Skin Applications - where do we go from here?

Possibly some more innovative GUI concepts.
Replace some of the now 'ho-hum' with the then 'gee-wizz'. We need some sparks of something new....not new colours.....not new XP 'flavours', but just more things that DON'T look like a Microsoft/Windows Operating system, [even if it is] and definitely not just another Mac/Linux/BeOS/Whatever 'failed' OS system 'ported' to make-pretend.
I mean something NEW.
Has anyone ever seen 'the Brain'?
It's a proggy that has been around for some years....certainly different....very much NOT a typical Windows/Office/Explorer interface.

There was a 3D interface that died and sank into the swamp....
Virtual 3D environments, etc...imersive interaction, etc....

Maybe new blood and new thinking is needed....and I don't mean WinAMP 3 re-hashes of a WinAMP 2....but different thinking....

I'll hunt up that 'Brain' link....

Layered skinning (duh, been yelling that for years). Separate frondends for apps so it becomes possible to build totally customisable guis. And more of that advanced stuff. Hmm, someone should write a windowmanager for Windows (sort of like WindowBlinds on steroids).

that brain link sounds interesting!

...what we need is....ummm.....i'll have a think and come back!
(i'm happy with my desktop for the next 24 hours or so )

I think the next step would be to put programs Like skin Studio on steriods and to slow down a bit and get to the documentation.

I have been with WB and DX pretty much since the beginning and skining the apps is fairly simple for me since I have been able to grow with the formatts but, I think new people to the community are turned off when they open up a UIS file and look at all the jiberish. Also even growing with the formatts I beleve that some of us are (definatly me) are missing some things that could make our skin much better..

So I vote for documentation before any more apps..

(note: putting things into sks is great but the hard docs need to be there too.. Sks is kinda like a good WYSIWYG html editor, it's great for many things but you still need to get under the hood with a text editor sometimes)

heh well. i havent been making much programs lately. latest is xxamp. btw its not skinnable even if it has xx prefix.

TasT is right.....highly detailed RTFM's to RTFM would enable everyone, old and new to lift their game and explore 'undocumented' unexplored terrain.
Dilligent reading of ALL of the LiteSTEP RTFM's makes 'STEPping quite simple [provided you remember all that RTFM]...but there is just soooo much reading to be read.
To get more 'new' people into skin creation, they are going to lack any developmental 'history' [eg. as I do with LS....going back to b21/23], so a lot of hand-holding is required to bring them up to speed.
So, more RTFM's are the go...

http://www.thebrain.com

The Brain.com link....worth a look just to see something a bit 'different'....

why do all the threads and NG posts about Stardock writing documentation for their products seem to die a quick death?

What do manuals have to do with progress?

Crae: I think documentation will go along way to ensure the health of the skinning community. To skin one must have the info on how to skin.

What I'd like to see is what would amount to either a totally new program or a partnership with Adobe to allow all parts of the standard Adobe GUItobe skinnable. Imagine a toolbar that was user configurable and more. I expect neither to happen.

There is room for a stand-alone freeware app that is good replacement for Sysmeter2. Sure you can do that with DesktopX or Hoverdesk to a certain extent, but neither are freeware and require loading a bit more than a system monitior.

A good, complete file manager program that's skinnable, much like the old 3D-FTP program.

A simple, easy to use skinable calendar. Rainlendar is close, but not well known or too easy to skin. Calenz is just silly if you ask me.

Coolplayer with CD support.

A skinnable Control Panel replacement style app would ne interesting.

From Stardock, a color manager like 3DColorChanger that provides interactive preview and application of Windows Colors.


What we don't need:
Clocks - Sticky note type apps - XP clones...

I agree with Russ on the SysMeter 2 replacement. Rainy - the guy who wrote Rainlender has one that's looking pretty good. Check out http://gamma.nic.fi/~rainy/Rainmeter.html

Also, if you want a free MP3/CD player that's nicely skinnable and a great alternative to CoolPlayer - check out QCD Player: http://www.quinnware.com/ One of the nicest things about it is that it's being ACTIVELY (yes, I was yelling!) developed!!

Actually, try this sometime:

Load up System Meter and then load up DesktopX with a System Meter type object. DesktopX actually uses fewer resources.

