Op ornot op you That is the question

As I am noob with QoT, I cant really say, but it would definitely depend on the build you would be using (Ground Spikes or not).

But for Occulus, yes it would definitely be OP. 1 chain lightining and intantly full mana. and Occulus is keen on spamming chain lightning so....yeah.

You do realise though, that this if this item was available in generals, that minion damage would recharge your mana when enabling BoTS, do you? (lets say QoT with shamblers for example)

They would both be overpowered. Infinite mana and monks don't mix.

Yes, but one character shouldn't have infinite mana and monks. You should only be able to regen 1 of them in a 1v1 fight.

because this game is balanced around 1v1.  Anything larger than 1v1 (and most 1v1's) and you have a general on your team to give you a monk.  

Every game is 3v3 cataract.

9/10 of the games i've played with queen, she goes to the mana flag and fights one versus one with an enemy. A 1v1 fight is not so different from a 3v3 fight, the only difference is that AoE becomes much more effective and you absolutely have to call targets and time debuffs and interrupts. Right now the queen is awesome in 3v3 fights because she can shield allies, slow enemies, reduce enemy armor, and do huge aoe damage. If she had BotS she could just proc, spike wave, shield four or five times, spike wave again over and over. She should have to run out of mana the same way other characters run out of health.

Oh, she is awesome now is she? I remember every other post about her refering to her as the weakest of all the demigods and couldn't be played competatively, or she sucks because she doesn't scale well with the others and can't stack mana or damage items etc... etc...

She's weak because she doesn't have the mana to keep herself shielded 100% of the time and spam her great, mana intensive abilities. Your post asks if she'd be OP with blade of the serpent, which would fix all of her mana problems, and the answer is yes. Queen would be the strongest demigod if she had unlimited mana/BotS. The reason TB, Rook, Reg, and DA aren't OP with it is because they can't block damage to make up for their low health.

I find the balance of 1v1 to be horrible, try fighting a decent erebus with a reg. The regulus will get owned.

The game was not designed for 1v1 guys.

Its a strategy team based RTS, thus it is designed around team work so at least 2v2 games.

The early game is all about 1v1, no one can afford teleports and you lose xp by doubling in a lane. The early game decides the middle and late game, hence the game IS all about 1v1. That's why the best dgs are the ones that are good 1v1.

Except Queen is fantastic early game 1v1 :-/

Ummm no, giants decide the late game, and middle game is determined by tele ganks which are influenced by early game

BUT

as hedgie said

the problem with queen is that past level ten when everyone only needs two helms at most or BotS she needs at least 3 or 2 w/ magus and even then queen has no chasing abilities thus at any point past 1v1 queen sux cause of mana issues. People say spam spike + shield atm its not spam its just spike or shield. Now with BotS idk she might become op early game lane control but after that it would make her a 1.5 imo  

No, giants just shift the dynamics and tiers of the demigods. When both teams have giants giants aren't the end-all solution to all your problems, until you get a port.

Queen is a lot like Sedna in that the current meta demands that they are the one getting currency+regen and "supporting" the team when really if a Queen and Sedna are easily tier 1-1.5 when they aren't coughing up blood for that early 2400 early-game gold. People just play them wrong :-/ Now, I'm not that great of a Queen player but I have seen several awesome Queens and they have several things in common:

On Cataract, the most effective Queen is the one that goes to the mana side, not the one that goes to the HP side. Why?

1- If you shield people at the HP flag, they just target whoever isn't shielded. If you burn all your mana keeping both poeple shielded, you lose, go home.

2- Queen farms like an Ooze Beast, and a TB. This means that if she isn't sharing a lane and instead is switching XP/Mana she is the highest level in the game. Shield IV laughs out loud at all level 7 abilities.

3- Minions (specifically, idol minions. Mostly just archers and monks). Minions are most effective early-game (Demolishers instead of Currency). Queen has a huge benefit from minions because of Ground Spikes. High levels means that people aren't popping her shield in seconds, which means she can afford to open up and blast spikes. This means that you really can't fight a Queen in a creep-lane unless you have massive AoE yourself.

