4Nana 4Nana

QoT Strat / Build

QoT Strat / Build

k so.. like nobody plays QoT much anymore.. but in case you want to know if you get her on random or want to try her out.. she's definitely underestimated.

 

1. Shamblers

2. Shield

3. Ground Spikes (GS)

4. GS II

5. Mulch

6. Shield II

7. GS III

8. Shamblers II

9. Save

10. Mulch II / GS IV

11. Shield III

12. Shield IV

13. Entourage

14. Save

15. Mulch III / QoT Ultimate (don't remember the name...)

16. - 20. Entourage to Tribute, Spike wave

 

There is some wiggle room to get spikewave / shamblers II earlier.. spike wave earlier if your team needs the slow to catch people for kills only.  Shamblers earlier if you're finding you're mulching often.  Sacrifice shield points to get these earlier.

 

Spend all of your alone time in closed for to regen mana fast and to aoe creeps.  Ideally you should fight in a creep wave, and GS the enemy and the creepwave at the same time.  This provides a double benefit.. armor debuff + dmg on enemy, and all your creeps will now focus the enemy.

If you're expecting a long fight over a yellow cap or to get the flag in your lane, shield first, then walk up in open form.  Ground spike and gogo.  Just stay in open form so you get full benefit of GS attacks, by the time you change to closed form you lose out on most of the benefit of GS debuff (you don't attack when switching forms, and it takes a couple seconds).  When you need to get away, stay in closed form and shield / mulch as necessary.  

 

If you're left alone in a lane, GS the tower and rape it.. it drops very fast :)

Don't run back to base early on if you're oom... just sit in closed form and regen quickly (+50% mana regen).  On that note, don't spam abilities if there is no need, they're very costly.  For example, if you can push someone out without needing to shield.. don't waste the mana using shield.  Unless you're at the crystal, don't shield people when no one is attacking.  If a beast is spitting and backing away.. don't bother shielding yourself until after lvl 7, your monks can heal it up.  Don't constantly summon shamblers.. you only need them to mulch (summon them then), so unless you're at full mana and can recharge most of it, don't bother summoning them away from the crystal.  Shield / summon shamblers when you shop.  This all cuts down a LOT on QoT mana issues.

 

Favor:  Blood of the fallen.  There are some others that work out alright as well.. but none have the tanking power, which is what qot is really good at.

 

Items:  For Blood, I'll usually buy vlemish helm first.  This + closed form is a LOT of regen.  Banded / scaled are great.. and then unbreakables sometime in there.  If you're finding you need a LOT more mana than health (usually only in 3v3 situations), then pick up plenor for a 3rd helm.  That's situational.. otherwise my next purchase is nimoth chestplate.  Eventually I'll replace scaled with plenor but it's usually not a priority.  Siege dems are nice if you have the cash and aren't left alone to take down the double side towers (if you're left alone, GS will rape them fast enough that siege dems are pointless if you still need gear).  I rarely ever get Siege dems tho.  Typical order:

1.  Vlemish

2.  Unbreakable boots

3.  Banded Armor / Scaled Helm

4.  Nimoth Chestplate or Plenor (depending on what you need more)

5.  If Nimoth.. sell scaled and get plenor.

Late game hungarlings, journeyman's treads, godplate.  Whichever you need most.

 

Mulching:  It costs 250 mana to do mulch @ 10.  That's 1500 hp and 500 dmg for 250 mana... RIDICULOUS.  It can be reallly hard to kill a qot w/ mulch.  Shield, summon shamblers / mulch, shield again, mulch, shield... They get off cd when you need them pretty much.  You don't really need a sigil in 2v2.. but 3v3 you should :P

 

You can take most people 1v1 if you go blood (even beast!).  Other than what I've said above, there really isn't a lot more to qot.. item choices are situational.

