Assassin Oak

I've been meaning to write a guide again.. but.. a couple things to keep in mind.. everything about how I play is situational and I change things depending on the situation.  While the build is mostly set until after 15, the item order and general strategy change each game.

 

1-3. Shield / Pen / DJ - Get w/e order you personally want.  If you expect to fight in the middle, shield is a great lvl 1 skill.  If you're the double on the fort flag, shield is a great lvl 1.  But, fighting 1v1 on mana, pen first can be more helpful.

4. Pen II

5. Surge I

6. Shield II

7. Pen III.  Yes, I ALWAYS get Pen III first.. don't get into a situation that you need shield III to get out of until you hit 8.. you can wait that long, but the additional damage from Pen III provides more benefit if you don't play stupid.

8. Shield III

9. Save

10. Surge II / Pen IV

11. Raise Dead Ward I

12. Ward II

13. Ward III

14. Ward IV

15. Surge III

16. Soul Power I

17-20 - Morale, DJ, or Shield.  Shield max can be helpful if enemy has debuffs you want to keep off, morale is great for more damage, DJ is nice to spam more mana but I almost never get more DJ due to lack of mana issues this late.

 

Favor:  BotF, or Cloak of the Night

I rarely pick cloak, but it's a popular choice with others (which I usually see is their downfall).  It's nice to counter occ / ere jump, but I'll usually just get botf and use j-treads to catch them.

Lane: Ideally you can get mana lane at the beginning.  However, this is very team dependent.  You are one of the best choices for mana tho (I might write up something on lane assignments in another thread).

Starting Item: Monks*.  Save for a tp only if you think the other team is likely to push your teammates down behind a tower.

*If 2 generals, make sure the other general knows to get monks, and get scaled helm / banded armor.  You will get clerics (1500g) as soon as you go back shopping (preferably when you have 2300g to get clerics, a tp, and fs1).

Next shopping trip is very dependent on how the game has gone thus far.  Is your hp fine to push your lane?  Then get mana.  If not, get unbreakables.  Ideallly you will have ~ 3250g when you first go back and can get plenor battlecrown, unbreakable boots, and a tp.  However, if the other team is overly aggressive, it is better to go back around 2350g to get 1 of those items, fs1, and a tp.  If you have any money in between any of this, get w/e you can and get scaled helm as a little item.

So, General 1st shopping trip (assuming monks on first trip):

-1 1500+ Helm and / or Unbreakable boots

-1 tp

 

After this point, you need to get lvl 7 immediately if you haven't already gotten it.  Pen III and some mana to use it is where you finally start doing something.  At this point, if lane assignments are still working out, then keep doing what you're doing until lvl 10, where the TRUE power of Oak begins and the game changes.  If you think you need a sigil to fight @ lvl 7, get one.  If you just recently came from the shop, a great way to go back is to spam all of your mana fighting someone out or pushing down a tower as low as you can get it without dying to a gank.  You'll have accomplished tower damage or severely hurting the other person and can safely go back to base.  Always have a tp in stock to save / gank.  If you're playing aggressively, get 2 tp's so that you can tp in to a flag, push someone all the way back behind their towers, and be able to tp out again.  Beyond lvl 10 always carry 2 tp's and a sigil.

 

Next Items:

Again, your shopping will be sporadic now.  Have these items lined up (again, the order is dependent on whether you need more hp or more mana)

-Unbreakable boots or 1 helm asap if you didn't get both on first trip

-2nd 1500+ Helm

-Nimoth Chest

-Hauberk of Life

-Bishops / high priests (only if you need them over monks.  I typically only get if my monks die often to aoe like a tb / occ / rook / reg).  

-Demolishers (I don't often get these.  But I probably should get them more.. they are incredibly useful, both to tear towers down and they do a decent amount of damage on your target when you have pen / surge going)

-Little items to fill slots:  Banded armor / Scaled Helm.  Rarely I will keep 3 helms to spam abilities a LOT, but eventually you should sell.  However, not worth selling banded to pick up any other item on the above list.

