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CheesusCrust's Speed Fire TB

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CheesusCrust's Speed Fire TB

from Demigod Forums

It's strange that I'd know his build, but somehow I do. 

Anyway, this fire tb build is the most effective fire tb build I've found in demigod.  It is extremely effective in 3v3 on cata, but does require that you solo a lane (mana preferred) at the start.  In short, you need to get up to about level 5 to start racking up kills, but a lot of the play style requires quite a bit of experience to pull it off well.

Here's is the ability build:

  1. Circle of fire 1
  2. Fire Aura 1
  3. Fire ball 1
  4. Fire ball 2
  5. Fire aura 2
  6. Fire nova 1
  7. Fire ball 3
  8. Fire Aura 3
  9. Circle of fire 2
  10. Fire ball 4
  11. Fire nova 2
  12. Circle of fire 3
  13. Circle of fire 4
  14. Save
  15. Fire nova 3 + Inspirational Flame
  16. Stats
  17. Stats
  18. Stats
  19. Stats
  20. Stats

Starting favor:  Ank of speed

Starting items:  Banded armor + scaled helm

Opening strat - tell whoever is on your team that you are going to mana the second the game begins. You need to solo somewhere.... if you are tied up in a 2v2, it will take awhile to level and you will likely be the primary target.  This is bad as you will likely have the lowest hp and be targeted.  You need to level in peace so you can come in later and get the kills for your team.  If you are allowed to solo, use the circle of fire to take out troops as appropriate and ESPECIALLY use it to dissuade anyone that comes to your flag from trying to push you out (eg, move up a bit - when you see them coming at you, cast circle of fire and then back away a bit.  Your job is to go back and forth between the xp flag (just talking cataract strat) and the mana flag.

Strat after level 3: harass.  You have the fireball now.  Use it.  A lot.  Anytime anyone is coming towards you on a corner, move up and cast fb.  If they are running away or moving to mid or mana to cap, cast fb.  Keep hitting them, over and over.  Try to stay out as long as you can in the field.  Because you are speedy, it won't hurt you as much if you have to run back to base to heal, but if you play it right, people will start running from you. 

Avoid direct combat when possible.  Fb, back up... use circle of fire, back up... then fb again.  Keep it up.  Once you hit level 4, your fb's are doing some damage and you can cast them every 4 sec or so.  You must be very mindful of your hp.  It will be low, so letting a ub spit on you =  bad.  You need to fb and get away before that spit hits. Once you practice the build a bit, you will learn what situations its ok to cast that fb in and when you need to run back without casting. 

Item build:  after you have the starting items, get a tp (as because of your speed, you can chase down enemies and then fb for a kill - keep a very close eye for kill ops as tp + fb + chase + fb = kill very often).  My next item is typically unbreakable for the hp and mana.  If I have an extra 400, I get scale mail as well on my 1st trip back.  Then nimoth.  Then plenor.  Then narmoth.  Depending on how things are going, pick up wand of speed.  And the ultimate is to get journeymans in this build.  You become crazy fast. 

Most speed fire tb's will get swift ank + boots of speed at start.  I find that to be a waste as your chasing power is generally more than enough with just swift + the fire auras. 

Anyway, the overall early game strat is always get the first hit in (fb) and then back up... only takes 4 sec to recharge.  Then hit them again and then chase.  Chase with aa, then fb for the kill.  Good 'ol cheesus moved all the way up to 50 or so in the rankings doing only pugs using this play style. 

Other thoughts - wait a bit until you start tearing down towers.  It won't be all that difficult for you if you are just 1v1 in a lane, but you really need to have that fb available if someone comes at you. 

Re: the low level of circle of fire until level 9 - circle of fire is quite useful in combat.  All the more so when its leveled up.  BUT - in my experience, the threat of even a level 1 circle usually causes people to back off in a 1v1 scenario.  They see the circle, they back away (my fb is recharging).  Most, if not all, players aren't willing to walk into the circle if you set it up just before they walk into combat.  Even if they'd only take 400 damage by being there wailing on you.  IMO, that's because people don't know how much damage the circle is going to cause in a 1v1 - they just know its going to hurt.  This makes it very easy to control the lane with fb + circle.

Replays: 

Here's a replay from a random assassin game:  team 1 - fire tb, ub, rook.  team 2 - ub, ub, ub. At about the 7 min mark there is a perfect example of where the extra speed pays off and how to handle combats when possible.  Around 10 min or so, another good example of harassment for a kill.  The game ended with an "strange" invalid gamestate with cheesus up 7 kills. Here is the link:  http://www.box.net/shared/d7sn05cabr

The next game is a pretty good match up - wip (oak), lorvin (ub), daddymandigo (erb) vs cheesus (tb), never fuk w a reg (erb), and maxtherion.  Not sure if wip, etc, was doing a pug, but cheese was.  Anyway, nothing insanely stellar.  Both teams played well.  Cheesus with a total of 3 kills bought priests, angel + cats.   Here's the link:  http://www.box.net/shared/g4stafdday

Here's a replay from a random assassin game:  team 1 - fire tb, ub, rook.  team 2 - ub, ub, ub. 