 

Additions:  I've been playing ALOT of QoT lately.  Some more things to note as a result.  The main reason I think people think qot sucks is because they just don't understand how incredibly powerful mulch is.  I never did until playing her within the last 2 months.  She has the best survivability of any demigod when focused.  Sedna can heal for 1500 every 7 seconds @ 10.  QoT can heal for 1500 every 7 seconds AND shield for 1450 dmg every 7 seconds @ 10.  That's just ridiculous.  With that in mind, you can simply tank alot of dmg if need be.  And people just don't realize this.  They will pursue a qot who's below 1000 hp thinking they have an easy kill.

 

Luring:  With the above in mind, luring has become valuable to me.  I'll start leaving a fight even if my mana isn't low but my health is.  People follow into double towers thinking I'm oom.  Then I shield / mulch up to a good health pool and turn around to chase them back or my teammates port in and we double up.  I really think the major advantage of QoT at this point is that people are so used to seeing a weak qot or no qot at all.  They just assume she sucks because nobody plays her.  Use that to your advantage :)

 

Ranged demigod tactics:  If there is a melee demigod you can't push out just by walking up and going at it, soften them up a little bit.  Hit them at range.  When they push into you, retreat back into the towers.  Get a feel for when they turn around.  Turn around at that point and start attacking again.  You can whittle down a beast / oak / ere and get them at a lvl that you can walk in and push them :)

 

Battle tactics:  You're not sedna.  You provide much more benefit to your team if you ground spike the enemy and attack them than staying in closed form and spamming shield.  If you're getting focused, it's different.  Stay in closed form, spam mulch / shield and absorb the dmg so your team can attack at will.  If they change targets and shield is close to coming off cd, wait and shield that person, but then get back into open and continue ground spiking.   Some people might not grasp this.. just tell them to pretend your occulus or something and don't have shield.  If they get a shield, great!  But they shouldn't expect it.  Again, you're not sedna.  Also, if you're not getting focused but you're getting low on hp (to the point where they could switch and almost catch you offguard), go to closed, mulch, and shield the focus target.

 

Replays:

http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&show=details&id=133199

- A great example of a mana heavy build.  I used plenor, vlemish, and hungarlings so I would always be able to push sedna out of lane and still be able to follow up on a tower.  I ended up pushing several people out of the lane prior to going back.  Also a good example of what to do when you're the focus of multiple people.  Start running back to the crystal in closed form, spamming shield / mulch the whole way back.  It works wonders.  Also, I mistakenly grabbed something else @ 10 instead of mulch II... meh.

http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&show=details&id=133260

- Only 2 helms this game, and it was plenty of mana for what I needed.  Got more armor than usually to deal with reg aa / tower hits / spirits.  A clear example of when spikewave is better than another point in shield, but I got it way late (would have been 2-3 more kills... w/e).  

http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&show=details&id=133264

- another 3 helm game w/ hungarlings.  Very useful against an all minion char.  Spam ground spikes to kill them off and shield / mulch to have the strength to still manage to push towers.  190 favor as qot in reg / sed / qot vs oak / ere / reg.

 

I ramble.  Hooray.

11,120 views 48 replies
Reply #26 Top

For the record, I played against 4Nana's mulch build yesterday and it is brutal.  4Nana plays her very very well, to the point that QOT was as impossible to kill as a high HP Sedna.  Level 10 mulch heals as much as Sedna's heal with the same cooldown for insignificantly greater mana.  Between that and a 1,450 pt shield every five seconds you will not be able to take her down as long as she has mana.  With me as Sedna and a Regulus constantly shrapnel mining her, she was able to get from our double towers to hers without help from her allies.  We just didn't have the firepower to take her all the way down before she could shield and heal again.

Just like Sedna, though, QOT is very vulnerable to stuns.  Unfortunately, we didn't have a Rook or Erebus handy.  Unlike Sedna, though, QOT is not vulnerable to interrupts.  One unfortunate hit from Penintence and Sedna won't survive.

