ANy tips for cruel AIs as Advent?

from Sins Forums

Any tips on how to beat cruel AIs as an Advent player? I can beat cruel AIs as Vasari but I am stumped with Advent.

Let me summarize where my question is coming from.

I usually play medium maps vs. 3 AIs, no teams, no diplomatic victory with large fleets. With Vasari I rush to colonize with a Skirantra carrier and use a migrator to cap asteroids via the turret loophole in parallel. I try to control one or more 'checkpoint' worlds, skipping the pocket ice and volcanos I can take later. I rush trade, load up on LRMs, and scout like crazy. I then try to survive the first couple of pre-star base battles using repair bays and microing my cap ship and bombers like crazy. Often I have to fight two at once meaning I might have to give up some ground or kite until I can reinforce. Once the trade income has bloomed, I invest in a couple of starbases, tech up phase missiles and such and populate the last 1-2 ice / volcano pocket planets. Add some more cap ships (usually a Kortul and then a 2nd carrier as the poor Egg gets hammered too easily), get some anti-strike craft and more bombers for the inevitable change in AI tactics (maybe a phasic trap if I have time) and march up the military tech tree (subverters, overseers, enforcers, more phase missile upgrades).

I continue to bait the AI(s) into fighting me at my planets with heavy defenses, until I get a large enough fleet to immediately counter-attack (using lots of bombers, heavy micro, and kiting if fighting Orkulus bases). Meanwhile I pray I can withstand the inevitable alternate strike from my other neighbor with my static defenses (since they seem wot work with AI though sadly not against human players) and whatever 'defense' fleet I can scrounge up. Each new conquered planet gets a starbase if it is on the border and eventually I reach a tipping point where I am strong enough to hold my own with my opponents (usually after first AI falls) and from there I either go up to RA or mass Kosturas (thanks to Greg30007 for the advice in another thread) and I win.

But with Advent I am stumped.

My kill ratios aren't as high early on. I fall far behind in fleets (too far maybe). No phasic trap. No nano jammer. Fixed starbases. Repair bay is lvl 2 tech. Illuminators level 3. No effective resource booster. Microing Guardians (i.e repulse) can do wonders but I still need more punch than I get from my Illuminators while Destras seem a long ways off. Long story short, lots of attrition, hard to get large enough fleets early on to survive two near simultaneous attacks. Too map dependent. No 'I win button' when I tech up high enough (mass transference is nice but I need to load up on cap ships).

I know if I get large enough fleets with antimatter regen and experienced cap ships I can punish the computer, but the problem is getting there.

Am I missing something? More bombers and kite like silly? Less static defenses? More emphasis on *gasp* diplomacy (which I freely admit I usually ignore). Something tricky with pirates? Sneaky culture tactics? As far as I can tell a pure disciple rush on the nearest neighbor gets me killed.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

strategy
5,081 views 4 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Well, you basically spelled out the problems with Advent.  Yes, a pure disciple rush will get you killed, especially against cruel.  I'd say your best bet is to lean on the Halcyon and use starbases as aggressively as possible.  Their immobility isn't a huge liability against the AI since it tends to charge them head on, and the Advent repair platform (though being tier 2) offers better repair rates than the Vasari version.

Essentially, Advent got overnerfed last patch, and are now a serious underdog faction.  You can win with them, but it involves outplaying the enemy early on and surviving to get your high-tech goodies.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

What's your fleet composition like? I wouldn't believe I would be saying this a couple of months ago, but the problem maybe that you have too many illuminators. Ever since they fixed their damage bug, you can't expect to do insane amounts of damage with them anymore. As this is the AI, it might be better to invest more in carriers (both regular and Halycon's) and let your strikecraft do more of the killing until you get HCs. Also don't neglect the guardians shield bubble ability, this thing can greatly increase your ship's survivability, especially when combined with a mothership. Speaking of this, a level 6 Progenitor is perhaps the Advent's great underused asset, especially in a war of attrition. As long as it lives, it can be used to instantly promote your new capital ships to the level of a previously lost one, allowing you to essentially view capital ships as more expendable, and keep your capital ships at high levels while your opponent has to work to keep them.

