ALL COMMUNITIES are the SAME

With a wry bit of amusement I've seen Shogot's latest self destruction and the reactions from it about his imagined problems with the skin contest --aka gui olympics --.

There is a silver lining. All successful communities have these problems. They are a natural result of human politics. It doesn't matter if your community is the PTA or church group or in the cyberworld. There are those who are leaders and create things for others. And there are those who are envious, petty and jealous who try to destroy those things. Leadership in community comes from building something or tearing something else down.

From what i gather this shogot person was once a person of some importance. He used to be a builder of things and amassed political capital as a result. Time seems not to have been kind to him. It is far easier for a small petty person to regain their former stature by trying to tear down those they perceive as leaders and movers. By tearing their opponents down they see themselves as rising up.

It never ends well for the tearer down. In time they expend all of their stored political capital. The end results in either ejected from the community or isolation.

The bickering of this skin contest -- gui olympics -- demonstrates that the community has reached critical mass. it is big enough that people care enough to build it up and nurture it. The dark side is that it is also big enough for the petty and envious to do ugly things.
12,530 views 26 replies
Reply #1 Top
Very well said, Hamster! I used to hold Shoggot in such high regard, and now I feel nothing but contempt for the shambling, bitter figure he has become. This is the first time I have expressed my feelings in public, preferring not to lower myself to his level, But his latest outbursts, and his continuing "Stardock is evil" crusade verges on the ridiculous. I have experienced for myself the true face of the men behind Stardock, and I can tell you that it is as far removed from evil as you can get. I consider myself to be an honest upright person, and I can assure you that if these guys were evil, I would have nothing to do with them. But, here I am, and happy to be here.
Shoggot made me a better artist, of that there is no doubt, but when someone embarks on a crusade born of envy and bitterness, I can no longer bring myself to support that person in any way, shape or form.
ALL of Shoggots accusations are unfounded, and I know that Frogboy suffers great anguish when he tries to help the skinning community and immediately gets it thrown back in his face.
I just hope all of this comes to an end soon, and that people realise that just because you are successful, it doesn't mean that everything you do is for personal gain.

Now, Shoggot is bound to arrive here shortly and tell you that I am a Stardock employee, and lots more untruths, but take it from me, I am in the employ of NO-ONE. I just love this site, this community, this skinning thing, this opportunity to create and have some fun!

Let the games begin........
(The GUI Olympics that is...)

Reply #2 Top
The OS/2 market had a community that is very similar to this - eerily similar.

There was (and still is) a guy called "OS2Guy" who hangs out on Usenet and those who do not bow to his demands he demonizes and attacks.

Over time, his claims would become more and more absurd against everyone until he was attacking OS/2 users themselves. In his case, it was about control, about power in a perceived Internet community. When someone else would have a good idea or try something new and it didn't involve OS2 Guy, he would attack it and spread FUD about it.

I would have never thought that Shoggot would be like that. But sometimes people convince themselves that individuals or companies are so awful, so 2-dimensionally "evil" that any act or deed that comes from said individual or company must be bad. If the evil is hard to find, then it just has to be analyzed harder.

Hence, a good person gives money to orphans because they're a good person.

Same person but if thought to be evil giving same money to same orphans is doing it because of the tax break.

And that's what happens to the characters in the communities I've seen (not familiar with PTA or church stuff but certainly in the OS/2 market and now in skinning). Characters see those who don't agree with them or are perceived as rivals as eventually being "evil" and hence all deeds can be disected and translated into having some evil purpose.

Heck, you can see that sort of thing on political news groups - The United States never does anything good according to some.
Reply #3 Top
Great posts guys.