I want to play QOT now, after seeing how 4Nana runs her.  Maybe it was just a shock of going against a QOT that wasn't either constantly out of mana or lost momentum after level 10.  My usual strategy when playing Sedna against QOT is to get Bishops fast and wait her out.  Once I hit level 8, I can negate her priests and her GS won't kill my bishops.  Usually that means I can wail away at her until she runs out of mana and leaves.  Regardless, QOT won't do enough damage to me to push me back.  I accept that I won't kill QOT, but I'm just in it for the flag.

Reply #27 Top

One thing I find that alot of people fail to do goes along way towards QoT killing.

1) AA on shield, not skills
2) Damage skills when shield is down or close to going down.

Doing that showcases QoT's late game vulnerability.  
Doing the opposite gives QoT a crazy amount of effective HPs and makes her seem almost magical in her ability to stay alive.

Reply #28 Top

I was on 4Nana's team in that game Saul.  I would often look over to see him deep in your base with two of you on him and somehow he would always escape.  I kept going over to help thinking he was about to die and I'd mass charm you guys to give him room but I don't even think he needed that.  One thing worth noting is that he was leveling like crazy so he was always a few levels above you guys.

I think I bought all the early citadel upgrades if I remember so he also had some extra money for gear (I was erebus so it made sense).  And we had a few early kills on you guys.

Reply #29 Top

Quoting LORD-ORION, reply 27
One thing I find that alot of people fail to do goes along way towards QoT killing.

1) AA on shield, not skills
2) Damage skills when shield is down or close to going down.

Doing that showcases QoT's late game vulnerability.  
Doing the opposite gives QoT a crazy amount of effective HPs and makes her seem almost magical in her ability to stay alive.
End of LORD-ORION's quote

Don't tell this to people  ;) !

Reply #30 Top

Well, obviously Lord Orion is correct unless you're UB then Spit away... Also, Monks will heal her while she's shielded and AA will usually only barely pop shield before it's off of cooldown (though I guess it's good if she's having to constantly use it and you're saving decent amounts of mana). 

Saul Tigh is pretty much right with Queen v Sedna, though I usually will pick up NR + Scailmail first. You need the AoE so that the creeps don't rape you and you can farm and keep equal with Queen on gold, and the Scailmail is necessary. 

Reply #31 Top

Always take shambler 1 at level 1 and cast at the start of the game. You get alot of DPS and monk killing ability out of them. You dont need shield right away to get to level 2, and you can't recast shamblers in the field at this point in the game.
End of quote

I tried this in a couple games now.. it's alright.. but I didn't notice any real difference.  Another time I lost both of them to an occ near the beginning lol (he chased them down well after I backed them out :( ).  I try it for a couple more games, but.. honestly saw no difference in my holding capabilities early game.  

Reply #32 Top

Saul, that game I had 3 helms (plenor, vlemish, hungarlings) lol.  2x you guys ran me oom even with all that :P  Oh sedna is here.. sweet.. sedna is leaving, but reg ported in! Sedna is back.... great... oo reg is leaving.. reg is back.. occ is here too?!  ... I'm oom :(

Reply #33 Top

Quoting 4Nana, reply 31

Always take shambler 1 at level 1 and cast at the start of the game. You get alot of DPS and monk killing ability out of them. You dont need shield right away to get to level 2, and you can't recast shamblers in the field at this point in the game.

I tried this in a couple games now.. it's alright.. but I didn't notice any real difference.  Another time I lost both of them to an occ near the beginning lol (he chased them down well after I backed them out ).  I try it for a couple more games, but.. honestly saw no difference in my holding capabilities early game.  
End of 4Nana's quote

30 extra DPS for the 2 shamblers may not seem like alot, but it hits many targets, so creeps get tagged indirectly for XP/Gold while you are focusing on the enemy DGs. 

That's also 33% more DPS over QoT's basic attack. Throw priests on top of that, and you have strong ranged firepower. You are doing the same as snowball TB, but most dmg is also hitting multiple targets.

As I see it, QoT is the best 1vs1 DG early game and works best at level 10 with a level advantage, 
You should

1) Always be on the 1vs1 side to level to 10 ASAP
2) Always be looking for the 1/2 flag cap. So, withdrawing from the flag and then blasting at range. You can't do that on the 2vs2 side. 

