How to beat 4 vicious AI teamed together using TEC.

4 Vicious AIs if you are alone is impossible to kill unless you make a custom map and funnel them so that they cannot join forces. Otherwise sheer numbers will overwhelm you. 

I did beat 3 vicious on random map but that was as VL and I ate all but my home planet and that was in rebelion 1.3

On another hand If there are 2 of you it is totally doable with selective maps meaning that you have room to expand and some good choke points 

We made a good map with a 1 planet entry point. I am just curious, if we managed to whole off their attacking fleet. How do we demolished the AI's fleet effectively? I could use brute force i.e go all kodiak and cap ship and rebuild what is destroyed and keep repeating until AI's dead. But is there a better way to do it? Is there a fleet composition which is effective against AI?

Thanks for your reply!

Personally, I've found that a 50/50 split of Fighters/Bombers is usually effective against the AI, as long as you build Flak to back up your anti-fighter force.  30 should cover it.  Also, around 30 Kodiaks would be a lot more valuable.  (Cut out 10-20 light carriers if you need to.) 

If you want to beat the max number of Ai(1 vs 9 or 2 vs 8), and they are all allied, good luck to you.  Your best bet is both TEC loyalist, find a couple REALLY good choke points, and dump everything you possibly can muster into fortifying there.  If you make it to max fleet supply levels and no more than 2, or maybe 3 fleets come into one point, you might just make it.

I've personally never done this.  I hate the way the higher difficulties cheat on income to such a massive degree.  But this is definitely the way I would attempt it.

-Twi

Thanks for the suggestion Twilight_Storm!

Should I consider building any cielo or other frigates? Or just carrier, kodiaks, flak and repair bots.

What you have to do is hole up then build titans and caps while he is suicide on your defences. LVL yopur caps to lvl 10 and develop eco + do necessary research. When you have your caps and tit lvled up preety much anything you do will kill it. 

As defending AI will always attack structure that was build first so build sb first then turrets repair and hangars

Celio is a must since they will bring titans in and cellio 40% ability is best when you FF

Personally, I love Cielos, but don't bother building them in mass.  At the end of the game when fleet supply is maxed out, I generally never do more than 12-24, depending on whether I feel the fleet could be used better elsewhere in that particular fight.  I generally go the same numbers on hoshikos, usually trying to keep 6 more hoshikos than Cielos.

As for the others, it's really up to yous strategy.  Generally 1/4 to 1/3 of my end-game fleet is Javelis.  (Number of ships, not supply spent).  30 Kodiaks, Light Carriers, Flak, and Cobalts with Sabotage Reactors researched.  Unless I feel that I absolutely need to drop the enmy planets quick, I never do Siege Frigates, and never more than 12 if I bother at all.  I like to get my bombing damage out of Capitol Ships instead. 

In that regard, my only real strategy is Akkan first, 2 Sovas, then whatever looks like it will help the most against the enemy I'm currently fighting.  Vs the AI, there's not really a reason to not go capitol ship heavy and max out at 16, since they generally go for mass caps as well, and thus won't insta-pop them with frigates.

If you have a map with just 1 choke point, and you're both TEC Loyalists, I wuld recomend speccing out your Titans for 2 different purposes.  While the Ankylon is definitely designed for a fleet support role, it can be made into a damage dealer by spending its points in the Weapon Damage and Antimatter booting ability, and choosing to level its AoE whenever possible.  Whoever specs that will be directly on the offensive(Not that you won't both be fighting for your lives vs that many vicious).  The Second should spend points in the AM Ability, Weapon Damage, and Group Shield.  If you find you can't level one of these up when gaining a level, go for hull reinforcement, and both builds will definitely benefit from at least 1 level of its self-rapair ability(I forget what it's called.)  I haven't really used its level 6 enough to give a recomendation.

-Twi

EDIT:  I forgot to mention the Corsev.  Lately, It's been taking the place of my second Sova early on due to its ability to steal enemy ships.  I freakin love these things, but usually end up with only 2 of the 14 caps you're allowed if you build a Titan.  (And why wouldn't you?)

This....that's your strategy against any cheating AI you can't overcome with brute force...

My cap selection would be this:

1)  Start with Akkan...the colonize ability is nice, ion bolt is a must for interrupting cap abilities, and your level 6 (armistice) is an absolute livesaver (note that two level 8 akkans can pretty much armistice indefinitely)...

2)  Get a Marza...having a level 6 marza (missile barrage) is basically your ace card...so long as you have the right stuff to counter SC (flak, corvettes, and/or fighters), missile barrage can handle all the frigates...no other capital ship is going to be as instrumental to quickly wiping fleets as this one will be...

