/me laughs at Jafo for missing the "kicking in the open door" bit completely

Or in other words: I know and knew it whilst typing, but could not resist.

/me takes Crae out behind the shelter sheds and beats the living crap out of him for attempting to be clever....

/me continues laughing whilst recovering in the hospital from several broken bones and multiple concussions

*ouch* It hurts if I smile... *ouch*

On art, music, and sport

Craeonics: It seems as though you are now offering two different opinions on what the Olympics should be, rather than just your single previous one? I rather prefer to say that it is both a medal-and-points race AND a showcase for various different types of sport. Yeah. that sounds about right. On judges in Olympic events: doesn't boxing require a jury?

Jafo: I never said anything about not liking rock music, nor have I made any blanket dismissals of all rock being simplistic or terrible compared to all classical. (One can cite the obvious cases of RATT and Motorhead, however). In fact, I quite like Dream Theater because I find their music is a nice distillation of the best of Rush, Motley Crue, Van Halen, Extreme and Metallica. I also have a soft spot for Judas Priest and Rob Halford; also Bruce Dickinson (but not so much Iron Maiden). Finally, in a tribute to Australia, I have no Kylie Minogue recordings, but my AC/DC Back In Black CD has an honored spot on my shelf.

ac4000....but Kylie is a heck of a lot cuter than Bon Scott....and wears shorts better than Angus...

Aye, I'd have Kylie over Angus any day.

And I switch opinion every second, let's call it job deformation. A designer should look at things from all angles and postpone decisions. I've been pushing that practice over the edge a bit.

As for boxing... the only thing the judges do is count hits. And still they mess up! They should automate that and ditch the judges.

i was talking about this same subject just the other night with some friends, and i also feel the only events in the olympics should be those where a definite quantitative winner can be determined. i think the qualitative subjective events should be restricted to exhibition only, not competition [please.. no wagering (letterman.)]

this would include basically all gymnastics, diving, figure skating, ice dancing, ski dancing, cake decorating and synchronized frog twirling.

this, of course, will never happen. tons of people love to see nubile teens flipping around and grabbing each other. it's great marketing

of course, many feel passionately about the competitive spirit of these various endeavors. tonya harding, for example.

however, i think professional shows such as the ice capades and the like are the best venue for these events that are much closer to performance art than to sport. art can still be competitive - incredibly competitive, with vast rewards - but it is in the venue of art, not sport.

i tried really hard to include a tongue in cheek, sarcastic comment about gymnastics and the movie 'gymkata,' but couldn't fit it in.

;]

...which is good, for I haven't seen it, so it wouldn't make sense to me anyway.

Jafo: here is an interview article which doesn't center specifically on just Rock versus Classical, but does put a very interesting light on our little side discussion.

Link

Migellito: Sorry to hear that you equate the more artistic sports with frivolous artifice. "Synchronized frog twirling"? That kind of gross exaggeration doesn't help the debate, even if it does seem funny for a half-second.

Aggg, fercrissake, WTF _are_ the right tags for HTML here!?

Here is the link again:

http://www.dimsum.co.uk/culture/planets.shtml

Figure skating and gymnastics are *real* sports (just ask the 9 year old who spends 17 hours a week training and competing in events until they can get to the Olympics).

Besides timed races, there would be nothing else in the Olympics. Even Hockey has Judgement calls that can effect the outcome.

Plus, those events *can* be judged fairly. Especially the "technical" judging parts.

Of course, the other part is: people *like* those sports, and they have been part of the Olympics, as we know it, forever.

ac4000...i read that...
I tend to enjoy the 'rock-fusion' rendition of classical...call me an inverted snob, but I find it ludicrous that 'classical' music must seem to be played by stuffed shirts in penguin suits in velvet-lined concert hall auditoriums...cheered on by the patting of white gloves in subjegated defference to a composer who 'must' be decomposing to be worthy of an audience.
I grew up with the music of the likes of The Pink Floyd [their correct name] even before Darkside, and being 47 now, have been around listening to, and enjoying the likes of Joplin and Hendrix while they were still alive....
This gives them more social/emotional relevance to me than any amount of Beethoven or Bach.
In the same way, the 'masters' of graphic art...all long-since dead, although admittedly 'talented and capable' have more social relevance to their period than to the youth of today.
As a student of Architecture [been designing the stuff since '72] I have a similar problem with the anal-retentiveness of 'heritage'...as if it is the be-all and end-all of urban culture.
'Heritage' or 'historical significance' finally lost the plot for me a few years ago when it was decided that a 'six-pack' block of flats built in the '50s was 'significant' and was classified [unable to be altered or demolished in ANY way]. This was the equivalent of declaring that the Gas chambers in Auschwitz were 'significant' and must continue to be fed Jews...[OK, so I exaggerated a tad].

Although it's true to say that 'he who forgets the mistakes of the past is bound to repeat them', it is also important to remember that the past is our PAST, and our grand children's 'distant past'.
It's all about perspective...
A few hundred years from know, I can guarantee the likes of Clapton and Hendrix..[and Floyd] will be referred to as perhaps 'Late Classical', and Beethoven will simply be 'Early Classical'.

I acknowledge the classical musicians have [had] sheer talent and ability, but I see exactly the same traits in 'modern' musicians too [Britney Spears excluded]...

When it comes to our own immediate circle of 'colleagues' in this community, I can see true artistic quality and talent in some which can very easily withstand the scrutiny of comparison with the 'masters'.

And..then there are Bryce Dolphins...the MacDonalds of Art...

Damn...'subjugated'...

/me apologizes for hijacking the thread...but it's an addiction....

Hmm, I think it's probably a generation gap thing.