I don't see any DG doing this better than her. Good ranged AoE DPS, and a shield that makes it damn impossible to even 2vs1 her out of lane. (She can sit way behind the tower and still tag creeps in that situation.) The only real problem she has is a good Rook with attached monk and a good general microing said monk, but everyone has that problem 1on1. :) However, the question you ask in that scenario is,.. WTF is rook doing on the mana side, do we own the HP flag??? We have a bigger problem.... :\

If you want to be doing the 2vs2 side, pick a better DG that has holding capability and is not so dependent on levels to be useful. She is not the most effective choice for early 2on2.

Reply #34 Top

I disagree.. she's highly effective in 2v2 early on.  Her staying power is incredible.  This is why I was saying I didn't notice a difference between shamblers at lvl 1 and shield.  Shield gives her and her allies the ability to get that first xp advantage without taking hardly any damage.  After that.. shield is still good to go and you have ground spikes when 2 hits to fight out of a lane.

 

Also, you can 1/2 cap on the 2v2 side, it's just much harder because the person you're with usually isn't coordinated with what you have in mind.

 

While I enjoy taking the mana lane with any character, usuualllly there is someone on my team that is in a better position to have a solo lane (i.e. beast; reg / da who got hw).  

 

Anyway, I did post a recent replay of me using shamblers first.  

Reply #35 Top

The fallacy of your idea is such...

1) This works to level 8 or so before shield has no real impact compared to dmg output / life ratio in a focus fire
2) Then the mana side good tier 1 level 10 DG shadows you and rapes you repeatedly for the rest of the game. 
3) You get less oomf for spikes being equal level to the others. Less gold on you. more armor on DGs. All around less effective way to play QoT.

So, what is it then in the above case? QoT is a bad DG and there was nothing you could do in this situation? There is, always play the mana side. Level up ASAP, and then be the superior push force on the map before the others catch up and surpass your window of power.

Spikes IV + all DGs vs level 7-8 enemy DGs  = Push everything out of lane and then crumple every tower in your way before they can come back.

Reply #36 Top

it's not a fallacy... there is someone who needs to play the mana side.. and it's not always qot, that's all.  I would always put a beast over a qot.  The opposing demigod isn't going to rape me because he's 2 lvls above me, my mana side person will be shadowing him, or else I can escape.

It's less effective for anyone to not play mana side rofl.  But I'm not going to overlook the idea of teamplay to selfishly take a spot just because it will make me the person the team revolves around instead of the other guy who goes mana.  Just like I hate to buy currency on most demigods, I'll do it if my teammates will benefit more than I will.

Reply #37 Top

Quoting Thundercles,
Don't hold your breath buddy... if and when the mythic Lifekatana Queen Build ever shows up, I've got a funny feeling it will have a few disclaimers on its use such as:

-Make sure you have someone else buy currency and FS I for your team

-Make sure you have good players on your team playing with stronger demigods than your opponents

-Make sure you power level on the mana side

End of Thundercles's quote

It has been foretold! 

UB > Queen for mana side, though Queen is better than a lot of other people... 

Occulus, TB would probably be my other two choices for who would go better on mana side. Also depends on who is buying currency. If Queen is gonna buy currency, then Oak should go mana. 

Gimping your power-level'r so that your window of awesomeness lasts longer and hits harder doesn't seem like an effective way to run things. Imagine how awesome Spikes IV will be when you have a crazy UB to do damage on top of that. Exactly. 

 

Reply #38 Top

added a couple replays.. worth watching if you don't believe in qot power (175 favor, several levels ahead) or just want to see how to play qot :)

Reply #39 Top

ok.. I do really like getting shamblers @ lvl 1, you hit 3 pretty fast anyway, and then you have shamblers out.  Changed build :)  Ty for suggestion lord-orion.  

Reply #40 Top

Congratz, you are more awesome then most players so can play QoT sub optimally and still win.

