Frogboy Frogboy

Boot Screens and other conundrums

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Boot Screens and other conundrums

from WinCustomize Forums

Looking at this week's poll on sections people want, it is pretty obvious that people want Boot screens.

This puts WinCustomize into an odd position. Users often hear about "ripping" which is where someone takes another person's images and uses them in their own work without permission.

The problem with boot screens is that a "boot screen" is actually the Windows XP kernal, modified with new bitmaps, put into a ZIP file. Ignoring the support issues, there's the question: Is it okay for people to distribute the actual kernel of Windows XP in a zip file?

But this problem isn't just with boot screens. Logon screens often come with a replacement logonui.exe. It's the literal logonui.exe on your system that someone has modified and reuploaded. That's why WinCustomize's logon section uses LogonStudio because it has its own format .logonxp which allows people to make logons that don't have to include the actual logonui.exe.

And many "visual styles" that use .msstyles format include a file called shellstyles.dll which, again, is the literal .dll from a person's Windows directory.

In all these examples, these files are copyrighted by Microsoft. And I don't mean copyright in the same sense that an OS skin might be. I mean they are literally the code for the program. If Apple, for intance, gets mad about Aqua style skins on occasion, you can imagine how they would react if people were passing around the actual system files from MacOS X.  Microsoft must be aware of this stuff but so far doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

As a skinning site, we want to have the kinds of sections people want to have.  And in fact, every other major skinning site already has sections for these kinds of things.  So we are torn on this situation. Our inclination is to put up a boot section since so many people want them and every other skin site already has them. But we're uneasy in doing this because of the potential copyright issues.

So that's where we are. Please no responses with "I don't know why anyone would want to replace their boot screen" or "We should put section X up instead." I think we can all agree that there is a large demand for boot screen. The question is what is the best course of action.

38,757 views 70 replies
Reply #51 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Crae: so invariably any app that succeeds in changing the bootscreen must hack the .exe at some point in some fashion? Ah, well.

But at any rate, there's evidently no need to host screens that include the hacked .exe if images alone will do and such proggies (or the user manually) can apply them.

(BTW, FB, a rainlendar library would be nice too. My vote. )
Reply #52 from WinCustomize Forums Top
alicizmar makes a good point. Altering system .dlls would void the Windows customer service agreement, wouldn't it? Not that it is a big deal... 'service' *snort*, but Stardock might not feel good about officially espousing the practice.

I'll reiterate that this need not hinge on IP. I'm not sure how you can distribute .exe files, hacked kernel files, without taking a large risk for users as well. Short of that, or Stardock creating a secure system for swapping them, it would just be a low-quality image section that few people would use. One also, as a 'flat'-image section, that would have to be moderated for mature content if not... well... other stuff.

...and what is the big deal about trillian??
WindowBlinds - Free yourself of the default settings, customize your desktop.
Reply #53 from WinCustomize Forums Top
BakerStreet-"...and what is the big deal about trillian??"
It's some app for chatting with people on multiple kinds of messengers (MSN,Yahoo,AIM,etc.) using one program (I think,I may be getting this confused with something with a similar title,but I think that's it?)And apparantly it's skinnable.
I don't care for that,since I don't need it.
Reply #54 from WinCustomize Forums Top
well... there is a program i found a while ago (resource editor, resource hacker or something... check out chaninja's tutorials on how to modify the download, delete and copy windows animations for his chaninja skin (rc2.1 i think...) he mentions it) neways, this program (registered version) allows to to modify your boot screen, then compile an installer which will only copy the bitmap file which you changed, not the rest of the microsoft copyrighted part, and allow you to distribute it... I'lll get back on the name of the program, or if ne0one know of it, just post it.
Reply #55 from WinCustomize Forums Top
btw... the good part of the program is that the compiled installer is a lot smaller than having to put the whole boot
Reply #56 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Frogboy, surely it's only piracy if someone loses out? I mean, come on, you can't even use these files unless you already have the operating system. So it duplicates compiled code . . . that the people already have. It's just not a big deal.
Reply #57 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Once again, though, Frogboy wouldn't want to risk his relationship/reputation with Microsoft should they choose to take any action.
Just because they haven't done it before doesn't mean they won't start now.
Reply #59 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Well I think the basic issue is that distributing DLLs and EXE's that don't belong to you is just plain wrong.