I truly believe that the source of the discontent has very little to do with Stardock/Brad personally. It's much closer to what hamster wrote about shoggot not being in control. It may be that things would have turned out differently in this latest issue if his demands were met about changing the rules. But then again, he would have probably just tried to wrest more control. It seems things always have to be on his terms, and if they are not, he lies in wait to find some way to "discredit" those who he feels are his opposition. But sadly, in reality, all he does is discredit himself....again, and again.
Reply #4 Top
I think there is an underlying source of tension. I can't exactly pinpoint when it started, but I think it was when the eFront thing happened and skinz went down. Before that it seems things were more mellowed.
Reply #5 Top
Actually crae, I think it was just a litle bit after that had started to settle, when Shog was supposed to be an admin here and for some reason got bumped. I've heard on the message board what happenned, but I never heard Shoggot's point of view about it.....might be kinda interesting to know though.
Reply #6 Top
Thanks for pointing to the silver lining, Hampster.
This discussion caught my attention and impressed me. It's nice to take a break from the mud-slinging (amusing at times but counter-productive most of the time) and look at the big picture from a more mature point of view.

Thanks guys!
Reply #7 Top
Shoggot wasn't bumped. He said he didn't have enough free time to be an admin.
Reply #8 Top
Sorry then froggy... seen so many conflicting stories since then, I guess I got them mixed up *s*
Reply #9 Top
That's okay. Currently Shoggot is apparently telling people he was banned from here. Shoggot's posts still exist on the server, it's pretty easy to verify that he was never banned (the term "exiled" would appear as his title).
Reply #10 Top
is it possible that was a mis-understanding of some sort? there have been times I'd press submit and the page would reload without the message.
Reply #11 Top
to people like this shog, every bump in life is an intentional slight against him by the world it seems.
Reply #12 Top
I believe that wouldn't be too far-fetched, JayG.

If every bump in life isn't an intentional slight against oneself.............

then no one would be at fault, right?

something like that.
Reply #13 Top
If you exile Shoggot you help make his point.Its best to let him be. The best or worst thing you could do is don't respond to his messages. That would be the ultimate humiliation. People like this exist in every walk of life. They try to stir up the pot in the hopes of bringing everyone else down in the so as to elevating themselves.
Reply #15 Top
At this point, I don't really thing Shoggot is an issue anymore. He's pretty much exhausted what influence he may have had.

Now he's just a rather loud user who doesn't make skins. Doesn't write software, and doesn't even administer a major skinning site. He's just a guy with strong opinions. There's zillions of people like that.

The people who drive a "community" are the ones who contribute to it in a positive way. Positive people are the ones who get things done. And other positive people tend to be attracted to them and a positive feedback loop is developed.

I actually had a user email me accusing me of being Shoggot. He thought I was using this alias called Shoggot to go around and so discredit the "anti-Stardock" crowd by being so ridiculous (that wasn't the word he used but this is nicer) as to solidy our hold. This person was obviously not pro-Brad or pro-Stardock, he really thought *I* was Shoggot and using him to manipulate things my way.

Reply #17 Top
A-ha!

By posting this it just proves that you really are Shoggot! The the lengths that you go to, to further your dark plots are truly amazing.

I didn't know that frogs were that devious.
They weren't in the Frog and Toad books.
Reply #18 Top
/me knew he'd be discoverd at some point..
Reply #19 Top
since this has officially been admited, then obviously the real evil ploy to achieve world domination is MUCH deeper!

i suspect therefor that Frogboy is actually *every* other user here, except for me of course. why else the need for the increadible typing speed?

this is just one massive great exercise in manipulating poor inocents who dont know better than to beleive everything they read.

/me wonders how many newspapers are also secretly run from stardock central

/me *giggle*
Reply #20 Top
nahhh.... Frogboy isn't Shoggot...

Frogboy doesn't bend chairs like shoggot do........ -believe- me.
Reply #21 Top
Of course you'd say that, Elfkura. YOu're just another one of my alias's.
Reply #22 Top
And he's not me, either....he only 'thinks' he can spell....Spell checker
Reply #23 Top
Ahhhh..so now all of us know that Frogboy have gender crisis

He's only tried to be a girl and a guy with one alias =P

You need professional help then, Brad
Reply #25 Top
/me watches frogboy giving himself outstanding advice

and people say i have personality issues