I hate to be one to agree with the 'cheap' folk, but I'm slightly disappointed that this isn't part of ODNT too. The way I see it, this is simply an overhaul of TabLaunchpad, which has been part of ODNT for years, integrating all the eye-candy from the freeware ObjectDock. The closer you make this to TabLaunchpad, the more disgruntled customers you're going to have claiming that you're charging them for an update which was supposed to be free.

This is a trend I'm seeing increasingly these days, of a subscription-based product with free upgrades being 'ignored' when a 'plus' version of the product is released.

At the very least you should probably remove the word 'Object' from the product name, simply because it lumps it together with Object Bar, Object Zip, Object Sweeper and Object Edit, all of which are part of Object Desktop. It's confusing for your customers, and some would say intentionally misleading. While the product was freeware it didn't cause any harm, as ODNT subscribers could still download the full software, but now it's gone commercial it would make sense.

Incidentally, I would still consider purchasing this 'plus' version for maybe $10, but I'd still feel a little cheated in the process.

thanks culverSE

Wow, Frogboy I'm sure when you posted this you'd never have imagine this would generate more controversy (and more comments) than your post a few days ago on the Apple/Konfabulator thing.

Just to add to my comments above, I seem to remember upon the release of the freeware ObjectDock Brad commenting that they weren't including it in Object Desktop simply because it was so obviously meant to mimic Apple's dock that they couldn't in good conscience (and intelligent legal standing no doubt ) be seen to be charging for it. If this was the only reason it was kept out of Object Desktop, why are we now seeing an 'improved' version being released as a commercial product in its own right? This seems to be in complete contradiction to previous statements.

I see that object dock plus has gone so far beyond the competition, it isn't an imitational improvement, its now slightly inovative as well as being huge improvement over all else out there.

One other food for thought... with all this controversy, maybe he hasn't posted it yet cause he hasn't decided what he is going todo... pay version of OD or up the price of ODNT and include it in.

I've played on and off with the free version, but this looks REALLY nice. Like many, I was hoping it would be included as part of the subscription.

TaoX, I had that same thought but didn't want to jinx things by mentioning it. If not, I may just have to spend the $14.95 to get this on my desktop. Either way, I'm axnious to check out the beta.

I'm anxiously waiting for the beta to come out.

What all the complaining boils down to is people wanting everything for free. The fact that they may have a ODNT subscription just gives them fuel for their cheapness and whinning. Stardock is a business. It was never a Free Company. Some say they know about marketing, and yet development costs and company costs are supposed to be swallowed by the company? That is not successful business strategy. Now you want to refer to a good entrepaneur that has a successful business idea as greedy? I think jealousy is more appropiate. Come on, get off it. I'm not buying your whinning. If you don't like it, don't buy it. And please shut your whinning. You are spoiling this for the rest of us. >

I have a hard time sympathizing with those on here who are complaining about paying $20 ($15 for ODNT
subscribers) for what is a VERY nice piece of software. I'm more than willing to put out the $15 for
this it's a well-crafted program that I'll enjoy using for two reasons: 1) it gives me another option
for grouping icons and tray items and 2) it gives me something new to play with. I'm forever playing
with the potential of DesktopX and IP, and this is a new toy for me. Granted, it's a well-put-together
toy with quite a bit of usefulness. I'll be picking this up tomorrow.

looks more like Tab launch pad than anything else

I don't use Object Dock, but I feel exactly as grayhaze. It looks like updated TabLaunchpad.
Therefore it should be included in ODNT.

waiting for the link to work . . . patience . . . patience . . . patience

I can't wait til its released... It says that it will be available for purchase on Friday, but it doesn't specify which Friday...

Can you specify on that...

Keep up the great work and once again can't for to use it....

i would gladly pay $120 for the complete enhancement package including WinCustomize sub, excluding the games like Galciv and the others.

it could be called Stardock SKIN-Central and would come with a two year sub not just one.

because all of these applications ODnt + CursorXP + BootSKIN + ObjectDock ALL involve skins or skining of some format, that why i partially agree that there should at least be an option to purchase ALL skin related (either skin making or skin using including objectdock because i consider the themes for it "skins", no matter its functional purpose.

these "skins" for all these stardock applications are what make them a profitable application.
if you couldnt change what windows looked like with WB except for what it came bulit in with no one would buy it period.
if you couldnt change your cursors except for what comes built in with CursorXP no one would buy it period.
if you couldnt change your startup screen except for ones built in with BootSkin no one would buy it period.

To Frogboy, ill say this, bootskin and objectdock may not fit into your vision of what object dekstop is then i feel it has been incorrectly advertised, clear or not, because of the majority of the applications it does contain common sense says that it is a skin based suite of applications so when you tell us customers that you have created another new program that involves skins or skining in generals terms its like a slap in the face to common sense and just doesnt fit.

Now i did say u would pay $120 for the all inclusive package and two years of subscription.

ill explain this a bit.

the 120 i think is fair for all of that and since WinCustomize is basicly "Stardock in disguise" then i belive it fits into the skin based suit because thats the connection to the skins themselves.

