Vasari Starbases brake multiplayer?

Thoughts and opinions

from Sins Forums

Okey so yesterday I was trying out rebellion multiplayer started a game of 2v2v2v2 everything went well and was fairly balanced I'd say for the first 30-40 mins but after that things got uneven. teams were Team 1 (my team) me TEC Loyalist + TEC Rebel Team 2 Both were Vasari Rebels Team 3 Asari Loyalist + Rebel Team 4 Tec Rebel + Vasari Loyalist.

At this point my team had gotten a titan each I had gotten 2 cap ships and some shriken corvette's and he had 1 cap ship and lots of flaks. At this point we were mostly trying to poke out what the enemies had when Team 2 warped in with 2 Kortul Devastator and a few flaks and we went AHA easy kills let's get them! So we charge in, then all of a sudden an Orkulus warps in,

We still thought we could win but we pretty much get's our asses handed to us so we fall back he follows squashes us a bit but then falls back. Eventually we build up a bit better fleet me getting some upgrades gettin one of each capital ship and an extra Kol Battleship + 20 shriken corvette's and 10 Kodiax Heavy Cruiser my team mate builds another Kol and a bunch of frigates around 50 mixed of them mostly flaks.

 We roam a bit lvling our capitals to lvl 4 all of them and our titans to lvl 2 when we manage to get one of Team 2's Orkulus alone we lose all our frigate's and cruisers my team mate loses both his capitals I lose 1 kol and get the rest away at 10% hull and both our titans get's pushed through their shields down to 20% hull when we manage to destroy the lone base.

We later manage to attack a Team 2 system at the same time as Team 3 haveing 4 titans + 4 fleet's fighting from two sides against 2 Orkulus bases and both our team and Team 3 has to retreat from this or we would have lost all our fleet's.

Now all of this happend around 40 mins - 1 hour 30 mins into the game and my thought is that the Orkulus starbase with it's ability to move to different planet's is a bit to Overpowered or the Titan is to underpowered atleast early on compared to a Star base.

Im not gonna write up and compare all stats but looking at cost getting a fully upgraded Star base like they had costs Credit 21600 Metal 2500 Crystal 2375, Since they also need 4 more research stations compared to a titan I'll add that aswell Credit 3000 Metal 240 Crystal 320.

This Makes for a fully upgraded starbase with traveling ability for a total cost of Credit 24600 Metal 2740 Crystal 2695

TEC titan cost Credit 17700 Metal 2315 Crystal 2100 (This is calculated with the bare minimum costs of ship supply and command, Yes I do count in that you buy the first free cap ship if not the price is a little cheaper)

Now to make a rough estimate on the fleet costs and loses in our two fleets against a single star base

Team 2 Star Base             Team 1 Fleet

Credit 24600   -    102400 =  (35400 Titan cost + 42000 Capital ship cost + 25000 Rough mixed fleet cost)

Metal 2740      -      17430 = ( 4630 + 2800 + 10000)

Crystal 2695    -     8450 =  ( 4200   + 1750 + 2500)

 

Loses

Team 2                    Team 1

Credit 24600    -     34000

Metal 2740      -    10800

Crystal 2695    -    3000

 

So as you can see our loses were greater and if they had come with two or just with their fleet we would have been wiped out. I also know for a fact we had better armor/hull/weapon/shield research then them with them focuseing on building two starbases fully uppgraded in each system they owned. Still I find the bases to be to overpowered for now compared to how early on you can build them especially when you can use them to assault other players planets.

 

Now how to balance this?

To be honest I dont have any good idea's so far but here are some.

1 Increase the cost of building and/or upgrade costs

2 Buff the overall starting power of titans

3 Give restriction about moveing into enemy space or being in enemy space

4 Add some type of ships to easier counter the bases

 

6,384 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

It is well known that jumping orkies in their current state of affairs are OP and there are many threads on the subject.

Also, it sounds like you tried to take down a starbase with massed flak.  It won't work.  Flak have heavy armor which the Orky's weapons do well against (75%/100%, depending on the weapon used).  Orkies on the other hand have module armor which is only lightly damaged (a measly 35%) by the antiverylight weapons of the flak.

That said, as to your suggestions...

1. Not needed.

2. No.

3. Some advocate this, but it kind of defeats the purpose of the mobility.

4. Bombers, Adjudicators, and Orgovs all hard-counter starbases.

 

The most common suggestions on the forum are either restricting the way they move (perhaps only to allied/friendly culture planets or to those with phase nodes) or restricting the way they get to move (causing Phase Stabilizer Arrays to have a second level which would enable jumping).  I'm personally a bigger fan of the second one.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Orkies are OP, but you really didn't do anything right to counter them. Lets see.

1. You built Kols. Never build them unless you're dealing with a ton of strike craft.

2. So you had 7 capitalships at one time? Probably too many for multiplayer. They the more caps you have together the slower they and your titan will level up. Frigates have much better stats per fleet supply until your caps hit high levels, so they should make up by far most of your fleet (except early game when your starting one is half).

3. Your fleet was far too small for research to have a big effect. The tier 1 stat upgrades can be good, but anything higher than 3 should be avoided until you have quite a large fleet.

 

Against Starbases, bombers are really the best thing to bring in, as you can keep them far away from the starbase and still deal good damage.