...and Zex can kill most people with the spitless beast build.. the point is this doesn't mean it is the best way to play. etc...

:D

Seriously, if you and your team don't want to rush to spikes IV and then push to victory by level 11-12, play someone else or you are going to look mighty silly in a real game. (or I am guessing you are not going to take QoT).

The "mythic" QoT build denies XP to the opposing mana side DG with tactics you can't pull on the 2on2 side, you will outlevel all around. 

Reply #41 Top

OK, so I tried the floating around as QoT. (starting 2on2 on health side) I didn't level as fast as I normally do. 

Being equal level to UB is bad bad bad, although I can push him around a little and hurt him, it is not nearly the rout it normally is by being a level or 2 ahead of him. The problem is he can hurt me back and getting an offensive stalled is bad for QoT (between 7-10). If I am hurt and low on mana after winning the lane, I can't gobble towers like I should.

I think you are underestimating the push power of level 8 QoT having GS III and Shamblers III when everyone is still 6... and then having all idols in play and GS IV at 10 when everyone else is 8. Push with your team... and you are going to send them to base and get kills.

If you have LE on your team in this situation, you are gong to rape. (Chain snare and huge armor reduction)

Reply #42 Top

Quoting 4Nana, reply 39
ok.. I do really like getting shamblers @ lvl 1, you hit 3 pretty fast anyway, and then you have shamblers out.  Changed build  Ty for suggestion lord-orion.  
End of 4Nana's quote

HEY! I used to do that months and months ago and you yelled at me about it! You and pacov -.-

OK, so I tried the floating around as QoT. (starting 2on2 on health side) I didn't level as fast as I normally do.
End of quote

Obviously... also notice if you alternate hp and xp flags you power level everyone on the opponent's side, especially the mana farmer (in comparison to your own mana-side-farmer). Enemy hp teammates get extra flag caps from you losing HP (even if you take it right back, it still increases everyone's level equally which is bad for Queen). Enemy mana-side gets one extra flag cap per rotation to your mana-side demigod so he will outlevel yours.

Also... UB is scary. Yes. It's scary for everyone. Nothing new here. Everyone can lol @ UB when he is 1-2 levels behind. Few can when they are equal. The fact that you're pushing him around means you aren't doing too bad compared to most demigods.

Queen - Ereb - Oak is a very strong combo because all three have damage stacking abilities and can purchase idols. No one runs it, though, because of the "1 or 2 generals and 1 or 2 assassins" meta we have. 

Reply #43 Top

Quoting OMG_BlackHatHedgehog, reply 42

Quoting 4Nana, reply 39ok.. I do really like getting shamblers @ lvl 1, you hit 3 pretty fast anyway, and then you have shamblers out.  Changed build  Ty for suggestion lord-orion.  

HEY! I used to do that months and months ago and you yelled at me about it! You and pacov -.-


OK, so I tried the floating around as QoT. (starting 2on2 on health side) I didn't level as fast as I normally do.

Obviously... also notice if you alternate hp and xp flags you power level everyone on the opponent's side, especially the mana farmer (in comparison to your own mana-side-farmer). Enemy hp teammates get extra flag caps from you losing HP (even if you take it right back, it still increases everyone's level equally which is bad for Queen). Enemy mana-side gets one extra flag cap per rotation to your mana-side demigod so he will outlevel yours.

Also... UB is scary. Yes. It's scary for everyone. Nothing new here. Everyone can lol @ UB when he is 1-2 levels behind. Few can when they are equal. The fact that you're pushing him around means you aren't doing too bad compared to most demigods.

Queen - Ereb - Oak is a very strong combo because all three have damage stacking abilities and can purchase idols. No one runs it, though, because of the "1 or 2 generals and 1 or 2 assassins" meta we have. 
End of OMG_BlackHatHedgehog's quote

Yeah, but the real bad part is I cant make them waste XP on the 2on2 side. It's hard to push them both to base and miss a creep wave.