Here's my take: the next major winner of the innovation race will be the one that will offer something that comes closer to the human way of thinking, read here: spacialization. Since the PC is born we've been confronted with 2D OS interface that slowly evolved into a desktop metaphor with multilayered capabilities. It's been that way since years for many reasons (costs, hardware requirements, productivity, etc.). But since the humain brain is more efficient when it finds itself into a 3D environnement where spacialization concept comes into play, this will be the next inevitable major step to look at.

I believe its *now* the time more than ever to focus on this avenue and for many reasons:
- PC runs at blazing speeds
- 3D capable video cards are now fast, cheap and vastly accessible
- DirectX is now fully part of the OS
- People are used to computer generated 3D (games, movies, etc. ) and they love it
- Its the next *gold rush* era (personal opinion)

Now my vision is this: For now, don't put a full size 3D shell over Windows because this will cost lots of resources. Instead, find a way to have a 3D navigation console somewhere that uses "skinnable" or customizable environnements, pretty much the same way we decorate our houses and places. To illustrate my idea, imagine a "The Sims"-like environnement where you could build your 3D space and place objects (files, etc.) where ever you want! Ok, I may be a dreamer but I'm pretty confident that this would be a hit!

Since i'm not a dev, I just can't do it myself but if I were, thrust me this would be my personal project from the upcoming months! Of course, I have other ideas in my bag but I think it's enough for now Let's start the debate

Actually, allow me to disagree. 2D is a lot more productive than 3D. Oh sure, 3D is cool, but having to walk across a room, open a 3D filing cabinet to open a document or walk to the 3D library to open Word is a lot longer than just double-clicking on an icon.
To use your analogy of the real environment we live in, just consider the success of the remote control (2D), as opposed to having to walk to teh telivision set to change the channels (3D)...

That's a very good point you bring on paxx and I must admit you're forcing me to find arguments What could I answer to that...? Well, maybe this: using the desktop metaphor, what is more productive: having all your papers and books pilled up on the desk, like a 2D desktop, or having them classified on a bookself, in drawers, etc. (3D)? Of course, on a desk, you keep the minimum stuff necessary for fast retrival. But those things you want to classify for later consultation, what are you more likely to do? And how do you retrieve this info later? Your brain would surely call-up the "spacialization departement" to tell you for example that the book is in the upper shelf on the right side, near the cooking books.

Btw, I would like to use this post to precise my 3D idea: I just gave a suggestion that could be applied to any type of concept. The 3D space could simply be a 3D desk, for example. My point was to let everybody create the environment they want and customize it the way they want. Not forcing them to get what we want them to have. The same concept behind the skinning idea: freedom!

manuals good. without docs how can you fully exploit what we already have?

my monitor is 2d so 2d interfaces make sense to me. did anyone ever make a 3d shell?

Flip...the 3D thingie has been done already.....6 or 12 months ago or so.....some of us checked it out...got it going....thought Gee-wizz...and it disappeared into obscurity.
Someone might have the link.
I can't even remember what it was called...

For the sysmeter replacement, I use Skinmem - a free program.
It is still a new program being developed, so if you want something added that it doesn't already have, you could ask the author.

http://www.skinbase.org/skinmem/

Yes, Jafo, I downlaoded it then. It was cool, we all went WOW! But it didn't ake long to find it too much of a pain to have to walk across two rooms to go check you email! I'll try to check if I can find the link...

i like the way windows in macos X minimize

feed me

OK, got it. It's called Win3D.
This is their website: http://www.clockwise3d.com
They have a shockwave movie that gives a pretty good idea on what it is.

Yes....that's the one, paxx...

adobe atmosphere? :/


oh yea and "From Stardock, a color manager like 3DColorChanger that provides interactive preview and application of Windows Colors."
theres already a fantastic program, called "Color Control" that does this. its on dowload.com for sure

and all i really want to see from skinning is alpha-transparency. i HATE scary ragged edges

Thanks Paxx for the link. I tried the utility and indeed found it counter-productive since it requires you to spin around constantly to get items you want not to mention it's not intuitive very much.

My idea though was to be able to custmize your environment (as opposed to Win3D which forces you to get its "world"), pretty much like we all customize our desktop themes, icons placement, and such. But Win3D shows for sure that such a project would require a deep thinking because it may have adverse effect on productivity.

Thanks again paxx for the link