 

Beyond this point, you should be all over the map.  If left alone, push any tower in sight and be prepared to shield / port out.  Don't be afraid to continue pushing down the tower as low as you can safely get it even if 1 person tp's in.  As long as you have enough hp to survive w/e stun they have so you still have time to shield.  Keep your spirits with you and just use them for additional damage on your target or to absorb tower damage.  Don't send them off on their own to attack someone or a tower, they are very weak.

 

Portal Game Items:

-J-treads (6750g):  I tend to get these fairly often, even sacraficing creep upgrades to get.  If you are able to successfully get a portal, these allow you to port into the flag, shield, lock, and run away safely.  W/out them, you have to run there, shield / lock / port.  This leaves you little else to do on the map except keep the portal, and you might not make it to the portal if someone is in the lane to slow you down on your way there.  They are also AMAZING for chasing down erebus / occulus after they jump / swarm.  Yes, you can catch a double jumping occ and a batswarm II erebus.

-Hungarling's Crown (5500g):  If I find myself constantly running oom yet still needing high health, I'll get this and sell vlemish helm.  This is a GREAT team item as well.

-Groffling Warplate (5200g):  Helps to push towers down and for walking through tower farms.  If I don't need, and don't think I'll need the speed from J-treads, and my mana is fine, I'll get this instead.  Allows for great staying power.

Obviously at this point you should have as many tp's and locks as possible, and 1 sigil.

 

Get cit upgrades as necessary.. I usually like to put most of these off to my teammates as I feel confident in my ability to fully utilize the power portal game items give me.  However, feel free to take a decent kit and then save for creep upgrades.  I also do whatever I can to not buy cur1 unless there is someone else on my team who I think can be stronger than myself (refer to Wrong Person Buying Currency section here).

 


9,332 views 36 replies
Reply #1 Top

Other Thoughts:  Use penitence for damage.  It's a great interrupt, but it's also an amazing damage ability + slow.  The ONLY time I save it is when fighting a Rook to interrupt slam, when fighting a tb to interrupt fireball (and only if I know they aren't good at fake casting), or if I know I can kill w/out the enhanced damage and need to interrupt a teleport.  Obviously if it's up and there is something to interrupt, go for it.

When fighting another Oak 1v1, save penitence and wait to surge.  If they surge first, pen it, if they pen you, surge and save pen for their surge.  Keep in mind when they do their surge after that.  If you missed the interrupt because they did surge right when you did remember that; next time time your pen / surge combo so that you can pen their surge and get yours off.  NEVER get interrupted on surge against an oak.

 

Shield:  I suppose this deserves it's own category.  Many people will wait too long to use this ability and end up dying or letting their teammate die (I do this occasionally as well).  If you don't know exactly how much damage you will take in a stun or the other team can do to you in burst, a little early is better than trying to wait until the last second.  If possible, shield a teammate when you know they're about to take a lot of burst.  If you have Shield III, you can use it to shield a teammate about to get a kill so they don't get stunned and lose the opportunity.

Do not portal run at lvl 8 just because you can shield and tele out.  Take down the towers first, and use it to port out from that when someone comes.

If a teammate is getting blown to bits, obviously a shield is great.  However, realize that you only have 1 shield and it's a long cooldown.  Don't waste it.  Late game, your teammate better be sigiled and < 3k hp before you shield them.  You never know when the enemy will switch to someone else who actually needs the shield.  i.e. your beast is @ 2k hp after you both get out of a stun.  ASSUME he will sigil, and just wait to use shield on someone who actually might need it.  He doesn't need a shield when he will then have 5-6k hp or w/e after a sigil.  The only time to do this is if he's about to get a kill he would not otherwise get w/out a shield (stun coming).  The fact an enemy knows a shield is still available is a great threat and can get them to turn around.  If they already see it, they know they can push someone else harder than they might have before simply because they know that person now cannot get shielded.