A massive level advantage overcomes her mid-game issue which is that abilities pop her bubble too fast and she doesn't have the mana to keep it up. End-game Queen is something you can't leave alone because her Spikes will push a creep wave like a TB and a Queen will gut your base in 30 seconds and then drop your citadel in 10. 

Once the game hits the level 17-20 artifact stage, however, Queen really has a hard time (in my opinion. I've never seen an Artifact Queen so I can't really say). She does have the poor-man's Acclimation with her Queen of Thorns abiltiy but ranged characters never benefit as much from artifacts as melee, even with Ground Spikes. She can only fight a demigod who is foolish to follow her into a creep wave (which she will then fuck soooo hard). If she is laned against someone with decent AoE... the creep waves won't really budge and so you've kept the Queen at bay.

On Prison, Queen is much stronger because there is really only one flag worth locking: the Gold Flag, there are two creep waves which a Queen can farm really easily, porting-away is something that is hard to do because the whole team moves around as a whole and you not having an interrupt isn't as big of a deal. Plus, AoE abilities are strong in that kind of play style.

Levi, Queen doesn't have the same mana issues, but I don't think that she really competes with Sedna who REALLY takes off on Levi.

this is what i mean, whoever gets there first

"

this is what i mean, whoever gets there first"

Against equal teams and low-kills this happens roughly the same time. Maybe one or two waves difference at most.

Yes.

Let me be a little more specific, whoever gets there first with at least a 4-5 min advantage wins, it doesn't matter if your team has da, queen, and reg if you can get giants a significant amount of time before your opponent

Hah! BoTS would not help queen as much as you think it would.

Mana regen is a problem, true... but BoTS does not help how fast you can blow through mana in a battle as QoT.

The bad "Old Way" Queen- 1 exchange

Shield IV- 840
Spike IV- 750
Spike IV- 750
Wave I- 750
Shield IV- 840

3930 mana

The good "New Way" Queen- 1 exchange

Shield I- 400
Spike IV- 750
Spike IV- 750
Wave I- 750
Mulch II- 250
Shield I- 400

3300 mana (less, but really, this is still insane considering this takes about 15 seconds)

Now.... show us a reasonable BoTS item loadout that gives level 10 QoT 4K HPs (the absolute minimum for a high level game) and enough mana to not only have 1 exchange, but to maybe fire off a Shambler III and a shield or two afterwords. To pull it off you need to do BoTS in the middle of an exchange, and a creep wave has to be there to fill you up. You cannot expect to have these conditions for every confrontation with DGs.

Mana regen is nice... but the reality is QoT needs a large mana pool to be able to blow through all those skills in 15 seconds... AND THEN have the mana to stay in the lane and not get thrown back to base anyways, so you will still need helms.

BoTF is still better....

What Queenie needs to be IMBA is a mana version of Crimson Vial.

Was thinking it would be cool to make brillant babuble work like this with the 10% XP bonus. Then I thought about QoT and promptly smacked myself in the back of the head.

Lord-orion, you SERIOUSLY underestimate BotS' capability to restore mana.

Ground Spikes 4 costs 750 mana to deal 625 damage in a large area

If you hit 1 target, which really, should you be using a giant AoE ability to hit one enemy? you will get back 468.75 mana

If you hit a creep wave with 8 minotaurs and 2 archers, that's 4687.5 mana in ONE SECOND.

Then, you will deal more damage to the lower armored survivors netting an extra 400-2000 mana depending on minions and creeps nearby (QoT's AoE AA rocks with BotS)

If you can hit every other creep wave with ground spikes and BotS, you will be fine without any mana helms, although I would suggest vlemish after you get 4 health items and citadel upgrades.

So here's how an exchange would go, summon shambler, shield, open form, BotS, ground spikes, back at full mana, shield again, fight, push them back, apply shield as needed, ground spike another creep wave with BotS...

Any general with BotS would be op imo. It just a rediculous thought for a general to have full mana all of the time. Generals should be able to spam like tb...

Oh god, I thought I was the only sane person left on Earth there for a couple of days.

Mmmmmmmm, mana......