In a tough strategic spot, need help!

First off, thank god it is the AI you face, that should make this situation at least possible...

Second, it depends on what faction you are...

The key here is going to be making a fleet that takes very few losses...you can take advantage of the fact that the AI is not going to be able to effectively counter a fleet that heavily spams one or two types of units, so....

First, I'd recommend investing in capital ships...not too many, but several...the goal here is to get high level capital ships, because the AI isn't as good at taking them out and it may be your only chance to make a fleet strong enough to go on the offensive...just make sure you don't have too many low level caps at any one time, this can be a killer to fleet supply...

Your fleet composition should be dependent on what faction you are...

If you are TEC, I highly recommend trying to get a lvl 6 sova for its ultimate ability...this will allow you to build ships much faster on the planet you are defending....to get the most of this ability, it helps to have lots of factories at this frontline planet since rapid manufacturing only lasts a limited amount of time...

As for the rest of the fleet, TEC are probably in the worst position...my best guess would be, go for massive amounts of bombers and hoskikos...this will allow you to focus fire very well on enemy targets...if you attack them, just wipe out some caps and some important structures, then retreat...you'll have to keep doing this, making sure you are taking much less losses than they are each time...if you are on defense, start with this fleet and as you suffer losses rebuild with LRMs and HCs...

If you are Vasari, this situation is manageable...lots of bombers, and lots of subverters....and I mean, lots of subverters...you can probably micro them to keep most if not virtually all of the enemy fleet disabled while your bombers take out the main enemy threats, caps and HCs...

If you are Advent, you are in luck...guardians with repulsion and lots of bombers...with enough guardians you should be able to do repulsion and protect your fleet for about...forever...I'd highly recommend antimatter rechargers for your defensive structures if you are advent, as running out of antimatter will doom this strategy...

The best way to deal with this situation is to go bomber-heavy.  Put phase jump inhibitors down and attack somewhere nearby.  If the enemy comes to attack you, warp back to defend.  Here's the key; your carriers don't need to move away from the edge of the gravity well, so return to defend is simply a matter of turning around and phase jumping, no moving involved.  With phase jump inhibitors preventing an enemy's escape, your bombers should be free to mince their fleet.

The AI doesn't really know how to beat massed bombers.  Once you have about 100 squads or so, the AI will simply never beat it, though with two such opponents I'd be cautious if they're both close to maxed out.  With only six planets, you have a severe economic problem, so top priority is preventing casualties.  The AI is weakest at these late points in the game, but on the other hand if you're seriously behind it's going to be very difficult to find a breakthrough this late.

Its in deed a tough situation, what race are you playing this particular game?

Both enemy fleets are together at 1 of those bordering planets you say? Then I agree with Darvin. Always fight on your own terms (Sun Tzu . Set up a trap, lure them into a fight you will win (basically that's what Darvin is saying I think). Maximise your defenses and try to lure them into attacking your fleet plus defenses.

Take the initiative, for example attack their 'fleetless' planet with any or all of your ships, using the strategy Darvin outlined. basically to see how your two foes react. Will they (or just one of them) phase jump to the planet you are attacking, or will one of them (or both) use the situation to attack your planet...

Once you know their reaction its better to set up your own plan, but remember, only fight when you know you will win it. In any case, retreat to your planet when it is attacked and destroy the attackers with your fleet + planetary defenses. And yes you ll need a phase jump inhibitor for that.

I wouldnt go for Seluceia's hit and run tactics (but YES for his strategy!) as it is difficult in timing. I always end up with much more (and painful) losses than I wanted because ships can behave so slowly to your will in big battles...(in other words: I suck at hit and run in this game :P). But if you feel like you want to try it, go for it. If you are good at it it works very great.

Good luck, you'll need it (but a good warrior can make his own luck ) .

If you're TEC, a Level 6 Marza or two would help.  I like Darvin's idea along with making some bunched up repair bays and a bunch of turrets.  (This is how you would do it before the starbases were added in Entrenchment and Diplomacy.)  Then hope that the AI attacks so that it can suicide on the combination of the turrets + bomber spam plus the rest of your fleet.