The reason i say it should be a two year sub is that with all these apps out now being worked on tested released and bug fixed each individual application suffers at the hands of the others because work time is being spread farther and farther between all these apps,
one year just isnt enough anymore because updates/new features and bug fixes for individual apps are far and few between now adays compared to a few years ago.

now i have have already spent 50 for ODNT plus i renewed it twice last time jsut days ago so thats $130
i have also bought Wincust sub for 20$ + one renewal so thats 40 and its about to run out so add another 20 to make 60

130 + 60 = 190 over 2 years, and realy its not worth that but yet i continue to pay because without an active subscription if i had lets say a hard drive crash and lost what i downlaoded through SDC i can no longer install the apps i have boughten and im loyal. (ps i hate styleXP)

so yes ODNT is a bargin for all that you get, however because you cannot download and install the apps unless you have an active sub you are sacrificing a great deal for the "bargin" of the suit of apps.

I would like to work out a compromise between getting it all and being fair to Stardock, but that goes both ways Stardock also has to be fair to customers.


if it were up to me like if i won a billion dollars i would buy out Stardock and try to get it both ways simply because i hate it when people something is not possible,probable or viable.

So to end my rant/opinion

i say lets work together and figure soemthing out because i fear what might happen to one of my favorite software companies and my favorite community on the web if things go south for either side.

Didn't notice it before, but on the stardock/objectdock page right under where it says size 9.2mb it says date 7/13/2004. More patience...more patience...more patience.

Corky_O:
1) yes you can have multiple non-tabbed docks

and 2) yep old skins can be used in the new version on the new tabbed docks... if the skin doesn't provide tabs of its own the default will be used. Also, a new skinning guide has been made available with the program to help artists along with the new abilities.

-

hah and thanks everyone for the backing, yeah you definitely already get one big bang for your buck with ObjectDesktop as is... ObjectDock's perfect niche as a new program is on its own.

i'm excited for you all to be able to try out the new program!! hope it works well for you all

-Jeff

The Purchase link is now available, thanks Brad and the rest for working to get it up today!!!!!

go to http://www.objectdock.com

What I find a little boaring - apart to have to pay more , (despite i'm OD subscriber since years...) is that everyting is always "on development"....
- WB is in alpha version since a while ...
- IconPackager is not really fixed ...
- Icondeveloper and SkinStudio are not fixed for Win98 (yep i know, development for Win98 is not a priority, but as they are still in beta version for XP, the troubles becoming under WIN98 should be analyzed ...)
Okay, Stardock has always counted on OD subscribers to help to find bugs and fix them, but somewhere, at a time, I think, Stardock should release Progs when really FIXED and /or if in beta version, for free ...

At the end of the day, I think most people would prefer that programs like ObjectDock Plus be made.

And the only way programs like ObjectDock Plus can be made (by Stardock anyway) is if they are available stand alone.  As much as some people would like it to be part of Object Desktop, I think people can understand at some level that we would have it in there if we could afford to.

If Product A generates X in revenue then we can only spend Y amount on it. It's really as straight forward as that.  If Y exceeds X then eventually the product dies. 

I think the most important feature of Object Desktop is that it is constantly improving, evolving.  Regular updates across the board with occasional new components thrown in there.  And the only reason why that's possible ix because we keep X greater than Y.

I will say this, we will look seriously at putting together some sort of PowerUser bundle where the user would get Object Desktop + WinCustomize subscription + CursorXP + ObjectDock Plus + some other goodies for say $89.95.  But we'll have to put some thought into that.

neophil, what are you talking about? WindowBlinds 4.3 JUST came out a couple months ago.  Nothing forces you to view alphas/betas. We are constantly putting out new betas of our software as we move to the next version. But the released level versions aren't exactly old. And SkinStudio 4.3 works fine on Win98 (does here anyway).

BTW, % of Object Desktop users who use WinME/98: < 3%.

Frogboy,

an easy solution would be to provide varying levels of subscription

basic would be what OD is now $50

Enhanced would be basic + Wincutomize $60 - $65

Power user would be basic + Wincust + objectdock + cursorXP $90 - $100

and finaly Poweruser premium wich would include all apps regardless of when they were created and a automatic 2 year sub, excluding games of course $120 - $150

yes i do stand by that all the apps should be also sold in seperate standalone purchased programs for those that either dont have the money or do not want all the other apps.

But those of us that do wnat them all it jsut makes sence to have a package with them all.

An easy solution yes, but marketing suicide. 

The more product options you create, the more confusion you create which translates into lost sales.

We learned this the hard way when we had Object Desktop and Object Desktop Professional on OS/2.  OD Pro cost $129 while regular OD cost $90. Regular OD never recovered until we discontinued OD Pro.

Hmmm, maybe marketing suicide but feature creep seems to be another flavor of that beast.

I personally think $15 is a pittance, but it would be nice to see a small discount for OD users. I think that would eliminate the nineteen plan option, you know? Get 10% or something off of new releases. Maybe $5 for OD subscribers, $2.50 for Wincustomize subscribers. If you are using a decent ecommerce backend, you should be able to add in something like that even if initially you had to cue in your own serial # or something...

Just a thought. I plan on buying it to toy around..

Disregard the discount for OD users, you mentioned a 25% discount in the actual Object Dock Plus thread. So the $15 IS for an OD subscriber.

I should read before I open my mouth.