It is important to have a firm understanding of how much damage every demigod can do at every level to fully utilize shield.  The mod where you can see your teammates hp / mana in a little box above your abilities is VERY helpful as well.

 

Replays:  Tourney game oak / reg vs oak / reg:  http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&show=details&id=126213

Zen_God and me vs Russians (Kallemix / Rembo) mirror oak /ere:  http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&show=details&id=126305

(more replays to come)

Reply #2 Top

just wanted to say cloak can be very good if you have a good ub in your team so you can shield him and cloak out into safety.But if you don't have many tanks well botf is better

Reply #3 Top

Good job with the spirits at 11. A lot of people skip spirits altogether, which is definitely a mistake.

Reply #4 Top

hehe... I swear I thought posting an erb build here made the most sense :)

This is the build I typically go with when pugging or in games against highly skilled opponents.  There are a few alterations to my build, but I’ll provide 1 somewhat static build that is generally very good.  The overall goal is to max out bite/mass charm/ and hit level 2 bat swarm as quickly as possible.  The build’s greatest strengths are (in no particular order) getting in and out of situations safely, capturing portals, saving teammates, and getting kills. 

Ability Build:

1-bite 1

2-coven 1/mist 1

3-stun 1

...

Favor item:  Blood of the fallen

edit - also, this is just a silly joke towards hedgie, so no offense.  Thanks for posting your oak build.  I think its great that alot of us folks that have been around the block are posting our tried n true builds.  Thanks for posting!

Reply #5 Top

I would say discussing a build thread with alternative builds and their benefits/weaknesses is valid. Posting a different demigod's build in a thread about yours (like what Rawr did for you. He posted an Oak build in an Erebus thread. I posted a slightly-different Erebus build in an thread and made a brief discussion of the benefits of mine over yours). 

Really, the silly joke should be towards rawr, not me. I was trying to contribute to the topic at hand. 

Reply #6 Top

lol I thought it was a silly joke towards me as well.. maybe it still is and he just thought u were the one who posted the oak build ;)

I enjoyed it either way :D

Reply #7 Top

Lol. I was wondering if pacov would post an LE build here...

Great guide, RAWRRRR. Despite my comments on the other thread, this is pretty much exactly how I play Oak 90% of the time. It is very effective, and after 10 is just about unstoppable, provided your teammates are competent.

I played at least two games over the weekend where we were losing early and my teammates were ready to concede at level 9, and I was like, "Hold on, I'm just getting started." We ended up winning both games. A lot of people don't consider what demigods are on what team, and who is strong at what point in the game.

Reply #8 Top

ROTFLMFAO, this is coming from the guy that yelled at me on more than 1 occassion for waiting to get shield 3 until level 8. 

Now did you say: 

"oh hey i overextended hoping that you could save my ass with with a level III shield instead level II now my TP has been interrupted and i'm foolishly dead, my fault, sorry about that."

no it's more like:

"OMFG you're level 7 and you don't have level III shield, jesus, you just cost us the game" 

You also yelled at me on more than 1 occassion for getting shield at level 2 and pen at level one :omg:

The moral of this story boys and girl, is that get shield at level 1 whenever you have a teammate with you.  It is also good to get if you end up in a lane against 2 opponents.  Don't make your decision to go with shield 1 or pen 1 or even spirit ward 1 until you have to.  Don't make the decision to decide between BOTF or Cloak until you have to.  Always get shield 3 at level 7 unless you are playing a shieldless Oak. Shield is just as much about being a teamplayer as opposed to an individual player.  

A hybrid oak who doesn't invest in shield can become quite a powerhouse.    

Cloak is great teamplay as well, it helps you catch that erebus or occ as well as provide a means of escape for you when your shield is used for a teammate.  The downfall, and a big downfall at that, is that it does not provide much staying power.  You'll get pushed around a lot more.  That 800 hit point deficit from not having blood will be a negative the whole game.  Either favor item is vialble though. 

