Frogboy Frogboy

Boot Screens and Legal Issues...

Boot Screens and Legal Issues...

In our last poll we asked you what section would you like WinCustomize to add the most.  With about 1100 people voting it was pretty clear:


BOOT SCREENS: ~40%
Trillian: 22%
Other: 16%
The Rest: 24%


Many other customization related sites support boot screens. But there's a problem. Most boot screens are actually pirated software. Which is ironic because the same person who would never consider clicking on an attachment would happily replace their WINDOWS KERNEL.


The way you replace your boot screen on Windows XP is to replace the graphic images in the Windows XP kernel. So many, if not most, boot screens on various sites actually contain a copy of the Windows XP kernel. 


In a community that values intellectual property as ours does or at least says it does, we just can't reconcile this. How can we morally or ethically be against ripping while allowing people to submit files that contain the Windows XP kernel? It's in essence software piracy.


This has been a difficult decision for us because we want to serve the needs of our users and skinners. And with 40% of you wanting this section, it's pretty temping. I mean think about it, nearly half the people who responded to the poll want boot screens.


Not having boot screens hurts the popularity of our site so you can see the dilemna. 


Now, if someone knows of a way to apply a boot screen in such a way where the boot screen submitted doesn't need to contain the NT kernel please respond here and let us know. We're perfectly okay with having a boot screen section if the submitted files contain just the graphics needed to do so. Perhaps someone has written a program that can apply those images to the system.


In the meantime, we will be looking at adding other sections including perhaps a Trillian section. Are there enough Trillian skinners here interested in submitting their work to get a section going? Let us know. Thanks!

33,358 views 52 replies
Reply #26 Top
You can't just "ask Microsoft" You are able to edit the kernel by yourself and for youself, because Steve Balmer isn't about to walk into your house and tell you to knock it off. However, you can post the bitmaps to let the downloaders edit the kernel. That is fine and legit.
Reply #27 Top
I agree that Microsoft would be very hard pressed to say yes to any request to open/alter kernels as it would open a pandora's box for them with every Tom, Dick, and Harry wanting the same allowance for another type of alteration. The skinning world is rather insignificant when compared to the world of issues that MS would create for themselves by granting any kind of permission as being discussed here. That is partly why they seem to have a hear no evil, see no evil when it comes to the limited world of skinning in relation to their world wide consumer base.
Reply #28 Top
I meant that....how exactly are you going to "ask Microsoft."
It isn't that simple, and frankly not worth the hassle. So you can in fact do it a legit way..but people are making too big of a deal out if it already.
Reply #29 Top
Quicknote is a program like notepad only skinnable.
Rainlendar is a calender that shows on your desktop very much like the current crop of DesktopX calendar objects, although rainlendar can link up with Outlook. Many times rainlandar appears in a screenshot for a Windowblind or DesktopX theme.

As far as the Boot section, it doesn't matter either way for me. If it is does without having to host kernals, that certainly would be the better way. BootXp seems to be the more popular program for that.
Reply #30 Top
Well then if its not worth the hassel..Then as My Grandpa used to say.."Anything worth doing isnt going to be easy in the first place or else someone else would have already done it.." See the guy up there who posted the Bootloader Link.....in the someone else would have already done it...So ...whats the issue....All were really talkin about is replacing an Image in Bitmap form....This is my final reply and I wont visit this thread anymore..(I genarally just sjhow up to keep up on the pertinant info...and create havoc..Just ask Big Doug...
Reply #31 Top
I use BootXP, and it works great. However, I have NEVER used anyone else's NTOSKernel file. Not on a dare would I. All you need to do is save a bitmap and drag it into the program...it can convert to 256 on the fly.

If people REALLY want bootscreens at the site on top of Logons, which I do, BTW...well, I think Stardock can either write an app that duplicates the functionality of BootXP, or offer a link to the software.