If I am on mana, I am leveling up faster then the 2on the other side, pushing my DG to base alot (missing 3-4 waves total usually), and tricking them into 1/2 capping the mana or XP flag alot.

If you want to play QoT well, doing this ensures you get alot of momentum going into the part of the game when QoT really starts to lose her DG on DG power badly.

Reply #44 Top

Still completely disagreed on that point.  It's not an argument for qot to be on mana side, but for anyone.

"But if I'm not on mana side as reg, I won't get to 10 first for slow mines, I won't be able to snipe the action side, I won't get gold faster to get cit upgrades.  It's important I'm on mana"

"But if I'm not on mana side as ub, I won't get 10 first for max spit and utter rape.  I'm ub hear me rawr"

"But if I'm not on mana side as oak, I won't be able to do anything for so much longer.  If I get lvl 10 when the other team is lvl 8, they will run and fear me and I will laugh as I slaughter them running."

"But if I'm not on mana side as rook, I can't get to 8 fast enough to get trebs to take down side towers faster.  Once I get to 8, they can't stop the slow defeat and I'll have enough towers they don't dare walk up to kill me."

"But if I'm not on mana side as tb, I won't get that next fireball sooner.  Besides, I can rape towers, and I have the speed / aoe to completely outfarm anyone on mana side."

"But if I'm not on mana side as da, I dwindle into uselessness.  I need to get to 10 fast and be the first to lvl 15.  I got heaven's wrath so I could still keep up on creeps just for this purpose, don't make my favor item useless!  I can rape if I'm farther ahead on levels, and definitely when I get 15"

"But if I'm not on mana side as Occulus, I can't get to 10 fast enough.  Think of the damage... THINK OF THE DAAMAGEEEEE.  They can't stop me then.. nobody can stop me... 750 chains and I kill everything in sight.. DIE DIE DIE GIMME MANA LANE"

 

Anybody can make a decent argument for mana lane.. and I've made the argument with so many of them.  The main stipulation about whoever goes mana lane is that they know how to use their level advantage and how to get a level advantage.  If they can do both of those things, then several dgs play excellent on mana side.  In some pug games I will forcefully take mana over a demigod that I think needs mana more simply because I don't trust that player to utilize the benefit (or have witnessed as much before).  

Reply #45 Top

Quoting OMG_BlackHatHedgehog, reply 42

HEY! I used to do that months and months ago and you yelled at me about it! You and pacov -.-
 
End of OMG_BlackHatHedgehog's quote

 

lol.  um.  well.  I think this is like the Oak argument "WHY DIDNT U HAVE PENT @ LVL 1? THAT WAS EASY KILL"  "WHY DIDNT YOU HAVE SHIELD @ LVL 1?  I LURED THEM BACK THINKING U HAD IT"

Sometimes shamblers are better (mana side) and sometimes shield is better (hp side) ?  I think that was my argument for Oak as well. 

Reply #46 Top

Quoting 4Nana, reply 45

Quoting OMG_BlackHatHedgehog, reply 42
HEY! I used to do that months and months ago and you yelled at me about it! You and pacov -.-
 
 

lol.  um.  well.  I think this is like the Oak argument "WHY DIDNT U HAVE PENT @ LVL 1? THAT WAS EASY KILL"  "WHY DIDNT YOU HAVE SHIELD @ LVL 1?  I LURED THEM BACK THINKING U HAD IT"

Sometimes shamblers are better (mana side) and sometimes shield is better (hp side) ?  I think that was my argument for Oak as well. 
End of 4Nana's quote

Well, that's my opinion too (regarding Shield/Shamblers and Oak's Pent/Shield). It was actually a 4v4 Levi game.

Reply #47 Top

I also think it's funny how Sedna was not in the list above xD

There is only two good times to ever put Sedna on mana...

Reply #48 Top

This build is nearly the same as mine except I always take spike wave over shield and I get shield maxed after I reach level 10. I end up getting GS 4 SW 2 and Mulch 2 at 10.