Also, was that the same player that had two Orkulus' in one gravity well, or were both of them Vasari Rebels with a starbase each? If the former, that's a bug and it would be great if you could send in a replay.

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top


Okey so yesterday I was trying out rebellion multiplayer started a game of 2v2v2v2 everything went well and was fairly balanced I'd say for the first 30-40 mins but after that things got uneven. teams were Team 1 (my team) me TEC Loyalist + TEC Rebel Team 2 Both were Vasari Rebels Team 3 Asari Loyalist + Rebel Team 4 Tec Rebel + Vasari Loyalist.

At this point my team had gotten a titan each I had gotten 2 cap ships and some shriken corvette's and he had 1 cap ship and lots of flaks. At this point we were mostly trying to poke out what the enemies had when Team 2 warped in with 2 Kortul Devastator and a few flaks and we went AHA easy kills let's get them! So we charge in, then all of a sudden an Orkulus warps in,

We still thought we could win but we pretty much get's our asses handed to us so we fall back he follows squashes us a bit but then falls back. Eventually we build up a bit better fleet me getting some upgrades gettin one of each capital ship and an extra Kol Battleship + 20 shriken corvette's and 10 Kodiax Heavy Cruiser my team mate builds another Kol and a bunch of frigates around 50 mixed of them mostly flaks.

 We roam a bit lvling our capitals to lvl 4 all of them and our titans to lvl 2 when we manage to get one of Team 2's Orkulus alone we lose all our frigate's and cruisers my team mate loses both his capitals I lose 1 kol and get the rest away at 10% hull and both our titans get's pushed through their shields down to 20% hull when we manage to destroy the lone base.

We later manage to attack a Team 2 system at the same time as Team 3 haveing 4 titans + 4 fleet's fighting from two sides against 2 Orkulus bases and both our team and Team 3 has to retreat from this or we would have lost all our fleet's.

Now all of this happend around 40 mins - 1 hour 30 mins into the game and my thought is that the Orkulus starbase with it's ability to move to different planet's is a bit to Overpowered or the Titan is to underpowered atleast early on compared to a Star base.

Im not gonna write up and compare all stats but looking at cost getting a fully upgraded Star base like they had costs Credit 21600 Metal 2500 Crystal 2375, Since they also need 4 more research stations compared to a titan I'll add that aswell Credit 3000 Metal 240 Crystal 320.

This Makes for a fully upgraded starbase with traveling ability for a total cost of Credit 24600 Metal 2740 Crystal 2695

TEC titan cost Credit 17700 Metal 2315 Crystal 2100 (This is calculated with the bare minimum costs of ship supply and command, Yes I do count in that you buy the first free cap ship if not the price is a little cheaper)

Now to make a rough estimate on the fleet costs and loses in our two fleets against a single star base

Team 2 Star Base             Team 1 Fleet

Credit 24600   -    102400 =  (35400 Titan cost + 42000 Capital ship cost + 25000 Rough mixed fleet cost)

Metal 2740      -      17430 = ( 4630 + 2800 + 10000)

Crystal 2695    -     8450 =  ( 4200   + 1750 + 2500)

 

Loses

Team 2                    Team 1

Credit 24600    -     34000

Metal 2740      -    10800

Crystal 2695    -    3000

 

So as you can see our loses were greater and if they had come with two or just with their fleet we would have been wiped out. I also know for a fact we had better armor/hull/weapon/shield research then them with them focuseing on building two starbases fully uppgraded in each system they owned. Still I find the bases to be to overpowered for now compared to how early on you can build them especially when you can use them to assault other players planets.

 

Now how to balance this?

To be honest I dont have any good idea's so far but here are some.

1 Increase the cost of building and/or upgrade costs

2 Buff the overall starting power of titans

3 Give restriction about moveing into enemy space or being in enemy space

4 Add some type of ships to easier counter the bases

 

End of quote

 

I wrote that post on my 2nd account. Sorry for any confusion.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Vasari starbases most definitely do not slow down or halt multiplayer. 

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Well I had my capital ships spread out in three different fleet's actually to be more effective and to not lower the lvling of them or my titan. I did move everything I had into that fight though.


Also on the two starbases it was one starbase for each player in one gravity well.

 

Yes lessoned learned dont bring flaks but bring bombers against the starbase.

 

Atleast in our game I think it halted the multiplayer game since they put two starbases in the places to invade them in and seeing four players with all their ships attacking two other players with two bases and no ships getting facemelted against them means they halt the game atleast a bit.

Not sure what you mean Mecha-Lenin with that you wrote that post with your 2nd account? I wrote all of that from scratch but if you have a similair post up then I most likely missed that since I did'nt check alot of the posts.

Also one this game I got desynked with the game owner everyone got a pop up and then red text apeared saying I was desynked bla bla bla with Owner everything worked fine except for that annoying red text in the middle of the screen would not go away.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

1. not if the following is implemented we shouldnt need to

2. yes i think they are a bit weak and vulnerable to start with until lvl 4

3. i think a phase jump node should be required to jump an orky

4. bombers wtfpwn them already but u need alot of them- at least 35-40 for FU orky (but what dont bombers wtfpwn when they get to critical mass)

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Mecha is troling just ignore his post.