Illegal Immigrants Are Humans, Too

meanwhile SoCal is renamed NoMex

from JoeUser Forums
Maybe I ought to clarify a few things, just to remedy a few misunderstandings. Earlier, while writing an article on how the Book of Revelations was coming to California, I made a poke at 'a plague of immigrants', which seemed to be misconstrued to some folks as a 'lack of value for human life'. Not true at all. In fact, I've donated a lot of time and work into contributing to my neighborhood via volunteer work and through education and service to others. And that was regardless of who was in need. Oh, and my neighborhood happens to be over 80% Hispanic. Not that it should matter, right?

But I'm jaded. And rightfully so. I'm tired of people coming to this country and saying, "Me, Me, Me", in various languages, of course. And I'm tired of other folks commenting on the American Indian atrocities, as if I came to the West with my repeating rifle in one hand, while saddled up on my painted mustang, eager to repel the barbarous Apaches and Navajos, so that I may stake a claim to some land. Yes, what happened to the Natives was horrible; BEYOND horrible. But I'm talking about the here and now; the regulations to this country; the reason why illegal immigration is taking its toll on those who rightfully have earned their stake in this country. Besides, for the select few that have lamented the American Native atrocities: I don't see YOU donating money, property, or reparations to a select few bands or tribes. I don't see you learning the concepts of Native Law, and helping to restore glory. So shut up already.

Anyway, back to what I was originally jaded about. I'm VERY angry with the amount of illegal aliens infesting the country. It is a wonderful thing to help our global neighbors. It is the mark of the respect for human life. But are you willing to give up what you have for the sake of others? I doubt it. There are many people in this nation that devote their lives to helping others, and they are, without doubt, the most commendable individuals. But they are rare.

Here's an editorial that I have basically summed-up and added to. It was written in the San Diego Union-Tribune by Joseph Neglia of Escondido, and it is by no means word-for-word, but you get the general idea.

How about you sneak across the border of San Diego into Tijuana, and suddenly declare that you must have english-speaking doctors, english-speaking teachers, and english-speaking lawyers. You declare that you must have free money, free food, free foodstuffs to keep your pregnant wife healthy. You must have free legal access, and the right to speak out against the country you just invaded. Feel free to wave the U.S. flag prominently wherever you are, and declare your love for the United States, even though you are now in Mexico. Make sure you stick that U.S. Flag up on your vehicle and drive it around, even though you have no license. Demand a license, and the right to vote. Pool your resources with other Americans, and lobby for more American-Mexicans to hold office. Reproduce. A LOT. Have a huge family, and have the Mexican government pay for their support. Make sure you use the working Mexican people's tax dollars until their budget is sucked dry. OOh, and demand that Mexican police officials learn English.

How about that? Next time one of you 'lovers of human life' decide that I am insensitive, keep in mind that I actively work to educate the children of the illegal aliens, and I serve the poor of San Diego, I serve my country, and I love to work hard for the things that I experience and have. I love human life, but I live in the real world, and I will fight for what I work for. If you are so inclined to help out this world, go join the Peace Corps, or the Red Cross, or one of the many international aid groups, and make a difference, instead of sitting at your desk, writing a comment that says, "You are, like, sooooo insensitive to humans". Educate yourself. But don't ever try to play me off as some jackass that doesn't care about the people of the world.

Oh, and I already know that this nation is comprised of people from all over the planet, so spare me that comment. I believe in asylum, work visas, and green cards. I don't believe in swimming across the Rio Grande, and general sublimation into the United States. It may help one individual, but could hurt dozens of others. I believe in lending a hand to the needy, and raising the quality of life to the poor and desperate, but it does not entail a welcome sign and a bucket of cash at the points of entry into this country. It entails an education and respect for our history and culture (yes, the U.S. has a culture), and it involves a willingness to contribute, and that starts with abiding by the law, just like every citizen here already.