At about the 7 min mark there is a perfect example of where the extra speed pays off and how to handle combats when possible. 

Around 10 min or so, another good example of harassment for a kill.  The game ended with an "strange" invalid gamestate with cheesus up 7 kills. Here is the link:  http://www.box.net/shared/d7sn05cabr

The next game is a pretty good match up (wip (oak), lorvin (ub), daddymandigo (erb) vs cheesus (tb), never fuk w a reg (erb), and maxtherion.  Not sure it wip, etc, was doing a pug, but I was was.  Anyway, nothing insanely stellar.  Both teams played well.  Cheesus with a total of 3 kills bought priest, angel + cats.   Here's the link:  http://www.box.net/shared/g4stafdday

6,875 views 48 replies
Reply #26 from Demigod Forums Top

Unless you're going at least a primary ice build, deep freeze isn't worth it until very late game for these reasons:

 

A) It is a reactive spell and you will not usually be able to predict when you need to be in ice form to use it.  Sure, you can probably get in the right form when you know for sure your opponent needs to port out but for other things it really fucks up your game to try and be in ice mode just waiting around for a hammer slam or surge of faith to interrupt.  Frost Nova you can use as a primary fire hybrid or pure fire late game TB cause you know when you're going to need it for ganks or escapes or locking ports... One point in DF will just make you hang out in ice mode not casting fireball and not giving your allies fire aura hoping to get lucky and interrupt someone.

B) I'm embarrassed to say this to the TB master himself, cause I know you know, and you know I know you know... but TB's benchmarks are huge!  An extra point in fireball or circle of fire does way more damage for barely any more mana.  Fire Aura saves lives and ganks enemies and moves you around faster and increases the attack rate for you, your allies, and your creeps... and your allies minions.  Getting one point in DF seems like its no big deal, but when it stalls you from putting a point into one of the spells or fire aura which you're actually going to use all the time, it is no es bueno.

C) DF is shit compared to other interrupts like Pent and Foul Grasp... hell, if you're just going to put only one point in it, even Pounce is much better!  Using it like you do in your build is totally awesome, but throwing it in just to have an interrupt in a build where it doesn't fit is foolish.  When you're using a favor aside from BotS like in this thread's build, it is usually just going to be a waste of mana and a waste of a point.

 

The bottom line is its a fantastic ability in your build... but if you're using a primary fire hybrid or pure fire build, let you're teamates do the interrupting.  If your team is made up of Regulus, Occ, QoT... well, maybe another build besides Fire TB would be more appropriate... or a different DG choice.

 

Reply #27 from Demigod Forums Top

The benchmarks are big for a hybrid, but not nearly as big for a Fire TB. 

DF isn't JUST an interrupt, btw. I understand not wanting to switch in battle as a fire TB, but you still want the buffs DURING the fight. So, start with Fireball, Swap, Deep Freeze who you feel will use an ability and it will either silence a good player (who knows not to cast during its duration) or it will prevent any spells that were cast until 130% of their cast time is up.

Also, this can all be done in less time then Fireball's cooldown and everyone keeps Fire Aura as it takes about 5 seconds for an aura to fade after a form switch. 

Obviously it's not best for every situation, but if I played fire TB, I would get it.

Edit: Just pointing one thing out: 

Some Oak's are Epically good with interrupts which makes life SUCK as TB (especially Fire TB). Deep Freeze I lasts for 5 seconds. Which means you can drop to Ice, gain the Ice buff, Deep Freeze the Oak, Swap to Fire, gain the Fire buff (which you'll need with no BotS), and cast Fireball. 

One of three things can happen:

1. Your interrupted, your next Fireball will be uninterrupted.
2. He notices the debuff and doesn't interrupt you and you Fireball lands.
3. Or if you're real good, you juke the original Pent, then Fireball AND have a second Fireball that's uninterrupted. 

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #28 from Demigod Forums Top

Oh, on a sidenote:

Dude, Thunder, WE NEED TO PLAY DEMIGOD! 

We've played like 3 games together. But hey, at least you got to see my Failebus, hehe.

But hey, I'm gunna be in vent Sunday-Monday-Tuesday, any chance of seein you there then? If so, which days so I can pay more attention :D

Reply #29 from Demigod Forums Top

Thunder is MINE 

 

Though, I've been thinking of doing a fairwell-circuit and playing a few last games sometimes this next week. Then I'm moving to a land of poor internet (I think) so Demigod will probably be out of the question for some time. 

Reply #30 from Demigod Forums Top

Dude, TB/Sed/DA.

Lets do it. Pick a dayyyyy! :D

(I think the only game we've played, Hedge, was that 5v5)

Reply #31 from Demigod Forums Top

. Or if you're real good, you juke the original Pent, then Fireball AND have a second Fireball that's uninterrupted.
End of quote

Exactly - if you are up against an oak, you gauge how he pents, then juke as appropriate. 

TB, Sed, Da is a very strong team in the right hands on cata

Reply #32 from Demigod Forums Top

Teseer:  Sounds good man... I'd love to get a few games in before this game dies out completely.  I'll have OK internet on Sunday and Monday... and might have to make an escape to the land of great internet on Tuesday if those days don't work out.