I typically wait and if i font need BOTF as a 'pot' when i hit level 4 or so i will go with cloak. 

My build order is typically:

  1. Shield
  2. Pen (or DJ if i need to regen health or mana if i used shield)
  3. DJ
  4. Pen
  5. SoF (or shield on rare occassion - i'll go with shield if i havent bought any helms yet)
  6. Shield
  7. Shield
  8. Pen
  9. hold
  10. Pen + SoF
  11. Soul power (i get this first for the flat rate damage add and since spirits 1 dont last that long)
  12. Spirit ward
  13. ward
  14. ward
  15. Sof
  16. ward
  17. - 20 a mix of sould power and DJ but never rally.

Spirit ward 5 is kind of a waste as well as rally. 

Armor:

If pushed back to the cit. early then Banded + scaled Helm + TP

Assuming i did get pushed back then my next purchase will be plenor + nimoths + banded. 

Followed by unbreakables & vlemish

If i dont get pushed back early then i will try to get vlemish + unbreakables + banded etc.

The bottom line is that my standard mid game items results in:  Vlemish + Plenor + unbreakables + nimoths + banded (or hauberk) + bishops + lvl4 siege.  Of course helping with creep upgrades is a must.

Also, always assume purchasing cur1 unless there's a reg on your team.

If lucky then i will snag hungarlings, orb of defiance or j-treads..  usually in that order but j-treads can be fun.  

Groffling typically isnt worth the price of admission.  Assuming you have the items in red above then orb tends to be the better purchase.  You will gain a net total of 500 additional HP but lose armor which mitigates 500 HP (so you lose 500 mitigated HP) so it's essentially break even at that point.  The benefits are that the 500 HP is good against skill spamming and is cheaper by 1200 gold. 

I also enjoy having girdle (if i have DJ leveled up), cloak of flames (replacing hungarlings) but who gets that much money in a standard game lol.

As rawr said, always keep 2 tp's on hand, locks as well.  If you dont have orb then a sigil. 

 

Anyways great write up rawr! 

 

Reply #9 Top

nice write up, thanks. 

The late spirits can be really effective, though if you coordinate for last hits maxing DJ can be a good call too..

I used to play Cloak a bunch, but Blood Oak is better, imo...

Any replays?

 

 

Reply #10 Top

My skill order is actually the same as John Galt's.  That's the skill order I like the most anyway.

I get DJ at 3, shield 3 at 7, and I don't get spirits until I have one point in Soul Power at 11 (otherwise I find having spirits is a bit meh for assassin oak... :/).  I find shield 3 at 7 is good, because often with oak I'm laning the hp with someone else so I won't be the highest level character on the map so I feel I will need shield 3 as soon as possible to do the saves. 

Something maybe obvious you should say about using Oak is the order you do moves when you are fighting someone i.e. first you penitence, then you surge to increase the damage surge does on the enemy, then you auto-attack so your auto-attacking a softened enemy with increased attack speed.  Rinse and repeat.  Yeah I know...real obvious, but I still see people doing it wrong all the time  ^_^

Anyway, good post   :thumbsup:

Reply #11 Top

A couple things.  Soul Power I @ lvl 11 is less effective then Raise Dead Ward I @ lvl 11.  The spirits absorb tower damage when you need them to and provide 2x the dps benefit of soul power (18 dps vs 39 dps).  It's a minor issue, but spirits first is better ;)

 

Also, as for shield @ lvl 1, yes, there are times where it is a MUST to have shield @ lvl 1.  But there are situations where Pen is a better start.  When I said "w/e you want" what I meant was what I wrote just after that explaining which to pick and when.

 

As for shield @ lvl 7, if I bitched at you for this it was probably because I did something stupid or you did something stupid to where shield 7 would have helped (probably me).  If it was me, then I wasn't serious and was looking to deflect my stupidity more than likely.