How can we object to rips wile people are distributing EXEs and DLLs made by other people?


The problem is two fold:


1) WinCustomize loses visitors to other skinning sites, particularly ones that don't support Stardock's apps and Stardock is the one who funds WinCustomize.


2) Microsoft has never done anything to stop boot screens (or msstyles) which has given people the impression that Microsoft is "okay" with it.


We want to do the right thing. But what is the right thing? The desires, needs of skinners and uesrs vs. the rights of Microsoft who may or may not care about this issue.

Reply #60 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I'd like to think Microsoft is taking note of how we are fixing our OS so they can get ideas on what people would prefer (for example,they may allow full customization of the entire OS in the next Windows in even simpler ways than we do it). This way,they can improve the design and get even more people buying their software than before.
Therefore they can make good use of our tweaking to find loopholes in their system,so they can form ways to make to make it more stable too.
Microsoft,are you listening? Simple customization of the whole OS would be nice! Especially if the simple process is BUILT-IN!
Anyway,that could be why nothing has been said-They want to keep us pondering until their next OS.
Reply #61 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think the proper route would be not to distribute the boot screens, or MS styles. but in the case of the MS Styles, I think a good idea would be to create a utitly that could convert them to WBA format (if it would be remotely possible). As for the boot screens they aren't that important (Window Blinds and Desktop X do all of the customizing anyone should ever need Stardock has seen to that) and to create software to change the boot screen would not be a good idea, simply because I have used the software from that one nobody of a company and the first time a downloaded a critical update my computer wouldn't boot, accept that I had backed up my original files. Also bandwidth will become an issue since they will be more like bare images (the the wallpaper section). People would upload pure junk, and the moderators would be in hell. Plus people would make alot of boot screens with copyrighted images from movies, tv, and such, why becuase boot screens are very easy to make.
Reply #62 from WinCustomize Forums Top
For the sake off all of us, let us try to stay CLEAN as much as possible. Meaning, please have no exe's or dll's as downloads on the site.
For bootscreens, maybe only have the screens as BMP etc and have users use programs such as BootXP to import these screens.

And, for bootscreens itself, eventhough I was asked not to comment. WHY USE DIFFERENT BOOTSCREENS , YOU ONLY SEE THEM A FEW SECONDS A DAY. USUALLY IT IS THE MOMENT I GET COFFEE. BUT, I SEE MY DESKTOP ALL DAY WITH IT'S WB, ODOCK, IP, ETC.

Regards,

Kees M (TC.Miller)
Reply #64 from WinCustomize Forums Top
OK I got a better idea.How about we make progress BMPs and Images that are specially made for seeing on bootup(640 x 480,16 color but still looks great )instead of being risky and posting EXEs? Then get an appropriate program to put the stuff together and *voila!* cool bootscreen without fear of a 'bad one' .Now as for those who have lower OS versions (Win9x,2000),we should have a separate boot BMP section for them too.
I still don't know any apps to install the older OS BMPs safely though.
Reply #65 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I'm not understanding .. you had 1100 votes .. and I'd imagine not even half of them wanted bootsreens ( doesn't logonXP do that anyhow? ) although it is the most wanted program it isn't a vast difference between boot screens and the 2nd place finisher ( trillian ). I'd take the lesser of the chores and add Trillian skins. Then I wouldn't need to head off to DeviantArt or wherever to find them.
Reply #66 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I do not really understand the confusion or maybe it is too easy to get lost in the "gray". Rips are rips whether it is an .exe, .dll or a skin that is being taken without written approval. Let us not manufacture rip justifications.
Reply #67 from WinCustomize Forums Top
logonxp just works for the logon screen. SD has no app for changing bootscreens for reasons FB noted.
Reply #68 from WinCustomize Forums Top
one day the site uses to much bandwidth, the next day it is loosing visitors because it does not have a bootscreen section.

as you often state that Stardock has good relations with Microsoft then just ask them if it´s ok with them. then think about if you are willing to pay for the bandwidth (usually more than 2 MB a file) and also think how much that stuff has to do with skinning anyways (99% of all submissions you will get will be nothing else than wallpapers with some kind of XP typo).