Good n Evil

We All Know That People Are The Same Where Ever We Go
There Is Good And Bad In Ev'ryone,
We Learn To Live, We Learn To Give
Each Other What We Need To Survive Together Alive.

Ebony And Ivory Live Together In Perfect Harmony
...

I believe we're born good - most of us.

If you meet 1000 people and talk to them, 990 of them are likely to be good people.

I don't think way because I"m an optimist but from experience and from a belief in natural selection.

How we define good and evil is based largely on a consensus in society. As a society, we have determined that certain behaviors are good and others are evil. Those who behave in an "evil" way (real evil, not Shoggot definition) tend to be eliminated from society - thus not passing on their genes (or less likely).

Over hundreds or thousands of years, those with a genetic tendancy to behave in ways contrary to society don't do well.

The result is a society with more and more people that are naturally better fitter to do well in it. And we happen to use the term "good" to describe those kinds of people.

Hence, I believe that virtually everyone is good.

Original sin... hmmm.

Let's review:

Eve ate an "apple" which gave her knowledge. She convinced Adam to eat the apple and then he gained knowledge. They were then cast out of Eden because they became “aware”. The apple then becomes a symbol of the original sin. Over the years we give this symbol of the apple to teachers.

So maybe another question here is: Why is knowledge a sin?

The important thing is that I am therefore sinless.

/me goes back to scratching.

All I believe in is a original skin....

There is no such thing as good or evil, they're human fabrications, used in games for power.

"Why is knowledge a sin?"

I think that what you mean is why is knowledge of good and evil a sin? A baby is unaware of what it is doing is good or bad. As they grow this is instilled in them by their parents and others. One of the first words a baby understands is "NO". Once you understand what is good or bad you can then choose which to do. This is why the criminally insane recieve treatment vs. the criminal that goes to prison. The insane don't have a choice.

Although the whole concept of the criminal having a choice is now being debated in head shrinker circles.

I think that everyone is born a 'blank slate'.

.....it's the rest of us humans determing what the next generation will do.....now....that's a worry!

hmmm... how to say this ...
People are who they are. The environmental and social influences have a great deal to do with your opportunities in life and can create biases and habitual responses. But essentially you come into the world with your own 'path' and a purpose. In reincarnation the model of a divine soul fits the physics of the universe perfectly. It's the only religious system that science could embrace at it's deepest level. The idea of one God who is the creator of all we see also fits at the outer theoretical boundaries of quantum physics. All the physical properties and natural laws of the universe are expressed by the smallest and simplest equations. The simplest laws are the ones that truly govern our lives. They are ones in which you find an expression of creation. Most of the physical, social and secular laws which govern our actions are our own invention. If we must force people to act civil to each other then we have deviated from nature. We deviate from the perfect path when we try to act correctly as well as when we knowingly act incorrectly. But deviation and attempting to change is part of the interaction of all souls. Just as an atom is made up of smaller particles, and all matter is made up of atoms, we as individuals are just smaller particles of a larger being which is another small bit of a larger consciousness which ultimately makes up "everything". Thus our inability to perceive the whole picture gives us a narrow view of the cosmos in which there is good vs evil, light vs dark etc. This perception is what forces us to continue living.

After you have lived your life, the energy which is you (your soul) continues on in the same direction it was already moving. You are presented with a review of your incarnation which allows you to see the consequences of all you've done. You have a few chances of escaping the cycle of births at this point. For most people it's a strange and confusing experience and the natural laws move them along to the next stage. Very few religions have any guidance for their followers to help with this process.Then you spend some time in the void (Bardo) waiting for your next life. When you are born your memories can range from a complete memory of your past life to just the circumstances of your death or nothing at all. The circumstances into which you are born are determined by the direction your previous incarnation was taking you. If you have generated a lot of negative energy by causing pain or suffering you will probably continue along the same line without knowing why. Escaping the laws of motion, or changing the direction of your life is a conscious act that can only be done by the individual and requires a great deal of effort. Growth is a natural consequence of positive activity or forward motion. The spiritual beings that we are develop through this cycle of lives, attempting to become older and more in tune with natural law. There is a relationship between the mind and spirit that can propel a soul to greater heights of awareness or drag a soul down to a stagnant state of material dependency.

It's easy to see why the concepts of original sin, heaven and hell and good and evil carry so much weight in organized religions. Someone needs to point people in the right direction, give them a reason to strive to be good so that we can all benefit from the advance of the one spirit that is made up of all our individual energies.

This got a lot wordier than I wish it had...

Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.


Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for there will always be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.


Keep interested in your own career,
however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism.


Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.


Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.


You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.


Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.





"Desiderata" is the name of this poem (?).
I think you may find it interesting, that's why I post it here, it can be the rule of everybody's life!

i'm good, and the rest of you are evil. i've never been a blank slate...

It is moments like this I really feel shallow. Thank you DavidK and Adni. Your thoughtful words are why I would visit here at 11pm on a Saturday night!

Hmm... Those that cannot state their opinion in less than hundred words or quote others are evil!

Crae,
I think that you told us above that "There is no such thing as good or evil", now how come that some people are evil?

people are devious like that

Exactly.

this is a bit tricky, since "evil" and "good" are often used as relative terms.

i am inclided to view human society as evil, since it tends to exert large amounts of unpleasent preasure on people who are "different".

having been in this position for many years, i have developed a jaundiced view of many human groups.

however, this is hardly the same statement as groups of humans are inately evil.

I can see where the concept of original sin comes from, having spent much time around young children. But people are basically born neutral, their values will be the ones imposed on them by the environment in which they grow up. I'm not one for religion, which certainly for the most part seems a little far fetched and often silly to me, so I honestly believe that each person comes into this world as a clean slate.

If anyone starts quoting Star Wars and Jedi 'force' I'll be compelled to hit them..

Beer Wars....Dark Lager...may the Froth be with you...

Desiderada lost all its appeal when the send-up was released...

Good and Evil are socially contrived concepts based on common acceptable standards of social conduct.
I think you are born aberrant, and grow to be abhorrent...[sorry, Doreen].
There has to be something in the way that children who are cruel to pets become serial killers...[or is that the other way round?...]

Frogboy has a 'Rose-coloured glasses' approach to his fellow man, that is not well supported with historical reality.
If 990 out of a 1000 people were inherently 'good' then global conflict would be quashed by the overwhelming powers of 'good' at the ratio of 99 to 1.

What is more realistic is that there 'may' be 10 in 1000 who are particularly 'evil' and a further couple of hundred sufficiently self-serving to support and condone the 'evil' ones, for their own agendas, which at best are just not self-less.

What you get then is total spectrum of shades of 'good' blending with 'evil' until you have a reasonably equally split system wher 50% are more good than bad, and vice versa.

Now if only we can 'push' people further one way than the other through reasoned argument, then the world may just become a better place....

Since Shoggut bandied the word "evil" around a while ago, I have thinking about this. There are many shades of evil.
There is real evil. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot were evil. They not only committed acts of incredible violence, they did so with gusto. Genghis Khan, Tamerlane, Mao, men who took human life simply because it was convenient, were evil. John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer, David Berkowitz, men who were possessed by demons the rest of us cannot fathom, committed evil.
Fathers and mothers who abuse their children have within them something that is evil. As statistics bear out, 90% of them were abused themselves, but still they lack whatever strength it would take to cast that evil aside.
Pimping, murdering, dealing dope are evil. I don't care how hungry or cold or whatever you are, there is another way. I am not being dismissive, I grew up in the South Bronx. There IS always another way.
Knowledge is not evil. However, knowledge of what you do is a requirement for evil. That is the distiction between manslaughter and murder.
But there is real evil out there. When some dweeb, calls someone evil for, I don't know, trying to make a buck selling software, I find that incredibly naive. It shows a level of self-involvement that is pitiful. Go to Rwanda, see the mass graves in Cambodia, go to Aushwitz, then tell me about evil.
There is also good. Putting the welfare of another or of a group ahead of your own welfare is good. Parents who take care of their kids are good. Firemen who rush into the World Trade Center are good.
Now, I am a secular humanist. I don't claim to know or understand Deity(ies.) Whatever. I just know that if we eat a little less to feed someone else, hug our kids and try to look out for the little guy, the world will be a better place. Oh yes, and we have to oppose real evil when we see it.
Just my thoughts.

Wow, you are an insightful man Koop.

Larry, you have done a very good job of putting my views into words

i agree that Frogboy seems to have a very optimistic take on the situation. it is definetly an appealing one. i was just sort of hoping it was more true where he lived. my positive and uplifting thought for the day

Jafo,
If you judge what you read asking your self "who wrote that?" and not "what it means?", it is like you buy a CD, because you have read somewhere that it is no 1 in the Hit Parade With a few words I don't think that "Desiderata lost all its appeal" at all.

Nice thoughts you have Larry!

Tamerwho? Who's that? Where did I stick that google...