 

An example of not getting shield @ lvl 7 and it paying off GREATLY - Tournament game last night.  Oak / reg vs Oak / reg.  I push reg out and he runs away marked under 600 hp.  I then run to the middle to defend my reg to snipe again from the oak who is fresh from the shop (aka full mana, I have 600 mana).  I pretend I have Shield III and that I can prevent a penitence interrupt.  Pacov assumes I have shield III and doesn't even attempt to penitence, which would have interrupted.  The additional damage from pen 3 was also the only reason reg got so low, and DJ allowed me to use it freely since I know I can regen in the lane after I push him back (only mentioning that since I noticed Pacov w/ no DJ but s3 p3 @ 7).

 

Also, never assume purchasing currency and attempt to push it off on another teammate.  If nobody speaks up, THEN get it lol.  Your power @ Oak comes greatly from not buying currency.  You can get all the late cit upgrades you want, but currency will ruin your mana to walk all over someone @ lvl 7 and be first on the map to lvl 10.

 

Groffling typically isnt worth the price of admission.  Assuming you have the items in red above then orb tends to be the better purchase.  You will gain a net total of 500 additional HP but lose armor which mitigates 500 HP (so you lose 500 mitigated HP) so it's essentially break even at that point.  The benefits are that the 500 HP is good against skill spamming and is cheaper by 1200 gold.
End of quote

I do not know which item you are talking about :/  orb of defiance is 1450g cheaper, and narmoth ring is 1200g cheaper.  Neither provides a net total of 500 hp gain over groffling.  Taking a lvl 15 oak with 2 helms, unbreakables, nimoth chest and then picking 1 item this is the following list (no flag bonuses):

No 5th Item:      4760 hp / 8816 modified armor hp

Groffling:           5435     / 11304

Narmoth Ring:    5510    /  8816

Orb of Defiance: 5260    /  9468

The armor form groffling mitigates significantly more than 500 hp even if you are referring to orb, and WAY more if talking about ring :P  Plus, as for orb, you really cannot afford to give up the slot for locks or sigils or ports to get orb late game.

Reply #12 Top

Spirits absorbing tower damage is definitely a good thing.  My problem has always been that they just dont stay alive for very long.

Good example for pen 3 over shield 3 ...

 

I was talking about orb of defiance, for some reason i had it in my head that it was 4k instead of 3750. 

Level 1: (just for easy comparison)

w/ BotF, Nimoth, hauberk, unbreakables, plenor, vlemish and Orb = 4700 health  / 7802 (modified armor health)

w/ BotF, Nimoth, Groffling, unbreakables, plenor, vlemish = 4275 / 8294

w/ BotF, Nimoth, Narmoths Ring, unbreakables, plenor, vlemish = 4350 / 6351

w/ BOTF, Nimoth, Narmoths Ring, Groffling, plenor, hungarlings and Orb = 4925 / 10540

 

Oops i just saw that you had yours at level 15, here is 15....

w/ BotF, Nimoth, hauberk, unbreakables, plenor, vlemish and Orb =  health 6660  / 11988 (modified armor health)

w/ BotF, Nimoth, Groffling, unbreakables, plenor, vlemish = 6235 / 12968.8

w/ BotF, Nimoth, Narmoths Ring, unbreakables, plenor, vlemish = 6310 / 10096

w/ BOTF, Nimoth, Narmoths Ring, Groffling, plenor, hungarlings and Orb = 6885 / 15,698

 

I don't mind giving up sigils on occassion for orb, getting the extra HP + Armor and not having to give up a piece of armor plus being able to avoid some burst damage or allow shield to cool down can be a benefit. 

however i now see your point, what is a (8294 - 7802 = 492) difference at level one becomes almost a 1000 point difference at level 15....

 

Reply #13 Top

If you get Orb you have the money to save your Banded Armor slot. More HP == larger monk heals and larger sigils which usually overcomes the slight difference it mitigated hp since it's pretty uncommon someone just auto-attacks you to death. 

