can prevent works to be displayed if they got a low rating. I have no problems with low ratings, but then I would want to know why and want to have objective comments how to alter the work and make it better, so it can be displayed. That's the only thing that counts for me if it comes to ratings Migellito. Anyone that gives a low rating without giving comment...well...that's a bit frustrating at the least and I treat them as non-rated (although the rate is effected, hence the frustration). Whether it is a visitor or an admin or pro-skinner that gave the rating....If we would live in a perfect world ratings and comments could be fair, but alas, we do not live in one, nor is this community perfect. Everyone can abuse systems, or vote on emotional grounds. Perhaps a rating should appear after a work is rated 10 times or so..People still can abuse it by submitting 10 times a 1 though Generally ratings and downloads will measure the popularity of a work, in my opinion it doesnt say much about quality which seems to be the argument of having rates and download countings.

Lecrayon: A person can only rate an object once. So if you had 10 ones, that would mean 10 people rated you.(that should tell you it stinks). As T-Man said, some people could upload crap and it would download in the 1000's. So thats not a measure either.

P.S. Have you noticed that some skins are uploaded with flaws and are downloaded even after it is pointed out in the comment section? It is still rated high even thou it is flawed. Makes you wonder!

Jafo, i have no problems with obscure, erooneous, badly comments. There's poepople that likes my skins, and i agree their support, and there's peopple that don't like nothing in their life I prefer some comment (good or bad), not the ignorance

Well wise old man, if that is the case, maybe that could be implemented then because it can't be abused in that way

Or at least think about something similar. As I stated in the comment above yours: Generally ratings and downloads will measure the popularity of a work, in my opinion it doesnt say much about quality which seems to be the argument of having rates and download countings.

Hi migellito
I think the worst thing, someone can do, is to put a rate 1-3 to some author's work.
As I said above, the healthy persons never vote what they don't like, because they know well, that a bad vote is going to hurt the non profit authors.
It is a hobby of some nice people that they share their works with us, why do we have to hurt them??? And make their works invisible for the visitors? Please, give me one reason.

About the wallpapers, is even worst and offending too, because the wallpapers before appear in WinCustomize have been checked and approved by excellent artist as the WC Administrators. Have you thought this?

My opinion is that any vote lower than 4 is malicious or is coming from brainless people!

Good point Adni ...How would you feel if I would give you some hints on your work, where I think you could improve. I am just a non profit author...Hypotheically question, but very curious how you deal with positive criticism from non-established people

Thank you Lecrayon
I appreciate any comment, criticism or hint, but I don't appreciate at all the anonymous and without any comment bad rattings.
Even the dull and ignorant, they too have something to teach us!

/me wonders if everyone that advocates 'forced comments with a rating' if they actually comment every time they give a rating?

Well T-Man, there is a good point about forced comments, particularly poor ratings. If someone doesn't like a wall or skin and wants to rate it poorly, surely it's reasonable for the author to have some idea why. OTH, forced comments doesn't stop someone from rating a skin as 1 and commenting "it sucks", does it?

Aside - I cannot figure out how y'all get the coloured print. Is there an icon for pouting?

/me still thinks this thread will never reach a satifactory conclusion - too many opinions

the joy of produceing art alone should surfice. but being creative people recongnition seems to carry a heavy weight!
I like every thing at this site some a whole lot more the others. to bad some one or some thing is makeing every one so un happy. any time people are createing its a good thing to be nutured not played with dont let the situation bring you down

Objectively speaking T-man, what is the true idea behind ratings..Is it the popularity? I understand popular skins attract visitors and that's where you can commercialize other peoples work. I wouldn't mind if I were a payed skinner. But since I like to share what I create it is a bit sour getting a 3 so that it will not be displayed (or was that a bug too). ROFL
I have to agree with Paxx's thought about criteria for rating. In galleries you are able (if you are qualified) to see whether a work is done poorly or with good technique. You will know, even if it's not your own taste. You will still give it a good mark because you know. If it is bad you will be able to tell why. The same goes for WC, I hope. If it's poor, you tell how to make it better. If it is good, you say it is good, but maybe improve here and there..That's how I see it. That's how people can grow. Just rating doesn't say a thing, and again, to me it is about popularity. Can this community get better? Yes, I think so, but it can't if people just push buttons, download and delete.

snarph: Do you mean neutered nurtured?

Aaaah, I have to correct myself about the displaying. You can edit your account and choose displaying ratings with 1 and higher...

"I think the worst thing, someone can do, is to put a rate 1-3 to some author's work."
by Master adni18 - 7/3/2002 2:24:17 PM

Adni, are you saying that you never rated anyone's work this low?

I once rated one of treetog's WB skins a '2'....not because it 'derserved' a '2', but because, to treetog's standards of skinning prowess it didn't 'deserve' a '10', which was where it was at. The '10' appeared in this case to be more of a 'it's treetog's...it's gotta be a 10, then'.....my input pushed him down to a '8' or '9', which was more 'appropriate' as, in treetog's high standards, it wasn't his 'best'.

This sort of thing can be a legitimate reason for 'strangely' odd ratings being applied by an individual.

However, if it were possible to actually 'know' who rated what to whom.....I'm willing to bet that there'd be a lot of back-stepping to justify ratings of others' works....

I've also kicked in a fair few '10's to 'repair' some decidedly odd scores obviously done with a degree of malicious intent.

It is specifically our direct responsibility to NOT abuse the system for nefarious reasons. We pride ourselves on being mature and responsible, and I hope we all can sleep well in the knowledge that we in no way are being hypocritical.....you can fool some of the people some of the time....etc....

ok.. above i asked 'do you feel it's empirically wrong to give low ratings?'

most said no, only if it's done maliciously. i think this is far rarer than most may think. i'd bet the vast majority of ratings are given honestly. see a skin you thought was neat, but it was rated low? maybe so. somebody found something wrong with it, that perhaps you overlooked. it happens

some said yes, low ratings should never be given. i see this as blatently dishonest. as jafo says above, it is our responsibility to not abuse the system. i feel this includes lying about your true evaluation of a piece, merely to avoid denting someone's ego. an artist must.. must be able to handle criticism. and yes, even without a comment, it's a valid criticism. this all brings me to several points:

:: ratings are not for the authors' benefit. comments are.
:: many are taking ratings waaaay too personally.
:: the 'tweaking' jafo speaks of above is his responsibility as an admin. don't try this at home

some pieces of mine that i feel represent my best work got some of my worst grades. they're hanging in my home, and the homes of others right now. but i didn't go back to the class and complain about the bad grade

on ratings in general:: accept it, it's most likely a completely fair and accurate assessment. don't worry about it. if you like, read the comments and use them to help you grow in your art. best advice? grow in your art the same way other artists do.. experience the world, and practice

maybe that was spayed

Criticism without saying why isn't a valid one...It's just because of the consequences, because there will likely a debate about it. When I exhibit work and someone says : "It sucks" I shrug my shoulders...If someone says "wow brilliant" I do the same.

It's certainly neither fair nor accurate, but I accept it. I'll never like them and will never lose a chance to say it every time the opportunity will be given.

So accept that too, although you may not like it either.