Drop125: It's more than just asking for permission, IMHO. This is messing with the very heart of the NT-based OS. The casual user could easily break their machine beyond their ability to repair. Have you seen how many complaints people have with just WindowBlinds? The average user isn't computer savvy to use a piece of software that is basically point-and-click. Distributing varied NT kernels from virtually anywhere and anyone could introsuce lord only knows what kinds of instability, and the average person will immediately blame Stardock. But, if each user is forced to modify their *own* kernel...well, the responsibility for any mistakes is solely on their shoulders, and Stardock is completely off the hook.
Reply #32 Top
I would like to see a boot section with just images and in 16 colors only.The people will know how to use the programs to merge the boot pic into the kernel.I wouldn't mind if Stardock will code it's own program to do that as well
But instead of just upload classic walls converted in 16 colors by a program (usually an ugly result)why not drawing pics with 16 colors custom palette that really worth the view ? This would be an interesting challenge for gfx artists and skinners.Remember de good old days of the Amiga and demos scene ? Great pics in 16 and 32 colors

Reply #33 Top
Just four words...Trillian
Reply #34 Top
Bootscreen>sections-
-low-res backgrounds (640x480 res walls)
-progress BMPs (progress bars)
-Windows OS besides XP (all said in title)

As in we should upload BMPs here-plain and simple.
We aren't losing as many users here to Trillian as to Boots obviously.
Can we just leave it at that please?
Reply #35 Top
Frogboy –
I’ve been changing out my boot screens for quite some time using this program:

http://www.belchfire.net/~userxp/indexbe.htm

I wrote a program to back up my original NTOSKRNL.EXE file prior to using this, and was pleased to find the feature built into this program itself. At any rate, when me and my friends give each other boot screens we make sure that they’re all zipped up the same way, so we’re only giving each other a series of bitmaps. We unzip them into a folder, open up BootEditor, and build the boot screen. Now this may sound like a cumbersome/confusing process, but actually it’s really simple. The graphics that we send are all named exactly what they are in the BootEditor program, so in your “new” boot screen, you replace image1.bmp with your new image1.bmp, and continue doing so for the rest of the numbered images. It takes all of two minutes to open the program, select new boot screen, replace the images, and “build” the new boot screen. You should check out the process once or twice yourself to see what I mean.

Anyhow, I would love to see some of the artists here make boot screens as the art found here is simply amazing at times, and there’s nothing better than a boot screen to top off a whole skin suite.

It seems to me that if this program didn’t suit your needs, a little reverse engineering could result in a StarDock product that does the same thing in a more standardized process.
Reply #36 Top
You don't need any program running to change a boot logo. There is no "BootBlinds." You just download a resource hacker like 'Resource Hacker' for example and change it and save it (after you made a backup kernel) boom you are done. The idea was great, but one negative that was brought up and that doesn't even really exist...killed it.
Reply #37 Top
In case anyone went to the previous link that I had posted, I updated it to point directly to the program I talked about, Boot Editor, and not the entire list of the other software...
Reply #38 Top
Umm Acouple of entrys or so above me said "ask microsoft"..Refering to the fact that that was not as simple as I would make it to be...Um sorry to inform that citizen.But I work in full system repair..componet to full netwerk instalation..I have to modify all sorts of things to run bench test to perform repairs...I work with IBM and AS400 Systems all day long..When I need to create testing apps I call and get an e-mail with permision to edit and Diasect all I want as long as I dont repackage and SELL the software..Now..If the said Boot editor were made by STARDOCK and DISTRIBUTED FOR FREE...Are you all listening..The key word is FREE as in not Making any Money...Microsoft has an entire division that I get transfered to espressely for that reason...Microsoft does want to work for you Not against you...Belive it or not..Yes they want to make a Buck while their doing it...but they are willing to let people create fore them for free.If they feel they can profit from it. Well then they step in and say something..and we all know how Dos came to have MS-Dos with MS in front of it...Um thats it..
Reply #39 Top
m Id also like tp point out that Microsoft only gets like 3 dollars for everycomputer that Is sold with Windows on it...Hence the partition windows version you get instead of the actual disk....
Reply #41 Top
Why are we having this discussion?

If it's not safe or legal then don't put up a section for it.