Reply #14 Top

Well, yes, if you include the hauberk it becomes closer.  However, that would really be like comparing the benefits of hauberk to sigil imo :P  I just did the same 4 items, and then a comparison.  Forgot to add in botf, that makes groffling stronger than orb as well w/ same 4 items.  Also, sigil + groffling = 5700 and hauberk + orb = 5500 (assuming no sell back.. also, yayyaya you end up getting more than 1 sigil and orb lasts forever.. but w/e).

 

Factor in the fortitude flag and the difference between orb / groffling becomes larger again :P

 

I just don't see orb as a good purchase for Oak.  Have a replay of orb proving to be very useful as Oak?

Reply #15 Top

Quoting OMG_BlackHatHedgehog, reply 13
If you get Orb you have the money to save your Banded Armor slot. More HP == larger monk heals and larger sigils which usually overcomes the slight difference it mitigated hp since it's pretty uncommon someone just auto-attacks you to death. 
End of OMG_BlackHatHedgehog's quote

 

negative on larger sigils w/ orb.. you're not having sigils.  It's a large difference in mitigated hp and a very small difference in total hp (225 hp w/ banded, 425 hp w/ hauberk), and the hp difference for monk heals is greatly overcome by monk heals on a sigil.  Unless you're srsly talking about having no locks or no tps as late game oak.. in which case..  :troll:

Reply #16 Top

Quoting RAWRRRR, reply 11
A couple things.  Soul Power I @ lvl 11 is less effective then Raise Dead Ward I @ lvl 11.  The spirits absorb tower damage when you need them to and provide 2x the dps benefit of soul power (18 dps vs 39 dps).  It's a minor issue, but spirits first is better

 
End of RAWRRRR's quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pele5vptVgc

:dur:

Reply #17 Top

I just don't see orb as a good purchase for Oak.  Have a replay of orb proving to be very useful as Oak?
End of quote

No, I don't get Orb as Oak. I was merely advocating its cost effectiveness. And yes, I would give up a lock. You can make the "false assumption" that in a perfect game you'll never win a portal from the enemy and therefore, will have nothing to lock. 

Reply #18 Top

I wasn't referring to you for the replays.. was meant for Jongalt, who my post was primarily directed at (didn't see ur post until after I posted lol)

 

and .. that argument is a terrible reason to not have a lock lol.  If you're legitimately never getting gold or cd flag and your enemy isn't pushing you back to your gold / cd flag, locking the health flag is still worthwhile at that point.  Locking gold or cd flag is definitely worth it late game to have more map control and threaten pushes.

Reply #19 Top

Oh i rarely get orb so i dont know if i have any replays... I was just saying that it is a very viable item and fun too!  It's possible that i got one in my last game last night with hedgie...

it's not a necessary item for my build considering that if i have over $5k then i will get hungarlings (im almost always running out of mana) and then i will need another 3750 to get orb.  by that time we typically need creeps / upgrades.

And i would never give up TP's or Locks for orb just sigils. 

One thing that we're just looking at is the numerical comparison from orb to groffling.  Don't forget that it mitigates 100% damage for 10 seconds which is great:

walk-into the enemy pack, shield your buddy, get aggro, use orb deflect that fireball, grasp, spit, chain lightning and fire nova.  Get healed by your bishops (if they arent dead yet) and then you have less than 25 seconds left on CD for shield which could give you a quick escape at the end of the battle. 

Eseentially Orb not only provides a static boost to your HP and Armor, but it deflects that damage for 50% of the time that a sigil is effective.  If you have 6k HP then that sigil is only giving you 3k HP for 20 seconds.  Sigils are a lot cheaper though...

Reply #20 Top

soul power at lv 11 its the must

Reply #21 Top

It's not a must.  Spirits @ 11 do more damage than soul power.  And spirits provide benefit like absorbing tower damage as well.

The only time I would pick Soul Power first is against tb / occ.

Reply #22 Top

Whoops!

Reply #23 Top

Neither do spirits.

Reply #25 Top

Can't ever go wrong with more levels of DJ.