3)  Get another Marza...seriously...2 instances of missile barrage and it's basically game over for the AI...

Against humans, you'd be much better off diversifying and having a sova (for embargo) or a dunov (for EMP)....but this is the AI, embargo ain't going to do anything against them and they aren't going to be using abilities as well as a human is (so EMP and magnetize aren't as important)....you need ace cards that can be abused (cause the AI likely won't interrupt missile barrage)...

1 akkan and 2 marzas (all above level 6) puts you in a really good spot...if you bomber spam (which you always should against the AI), you shouldn't have too much trouble sniping any titans, caps, or SBs, so honestly I wouldn't advocate getting a dunov with EMP...a level 6 sova (which can help spam ships super fast) or multiple kols with flak burst are really going to be much more to your benefit...

I personally wouldn't even bother with a Corsev...if you have missile barrage, you don't need anymore AoEs...

Ultimately, you want a setup including this:

1. At least one akkan for armistice and ion bolt
2. At least one marza (ideally 2) for missile barrage
3. At least one sova for rapid manufacturing
4. Multiple Kols for Flak burst

If you get all those ships to high level, then you can start adding in a 2nd akkan (for safety) or dunovs....

HEHE when AI gets free cap lvling to lvl 6 and all other perks this is how you have to play if you want to win against 2 or more vicious AIs. You have to exploit weaknesses otherwise u get overwhelmed by brute force that is used against you. Vicious AI gets research before it is actually researched.... only actual purchase needed. Faster build times etc....

As for 2 marzaas yes dual MB is great but you have to be able to keep them alive and be able to LVL them to LVL 6 and for that u need fighter cover ...... 

I disagree with that statement. They changed build priorities for AIs so they tend to build a lot of HC and Carriers now. If AI has fleet supply and build options it will actually adapt to fleet composition you have, And at least when I play them they tend to interrupt my missile barrage quite often. Not that 1 kills anything any more anyway. By the time I get it to LVL 6 AI has full hull shield and armour already researched. 

That's why you need 2 instances of it, as 1 isn't enough (and you are hosed if it does happen to get interrupted)....still though, 1 does pretty damn good even against HCs, and any other firepower you have (which should be bombers) is going to clean up stragglers pretty fast...

There is absolutely no fleet combination that will get you remotely close to winning this scenario in a fair fight.  Even with defenses maxed out at a choke point and full fleet, 4 AI's at this level are going to completely overwhelm you.  As VL you might be able to go mobile and slowly strip out the entire map while they chase you, but as TEC, you will get crushed.

To win this scenario, you are going to have to make it an unfair fight.  Make a 2 star map with all the AI's in one system and you in the other.  Colonize your system and then build 5 starbases at the star.  Max out the strikecraft squads on each stabase - this should give you 70 squads.  Then build 70 carriers and pack them at the star to bring your total strikecraft count to over 200.  Finally, build your titan, 12 Marza's, 2 Akkan's, and a bunch of LRF and pack them at the star as well.

This takes advantage of the fact that the AI doesn't fight at stars - it only tries to pass through them.  The shooting gallery that ensues will quickly level your titan and capitals to level 10.  Once you get everything leveled, get rid of the LRF and build flak in their place (to counter fighters) and go on the attack.  Use the Marza's to decimate the enemy fleets, bombers to kill titans an starbases, and fighters and flak to clear the sky.  And if for some reason you get into trouble, the 2 Akkans' Armistice ability gives you a nearly unlimited get out of jail free card.

(Wow, that sounded really good.  Now I'm going to have to go home and see if it actually works.)

As mentioned above I did kill 3 AIs with keeping HW and strip everything else on 10 player random map just to give me some breathing space. It was back in 1.3 mwhen strip was OP

vs ai.....

first ship usually an Akkan for colonize bonus or a carrier for combat, since carrier < all for combat.

end fleet ends up something like

Capital ships, 3 kol as Dedicated Anti fighter/bomber/meatshields, 2 dunov for shield transfer, 2 akkan uplink/Armistice  and 6 sova

10 repair bots, 10 cleo  and 150+ carriers(5% fighters, 95% bomber)

put them all on movement none in fleet managment, right click auto attack off cleos and Repair bots.

Jump your kols in first then fleet the AI has a crazy habbit of attacking the first thing it sees

keep your fleet out of combat, select bombers Target a ship with your bombers, usually 1 bomber pass kills anything (often before normal combat ships could even reach it) bombers carry on doing damage if your ships get cc'ed   they even carry on doing damage for a fair while after there host has died!