Also wasn't it froggy who was fussing about bandwidth just a few days ago?
Put a Boot section up and more will come but, will more buy Stardock products? Most likly not and if they don't then the bandwidth bill goes up and we hear more fussing about that...

If you want to add a new section that will be of use put up detailed documentation for the skinning formats that are used for the proggies on wincustomize...
Reply #42 Top
The point i was getting at was that you don't need a freaking "Free Boot Editor." You can use any already existing winodows resource hacking tool. That is what I said. So there is nothing people are buying. It was free in the first place....screw this this discussion is going in circles.
Reply #43 Top
Yes Frogboy, as someone mentioned before, Rainlender is a free skinnable calender. Sysmetrix artist don5318 is using it to compliment his sysmetrix skin. An example is here https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=28&SkinID=744
Other artists have used it in ToonXP and integrated into DesktopX to compliment those themes.
There is a Universe Metal Rainlender skin here as a good example too. http://www.skinbase.org/section.php?sections=rainlendar (halfway down the page)

Quicknote is a free, simple to make skinnable notepad, that pops up with a push of a small button(two states). Some popular WB artists here have created quicknote skins to compliment their wb themes(Blue grid by Boxxi? is one). I have used them in my sysmetrix themes. I had matching quicknote skins in all of my Corona II sysmetrix skins(New expanded pak coming soon). The good thing about quicknotes is that the notes never disappear from the small notes window, until erased, even when the computer is completely turned off. But, it uses very little resources.

Quicknote program is here http://www.lowdimension.net/

Rainlender program is here http://vapaa.dc.inet.fi/~rainy/


Reply #44 Top
I'd love to see the Trillian section (It was my first choice) and I'd be willing to upload all my skins for Trillian to this site. http://www.honz12.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/skins/?dir=TrillianSkins
Reply #45 Top
Anyone with a copy of the Windows OS [any version] can read for themselves the EULA....and if they also manage to comprehend it will discover that reverse engineering and/or decompiling of the Microsoft product is not....how shall I put it.....permitted...
Reply #46 Top
Exactely Not permitted...As in if you want to do it..You need permision...Im not typing this with an attitude or to be malisiouse (sp) ..Its just that I know for a fact you can c9ontact a department at microsoft for this exact reason..thats all..Im sure the benefit of an Bootscreen app for ppl who would crash their system would be a smarter route..Im not trying to be mean or bash..Its just no one is trying to discuss a logical chain of process..I have to do everything by the book when I decompile...Im just trying to point out that its not that hard to get permission..as for that if Stardock did it for free just like CurserXP..Then I boot utility created by such an Award winning desighn staff such as Stardock should be an easy thing to get rolling..Now Im not comparing curser XP to a boot editor...They both are diffrent forms of an app..Just try to understand you really only see the boot for about 10 seconds so Why really go to that much effort..It seems 40% just are stuck on 10seconds of their computing experince...
Reply #47 Top
I have to agree with the majority. Considering the gains, messing with the kernel seems sort of an unnecessary and unwise risk to take.
Reply #48 Top
Um to point out when I logged on today..It seems that their is an article posted about WB4..Seems STARDOCK...has been Licensed before for doing MSSTyles or Skinning Windows..NOW if it IS SUCH A PROBLEM TO WORK WITH MICRTOSOFT ON THIS THEN HOW DID THEY GET LICENSEDC BY SO MANY HUGE CORPORATIONS...I noticed Dell, WarnerBrothers also were listed...HHMmmmm..Seems somebody re3ally doesnt want to add boot screens and a quality approved boot sacreen editor to their line up???Wouldnt it????Just pointing out the facts..Posted By Stardock...
Reply #49 Top
Personally, i dont think its worth the hassle for 3 seconds of pretty picture...
BUT... from what i hear, if the screens are simply bmps matching certain criteria of size and color depth than i see a happy solution in some of the posts above...
Make a subsection of the Wallpapers section (or its own section), with one of those checkboxes on the page top for "Boot Images" which should meet the necessary criteria.
This way, the users get what they are looking for and Stardock does not have to worry at all about legal stuff . The only IP concerns would be the same ones as any other images in any other skin.
Problems solved, peaceful company & happy users.