If you're Vasari, get lots of Subverters.  If you're TEC you would hopefully have a Level 6 Marza by now.  If you're Advent make a properly constructed battleball.

This actually plays out in online multiplayer, but normally only against noobies who don't scout before they jump.  You put up your defenses with Phase Jump Inhibitors and a powerful starbase and perhaps fleet near the phase lane where you anticipate an attack.  If your opponent doesn't scout before he jumps in his fleet could be toast, especially if you have an exploding TEC starbase.

Quoting mbhagenaar, reply 3

Good luck, you'll need it (but a good warrior can make his own luck ).

End of mbhagenaar's quote

I can't resist pointing out that "good warriors" play humans v. humans games on Ironclad Online and not silly computer AI that are incapable of strategic thought.  In fact, if you log onto Ironclad Online you'll discover a much greater strategic challenge where, as you said, you often need to make your own luck (and doubly so in pro games).

I launched an blunt assault against the enemy (I'm playing as the TEC). I suffered relatively light losses, but won and bombed out the enemy planet. The AI really likes to run! Turns out the two allies were plotting against each other, and offered me missions to take out the other's ships. I got enough good enough relations for a ceasefire with one, and when that was in order, launched an all out campaign against the other. I ground away the enemy fleet after several battles (the AI really favors carrier cruisers, while I prefer flak frigates, heavy cruisers, and capital ships, though I do have some carriers). Eventually, one of the two was completely destroyed, and I have a peace treaty with the other.

Now to clear out the rest of the systems. (Why does the game bunch factions into one system on large random maps, even when five stars are available?)

I must admit that I find the 'Hard' and higher AI settings o.k. foes After all the talk about how insanely overpowered the pirates are these days, I must give credit to the 'Hard' AI for being able to fight ALL pirate raids in the game and at the same time building up an empire that was as big as mine. I believe I sunk 200,000 credits into them pirates in this game (in the late game I had to give them 30,000 credits each time to prevent them from coming after me instead).

I think by the startup settings you can make the AI as 'silly' as you want

^.^ And no offense but I disagree about good warriors fighting online vs real humans. Take me, for example, I have (ahum :P) great strategic skills but I really suck at micromanagement of all my units when a big battle is raging. Which is why I often loose vs. real players because I loose a strategically important battle due to lack of micro-skills (where often I should have won if you look at army composition).

But I must admit I didnt play Sins vs. a real human even 1nce. So I might not be as bad as I think but I will definately need to learn a lot vs. real players as that is a whole different league that IS true.

/salute

You just need to unleash your inner warrior.  The amount of micro required is tiny compared to, say, Starcraft.  It's really about being able to know what types of units to produce to counter your opponent and what types of research to do.  The micro in a fight is important but nothing you couldn't learn to handle.  My micro normally consists of having all ships of a certain type (say LRMs) bound to a number key and then ordering them to focus fire one-by-one on enemy ships on the Empire Tree (shift click).  Each capital ship also has its own number key.  If you can handle that you should be good to go.  Normally the fleet battles don't get real large, either, at least not until later in the game.  (Tips--try not to build more than two capital ships and focus on having lots of long range frigates with some flaks as well as some fighter cover.)

Come log onto Ironclad Online sometime and see what you've got.  You can find newer players on vanilla (regular) Sins and most of the pros on the Diplomacy expansion, so start with the original Sins.  You can also play humans v. AI games (comp stomps) which you might really enjoy, and ICO can also server as an online chat room.  You will find that playing against other people is more strategically demanding than playing against the AI, and it really is a different game that you have to learn.  (Best way to learn is to get beaten by good players and to learn from watching how they did it.  Replays are a great way to do this.)

    Thank you Sanchezz, you provided some good tips. As a matter of fact Im trying to get a friend of mine so far as to join me in a...what you call a compstomp (lol like that word). I've seen a diplomacy-introduction video by Frogboy and I like his idea of facing a 'vicious'-setting AI together with more players. Tho...perhaps 2 players versus that hard an AI aint enough and we 'll need more . Or scale down the AI-setting.

