I totally agree w/ Mobius way up there ^

Mr AJCrowley - In your line of work JavaBrain, knowing that your peers frequent this board, that was probably not a good thing to say

/me *snigger*
i dont know JavaBrain well enough to be certain, but i doubt she has much to fear from her colleges.

a while ago a lady was working in the same room as all the (male) programmers at work. so 5 males v 1 female in the converstation.

since these arent the worlds most sophisticated minds, the conversation is normally in the gutter.

over about 2 years, the single female "won" conversations against all of the men about 75% of the time.

remember, programmers tend to have a certain logical mind set and structured way of thinking. this makes them suseptable to a multiproged "female" mentality logical attack

returning vaguely to the topic, i wonder if apple will ever get excided about all the OB themes that seem dedicated to replicating its *look*.

in my line of work feline, right now I only have to deal w/ the dominate males at work one day a week, but I have a set of very very small ear plugs that I pop in when things get out of hand... hehe

Feline....'accounted'...'colleagues' [just re-asserting my position after the 'godess' debacle]...

Doreen....'dominant'...

hey all just an fyi..

you can get into a mac via catalogs at around $800
the lowest price on the latest right from apple is 1299, and it's quite impressive. that's comparable to prices from dell, gateway, etc.
when you get one, you get both os9 and osx. you can choose to install them on separate partitions, the same partition, and even run them concurrently
my 2+ year old 400mhz mac runs osx about as fast as a 1.2gig pc running win xp
the only time i have -ever- restarted my machine since installing osx was to move it and for some of the system updates.

of course, you can't currently get 3dmax or autocad for either os9 or osx... in the end, i guess it depends on some of your 'must have' software.

how's everybody doing, by the way?

You're pushing it a little migellito, but it's true that Macs are faster and more expensive. A 400 Mhz Mac is in no way comparable to a 1.2 Ghz PC, but yes, a 800 Mhz G4 is indeed comparable in speed to a 1.2 Ghz P4. Macs are generally 50% faster than PCs. As for your prices, I'll have to disagree. I can get a good 1.8 Ghz P4 for about 1,400$ CA, where the equivalent on a Mac would be a 933 Mhz PPC G4 at 3,700$ CA. Sure those crappy iMacs are cheap now. You can get a 400 Mhz iMac for 1,300$ CA, but I would never buy those piece of crap; besides I can also get a 800 Mhz P3 for about 700$ CA.

Now considering the OS, it's quite simple: it sucks. It keeps freezing and crashing. It's just as bad as Windows ME, for cripes's sake. Every version I have ever worked with since Mac OS v.6 (or was it 5?, not sure) has always been shaky. And BTW, yes I know what I'm talking about. I'm in charge of fixing people's computer problems at work and we have both PCs and Macs.

actually paxx he might have been pushing it just a bit but a 400mhz g4 mac IS comparible to a 1ghz pc. an 800mhz g4 is comparable to a 1.8ghz p4 and the 1ghz g4 well it can kick around a 2ghz p4. I'm not even going to get into the dual 1ghz in performance. It's all in the architechture of the chip.

Or 'Architecture', Catherine...

And dedicated hardware ofcourse...

Ok, so you get the speed=whatever (not going to debate, because it really doesn't matter)
What about cost versus the cost of an equal PC?
What about actual software available for the OS?

Of course, I really don't like Macs....never did. i had an Apple clone back in the Apple II days, and I didn't like that, either. I keep trying them, and still don't like them. I'm not an MS advocate, either. But, I'll take XP over OSX any day. Of course, i do have a lot of desktop enhancements running right now...I'm not even sure what XP looked like to begin with anymore....

JavaBrain: Apple make superior computers, and that's a fact. I'm sure what you say you don't like about Macs isn't the machine but the OS. I don't like the OS either.
If I was rich enough to buy a good dual 1Ghz G4 and could uninstall the Mac OS and install XP instead, now that would be the dream computer!

(and yes, I know you can run Windows with Virtual PC, but then you loose in performance what you gained with having an Apple computer in the first place)

paxx - i've used both doing the same things, and my imac g3 400 at home did them at about the same speed as the 1ghz [sorry, i said 1.2 earlier] that i had for awhile at work. as far as the os, yes os9 and its predecessors suffered from frequent crashes. such is the life of shared memory. you should try osx though. as i said, in the months that i've had it installed, it has never crashed. not once. others i know using osx get the same performance. and most definitely, the reason i like osx is not because of how it looks, or the perfect smoothness of the gui animation. it's the power it has. the things it does automatically. the way drivers are handled. the choices it gives me for file management. the ease and speed of all software installation and removal [and the completeness of that removal.] the ability to go to a command line and control things i can't control from a dos command line.

as far as software, the ms office suite for x is written far better than the windows version. the only popular titles i can think of which aren't on x yet are autocad, 3dmax, maya and access. maya is on the way, and is shaping up to be far superior to the windows version. the others have comparable counterparts, one of which [filemaker pro] is often preferred to access after people have tried both.

but we have a windows machine too - much of our children's software is win only. unfortunately, it's -still- not online (basically due to the fact that comcast is the embodiment of all evil.)

Oh christ, not a mac versus pc discussion... I think I prefer the religious discussions on DevArt.

By the way, Maya is evil, it crashed my XP.

You mean computers aren't a religion? Hmmm...I think some people will disagree
Yeah, three things not to talk about: religion, politics, and Mac vs. PC (hey, if we are going to debate, though, can I through in OS/2 and Linux?)

File Maker is evil. I hate it with passion. That's what everything runs on here at work. God I wish we had a real database system.

Poor paxx! That's gotta' suck.

I have a client in New York that insists on Filemaker. I have attempted to point out to him the error of his ways on many occasions, pointing out that FMP is at least as bad as Access, if not worse (because at least Access is vaguely exstensible). I think I may have swung him a little towards MySQL, being as it's a solid platform and you can't argue with the price (free).

theres plenty of software available for macs. I don't game as much as I used to so osx is fine but when i do want a game of UT or escape from monkey island it can be easily run in os9.

lol@Jafo the built in wincustomize spell checker

you missed "comperible" though

Yes, Catherine...but you got it right one time out of two...so I ignored it...
However, 'comperible' makes it one out of three...

and one for you too Jafo, don't think the quotes excuse you.