Also the Advent starbase, while immobile, is perhaps the best at crowd control with mass disorientation and meteor control able to do a serious number on enemy fleets, which the Orkulus can only long for. Properly supported with repair bays and hangars with shield bestowal, they can be tough to take down too.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

@Darvin3:

Yeah I kept trying to rush colonize with a progenitor in one direction and a colony ship going in the other. I think this got me overextended and then I would get in a drag down fight at one border while the other AI(s) hit me on the other. In multi-player I always go Halcyon first x2 or a Halcyon + Progenitor (unless a Kortul is pissing me off and the 2nd is a radiance). It might be better to not reach for that one extra world and hunker down sooner.

It is just frustrating since I need 3 labs for trade ports and 3 for illuminators but then the illuminators are underwhelming. I mean they aren't horrible but they are a large investment to get enough of them especially if I have simultaneous attacks I have to defend. So then it all becomes a starbase / repair bay / hangars fest which is manageable with two chokepoints and impossible with my econ early with three or more. But those defenses while amazingly efficient are not cheap and suddenly I am getting hammered by harder and harder fights with HCs showing up much to early to my liking. The attrition and expenditures to build those defenses and reinforce means I get stuck at maybe 4 planets and an asteroid or two. But when I turn around yeah I can beat the incoming fleets by abusing repair bays and guardians but then suddenly I am in a distant fourth place in fleet size.

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@GoaFan77:

Yeah I think illuminators are dragging me down. Their dps per cost doesn't measure up to the other LRM now.

Moreover as Vasari I can survive the initial assaults with single lab assailants and work smoothly on getting my econ up.

One game I tried to not over-invest in illuminators but 'rush' to destras was rough because I had basically all ice planets and my econ couldn't take the hit of giving up logistics spots meant for extra trade ports to labs, not to mention that destras eat resources. In another case I got beat like a drum since the map meant all three allies hit me within a short time and it was gg (I mean I could have kept playing but I got hamstrung).

As you say, carriers are the logical alternative till HCs, but 20 logistics points and a lot of resources isn't easy to swallow when you are getting hammered and you had to invest in defenses. Still I think you and Darvin3 are right. Halcyon(s) and carriers till destras and kite like crazy whenever I am on the offensive.

As far as star bases go, yeah against the AI, Transcencia are basically the pinnacle with mass disorientation and meteor control. It is scary how efficient they are when supported by guardians (repulse and bubbles) and some hangars with the shield buff. In multiplayer I do everything in my power to bypass a mature Transcencia star base. It is just that if I have to go down the 'security' tree too fast too soon it strains the econ big time.

As far as guardians go ... yeah they are indispensable for both bubbles and repulse. It took me some time to learn to micro them, but once I learned to ctrl key them, turn off auto attack, split them out of the main fleet (so no 'reforming fleet ' garbage) and then position them properly they became amazing.

I guess I will go with Halcyon -> Progenitor -> Halcyon and shift more to carriers and pray for destras. May try to survive longer without upgrading the starbases too much too fast and rely on more repair platforms and carriers. I think if I don't fall too far behind by the time I get destras (and enough bombers aggregated across carriers) then I can use the counter-attack trick to get some more room and then get to the high level 'goodies'. I know if I can past a certain critical mass, then my microed Advent fleet will be unstoppable.

That being said I prefer multiplayer when I can but my connection is so poor I keep dropping out way too often ((.

 

 

 

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Darvin and GoaFan you were both dead right.

Had my first successful game as Advent vs three cruel AIs (synopsis in another thread; https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/390953 for those who are interested).

Was a blast even though my starting map was hideous (volcano worlds anyone?).