Once again thanks for the micro-tips Im going to use it! 1 more karma for you

Thanks mate.  Maybe I should change my name to Dr. Sanchez.  Oh yeah, people do get together and play against the Vicious AI, which is insanely powerful.

More like an insane cheater <_<

Like any AI, it'll buckle if you can hit it with enough bombers.  About 100 squads is the breaking point where the AI can't handle it no matter how much cash they have.

haha, insane cheater yes ^.^, thats why I usually play normal settings on every game because from 'hard' its mostly only AI-cheating. In Sins however it seems that 'hard' means just smarter but anything above 'hard' means also cheating?

Is that correct?

100+ squads yeah I noticed that. They kill a starbase for you even before your fleet can reach it (which I always avoid on purpose >.<).

Btw Darvin, your avatar means you re a big fan of the Advent? I almost always want to play them too. I just love beams!

I think there are two AI strategy levels--Easy and Normal.  After the Normal setting the AI just receives an economy buff, 1.5, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 for Hard, Unfair, Cruel, and Vicious.

I like the algorithm levels they have in GalCiv II...that was nice, being able to independently affect the economic and "intelligence" bonuses the AI got...

I agree that treating the intelligence and cheating aspects of the AI indendently is the way to go.  The cheating of the hard AI isn't very noticable; part of the issue is that the AI is a very poor empire builder so its economy usually falls behind even with the cheats it gets on hard mode.  On unfair mode, it can usually maintain a stronger economy overall, but in the long-run it's not hard to surpass it or outperform it.  Anything above that... and it's basically got so much cash that it doesn't know what to do with it all.  It basically researches every single technology available, builds a massive fleet far greater than anything you can support, and only falls behind in empire building and fleet management (because the unfair AI and above basically doing the best they can, and more cash isn't going to speed this up).

I'd agree that it just isn't interesting to fight a cheat-happy idiot.  I've basically got no option but to pull exploits out of my ass if the AI is showing up on my doorstep with fully-upgraded heavies in the first twenty minutes.

Power surge (I guess due to the recent thunderstorms) detroyed my PSU...Im on an older one now but I had to remove my videocard capable of playing sins as well cause its eating more food than that old PSU can supply...

My plans for galactic domination should have to wait (but not for long as I was buying a brand new PC already..It is in the assembly process already /cheer).

Btw arent we getting a little bit off-topic Not that I mind tho.

Missed that comment last time.  I just like this avatar; I'm not a dedicated Advent player.  I actually play random and take whatever I'm given, which means I'm very much a generalist who plays all factions.

Btw arent we getting a little bit off-topic Not that I mind tho

End of quote

If no one cares, then going offtopic is just fine.

Anyways, don't be afraid to go online and try out some multiplayer some time.  A lot of people say they're bad at micro, and it's really just a matter of confidence and pacing.  I'm not particularly fast, but I competed quite well in Warcraft III, a game notorious for brutal micromanagement.  It's about playing smarter, not harder.  You can pick that up by playing casually online.

If you can get over the hump, multiplayer is quite rewarding and fun, because your opponent is capable of learning and reacting in novel ways that an AI will never do.  Don't be intimidated by the learning curve, instead learn from each game and overcome it.

I ll be playing online for some games sooner or later. First I have to wait for my new PC and then I ll do some 'compstomping' and then who knows.

If I may recommend getting used to fast and faster gamespeeds (quickstart too)...they are pretty much the norm for online games, and they affect gameplay more than you might think...

Yeah, that's a good idea.  The other benefit of the faster speeds are that it won't take as long to play--you get more game for your time-spent buck.  (This is really important for online multiplayer because it takes much longer to play a Sins game than FPS and other RTS games.)

Regardless of race build some phase jump inhibitors on your border planet and fleet + defenses that guys above suggest.

I would withdraw to one of other planets that you own and once you see ai scouting and moving for attack jump back in and kill ais fleet. Both ais probably wont attack at the same time but if they do its better that you are fighting somewhere where you have suporting structures.....

My strategy depends on level of ai you are against because if ai gets faster ship build speeds than you it might not work...

And if you are vasari research capital ship collection thing... Helps if your economy is poor.....