Your 6x sovas will be dropping missile platforms which for some reason the AI love to target before your fleet, if your bombers die tap your rapid manufacturing...

past about 100 bombers you just can't stop them with flak/fighters, you can simply outbuild any AA

as mentioned above pop Armistice if you get into trouble, 2x Armistice and your back to full bomber capacity, or able to leave heavy fights with no loss's and a few bomber run kills.

....

 bump

yea just....

...

missile barrage does crazy damage.

haven't bothered with the Marza in so long...

im sure this has been changed since I last looked at it!

2 of these can kill 100 Kodiak's.... in under 20 seconds!

Here's a quick question unworthy of its own thread:

Does the Kol's Flak Burst target corvettes?  Not going to be super-effective, I know, but every bit counts.

-Twi

I haven't tested myself but i was told it does

    numObjects 2
    object "Fighter"
    object "Corvette"

Awesome, thanks guys.

-Twi

Thanks guys for the brilliant suggestion!

Both of us (1 tec loyalist, 1 vasari rebel), managed to hold off 4 vicious AI's attack! I build 4 star base with red button upgraded at the star planet. I explode them as they come through. Although they jumped in with 2 titans, we managed to kill them.

However, we are still struggling to launch an attack on them, just after the star planet is a astroid they hold(tii many ships in there).

I will try out your suggestion selcuccia! I hated akkan(I always only have 1 whole game), I thought its useless other than colonisation. But i will give armistice a try.

What I have right now: 1 titan, 1 sova, 1 kol, 1 maza.

What ability should i get for tec loyalist titan. I read i should pump in disruptive matrix. But I like fortified structure and gunner + group shield and furious defense. I don't know what to get now since I don't use disruptive matrix. Now I have to choose it I am not sure what to give up...

Btw what is AOE?

That is the hard part. This is why I avoid these kind of games, no matter how good you are, its going to be a long slaughter fest over every single planet until 12 hours later you might eventually over power the AI's economic advantage by simply having more planets. It's space's equivalent to World War I trench warfare, which while facinating is just horrific to those that have to fight it, and isn't particularly interesting for the player.

First, you'll want a Dunov or two to deal with enemy titans. EMP will drain their antimatter, and they're also useful for keeping your caps and titan high on shields and antimatter. Frigates are expendable, but you'll need to keep your titan and caps alive so they'll keep getting levels.

After that, you'll want mostly Marza's so that you can exploit...

Area of Effect. Attacks that can damage multiple units. You've already been aquainted with one of the most powerful, red button. But the Marza's missile barrage is the only great mobile AoE that is available to the TEC loyalists. Get your level 6 marza in the middle of a fleet and let the missiles fly. Even better, let two level 6 marza's do that. The AI won't realize it needs to move out until its two late. I'd say also start with two Marza's but only have one on the battlefield until it gets to level 6, then bring in the second one. As your capitalships hit level 10 (and thus no longer take up XP), build a new marza. Eventually you'll have so such AoE power that the huge number of enemy frigates won't matter.

If other guy is VR then you have easy job.

Research phase jump on orkies mines spamm carriers and enjoy rape. After you jump in with orky and titans send mine layers in and make a mine field on edge if in trouble just retreat trough it and ai will be happy to suicide on it,

You can also use overseers to keep your caps titans and orkies alive Just make them hold position and turn auto attack off. Then manually move them behind your heavy duty fleet ( orky titans and caps ). Enjoy if you have enough you shouldn't loose high value ship.

Against bombers I suggest 3 or 4 kortuls which manually use jam weapon ability to disable them. Side effect is that their titans and cap wont have AM if you get am drain on them

You do have a problem with tec loyal titan. While hard to kill and good for protection of your fleet disruption matrix and tit weapons alone cannot kill anything including and above cap ship lvl. But look on the bright side that is why ur ally is vasari with insane phase missiles....

NIce advise here! Yeah I am trying to figure out what is best for tec loyalist titan... I think only the titan and marza have AOE abilities.. But I really appreciate reading all of your experience here.

It wont really do much but if you can scout where ais factories are u can novalith those planets and with a bit of luck he wont have any colonizers available and when you nova all factory planets and AI has no colonizers.... Congrats you just won your game.

TEC loyalist really is turtle race and online their corvettes make good snipe high value target fleet. But other than that and cheap novas they don't have much going for them. Well pervasive econ is great but rebels have that too.

Just to let everyone know. I followed some suggestions from above. And now I have successfully and easily demolished the 4 vicious AIs fleet at the astroid! Marza's MB is definitely very effective against AI. I have yet to need to use the armistice once, but its a good thing to have. I can start considering playing against 5 ais now! Thanks everyone!