Oak is... yeah, I don't like playing playing against late game Oak's without DF in my build.  But in most situations against most demigods, I just kinda don't see the neccessity in having an interrupt you're hardly ever going to use.  Hedgie used to say "Tsk tsk... ok, he's going to lock the flag right in your face."  I'd just think to myself... "Well, yeah, cause I've been working him over cause I've put all my points into damage and Fire Aura and have not been wasting one of them and forcing myself to form shift at inopportune moments for the suckiest interrupt in the game... and now he's gotta lock an run away... how is this a bad thing?"

Old Mother Thundercles didn't raise no fool and I always make sure I form dance before a fight so I have my attack bonus at the start, but once you engage then it just takes away too many AAs to form switch to get the bonus back and put the Deep Freeze on most DGs.  You have a RoI to drop as well?  Then fantastic, its well worth it but not when a level 1 DF and the form shift attack bonus are all you're switching forms for.

Hedgie:  I was going to write you something, but then realized I'll probably be talking to you on Steam soon... 

 

Reply #33 from Demigod Forums Top

Haha i thought you we're cheesus were tight Pacov.  Hence i asked you in a game awhile ago :)

j

Reply #34 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting OMG_Jongalt26, reply 33
Haha i thought you we're cheesus were tight Pacov.  Hence i asked you in a game awhile ago

j
End of OMG_Jongalt26's quote

I enjoy a little anonymity from time to time.  :)

Reply #35 from Demigod Forums Top

too funny!!  hopefully i played well in most of the games with you :)

Reply #36 from Demigod Forums Top

Man, so much Deep Freeze hate.

Don't worry, DF, I still love you.

Reply #37 from Demigod Forums Top

I heart deep freeze!

Reply #38 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting OMG_Teseer, reply 36
Man, so much Deep Freeze hate.

Don't worry, DF, I still love you.
End of OMG_Teseer's quote

Ahhh... I love DF too!  I just love it more for BotS builds where its free and you might actually be in the right form to use it once in a while.  Also, I just don't love it enough to turn a good Fire TB build into a mediocre hybrid for it. 

Reply #39 from Demigod Forums Top

Also, I just don't love it enough to turn a good Fire TB build into a mediocre hybrid for it.
End of quote

Reply #40 from Demigod Forums Top

Hey man, if you don't wanna get Deep Freeze, don't :)

I'm saying I would if I went fire. Chance of that happening? Pfft. lol.

Reply #41 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Thundercles, reply 32
Teseer:  Sounds good man... I'd love to get a few games in before this game dies out completely.  I'll have OK internet on Sunday and Monday... and might have to make an escape to the land of great internet on Tuesday if those days don't work out.

Oak is... yeah, I don't like playing playing against late game Oak's without DF in my build.  But in most situations against most demigods, I just kinda don't see the neccessity in having an interrupt you're hardly ever going to use.  Hedgie used to say "Tsk tsk... ok, he's going to lock the flag right in your face."  I'd just think to myself... "Well, yeah, cause I've been working him over cause I've put all my points into damage and Fire Aura and have not been wasting one of them and forcing myself to form shift at inopportune moments for the suckiest interrupt in the game... and now he's gotta lock an run away... how is this a bad thing?"

Old Mother Thundercles didn't raise no fool and I always make sure I form dance before a fight so I have my attack bonus at the start, but once you engage then it just takes away too many AAs to form switch to get the bonus back and put the Deep Freeze on most DGs.  You have a RoI to drop as well?  Then fantastic, its well worth it but not when a level 1 DF and the form shift attack bonus are all you're switching forms for.

Hedgie:  I was going to write you something, but then realized I'll probably be talking to you on Steam soon... 

 
End of Thundercles's quote

lol what. I hate DF. That ability is terribad >> Though I do see it as important against Oak/Rook/DA/Occulus/TB - in particular against TB mirrors. Everyone else it's sorta meh until you get triple shatter (in which case you're investing 5/6 skill points into something: it better be good). 

And I've always said he's gonna lock it in your face 'cause you've been flaming him with fireballs :P 

Also DF has poor synergy with stuns (and Silence in particular). Which is the major reason I dislike it.

Reply #42 from Demigod Forums Top

I <3 Deep Freeze. It's made many games for me. Many...many, many games.

Reply #43 from Demigod Forums Top

I hate DF - not because its lousy, but because I hate being hit with it when I'm in a situation where I have to use an ability afterwards (locking a portal late game, for instance).  Its a great ability, but not so good for speed fire tho.

Reply #44 from Demigod Forums Top

If form changing were instant, it would be a great ability for fire TB instead of stats because you could quickly stop locks, potions, ports, etc.

Reply #45 from Demigod Forums Top

Oh man, I'd be over if I could switch instantly.

Reply #46 from Demigod Forums Top

Oh man, I'd be over if I could switch instantly.
End of quote

Dito - I'd change my build up very quickly if swaps were instant. 

Reply #47 from Demigod Forums Top

Ima have to change that just to pwn some comps a few times tomorrow.

Reply #48 from Demigod Forums Top

In other news this build is REALLY ANNOYING to play against.