7,584 views 24 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
I never took it as a debasing of humans. That is part of the problem with political correctness. There are too many immigrants, of course that is what our whole country is because we slaughtered the indigenous peoples of this country. Everyone one of us that was not born Native American here is an immigrant. But at some point you have to ask yourselves: Should we shut the doors? At least until this mess is figured out heehee.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
this article is right on the money. It doesn't say anything about "closing the borders" to others or anything. The more the merrier just come here and learn to live here and contribute! Don't suck us dry you are so right.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
I agree completely with your article. It is funny how Americans are being criticized for what the French, British, Mexicans, etc. would do if we went to their country and demanded that our culture be above all others. I also want to add that another reason I do not condone people entering America illegally is that it's a slap in the face for all those immigrants that go through the steps to become U.S. citizens.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Just this morning I received an article highlighting the american immigration service's yearly green card lottery has closed it's doors for this years quotas. Many applying are illegal immigrants already living there_taking work from Americans that don't want to pick fruit or...
The US needs immigrants to take the work away from snobby- Americans who some think they are too good to do such dememaning work. Foreigners work cheaper and big biz likes that_profits rise, higher output less pay. Remember big biz is encouraged to use cheaper, foreign human resources, 'diversified employers'
Immigrants pay a lot of taxes and are usually grateful to be in their new land.
I am anyways.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
'demeaning' oops, how demeaning!
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
In regards to E. Macy's comment, I truly respect what you are saying. Immigration is the heartbeat of our country, as well as the source of most of our history. I'm sure that many immigrants are grateful to be in their new land, but I'm referring in particular to the illegals that demand and demand. To me, any person who is willing to educate his or herself, learn the culture, and contribute to society reserves the right to practice our freedoms here. First and foremost is the whole 'free speech' song and dance, and it is one of the most powerful. But if someone is here illegally, then those rights should never be granted, with exception to due process of law. My history is one of 'Welsh Whaling captain marries into Polynesian culture', so my family is quite diverse and pretty new to the country as well. Only we were pretty much assimilated by the U.S. (see: 50th state of the union), so my family's history is a little different than the average Coming-To-America story. The United States simply came to us.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I recently read an article that said that by tightening the borders that we are keeping more illegal immigrants in than out. That they are staying longer because it is more dangerous to cross the Rio Grande. Of course, you have to feel for people that will take such risks for the opportunities that we all take for granted here. A wonderful book that will put a human face to this issue is Caramelo by Sandra Cisneros. Of course, this family is not illegal but I am not certain at what point they became American Citizens. I believe when the father enlisted in the army during WWII. My dad is Mexican but a legal citizen. He is proud of his culture and his heritage and so am I. I do not speak Spanish and my mom was white but it is still part of who I am. You may be surprised how many of the Mexican's that you look at as illegal are actually United States citizens who were born here the same as you.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Exactly as Poi Dog states. Anyone who comes into the country, illegally or not, and tries to change everything for themselves, should get a swift kick to the pants and sent home. I don't go into Mexico and demand that, or Canada, or South America..

If you're going to migrate to the US, atleast know the language. Everyone is trying to enforce different languages because they came from diverse backgrounds. That's noble, maybe, but it's also arrogant and insufferable. I'm not saying to vacation somewhere you need to be fluent in the language..But who here goes to a foreign country without atleast learning to ask Basic questions..where's the restroom? Hotel?..etc.,. yada yada..

But come on. We are an English speaking people. If you're coming to America to live and work, atleast speak English!
I don't expect Mexicans to speak English in Mexico..but I do expect them to, here. Respect the house you have entered. America is my house, too!
This has turned into a rant..I hope it makes sense.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
To: Locamama - I'm simply surprised by the comment, "You may be surprised how many of the Mexicans you look at as illegal are actually United States citizens who were born here the same as you." First of all, you are assuming a lot. Are you insinuating that I profile spanish-speaking peoples as Mexican, and then as illegal (on some sort of grounds that I have already predetermined?). I never said I was born in the United States, either. The first mistake that I learned as a child in preschool is to never ever call somebody by a nationality unless you are certain. For instance, I had a boss who was from Puerto Rico, and one of my coworkers called him a Cuban, and it really made him angry. In Hawai'i, if you mix up a Japanese person with a Korean or Chinese person, you're considered rude and ignorant. And the same goes for those who are illegal and not. If they're deported, they're illegal. If they have no right to work here, and snuck across the border, they're illegal. They could be from the United Kingdom and speak English and only English, but if they came on a work visa, and it expired, and they stay, then they're illegal. This has nothing to do exclusively with Mexicans. I just happen to live 2 miles from the border of Mexico, and therefore have first-hand experience with a LOT of illegal Mexican immigrants. That includes some intense discrimination, and I even have been a part of the Hispanic culture long enough to learn a lot of Spanish. But to conclude: I don't profile people, except on the basis of ignorance/intelligence, self-reliability, and accountability. Thank you for your comment, and its nice to see somebody who keeps ties with his or her culture.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Poi Dog, you are right. I was assuming too much and you know when you ASSUME it makes an ASS of U and ME. I learned that from my seventh grade teacher - lol! My point still stands that many people think some citizens are not legal when in actuality they are. I am in Texas and you see lots of Mexicans but I don't know their status. I just get tired of the gripe of how illegal immigrants are coming here and taking all the jobs when in actuality most of the jobs they are doing are jobs that the locals wouldn't do on a bet. And lets look at all the businesses that profit from illegal labor. That is where the crack down should be. JMHO.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Locamama, we know the businesses that profit from illegal labor: retail stores (including Walmart), hotels, restaurants, any service industry where someone is required to clean up. However, it is much easier to target and deport someone without money or legal representation than it is to take on a corporation.

Although the recent Walmart case was high profile (over 2000 employees of the cleaning service that Walmart used were lacking in appropriate documentation) there are plenty of businesses that have made a conscious decision to empoly illegal aliens. I saw a special regarding hotels in the US Southwest that hire illegal aliens exclusively for their cleaning service. I would hazard the guess that the same would be true for hotels in New York City, Miami, etc. Why not? The positions are probably hard to fill (I wouldn't look forward to changing the sheets in a hotel room, for example), the workers are cheap and in plentiful supply and "labor negotiations" consist of having them deported.

It should be noted that the American economy didn't used to be this way. Henry Ford, a man who knew something about building an economic base for his business, paid the highest wages in the auto business provided his workers A) became citizens and B) went to school. His idea was to build an educated, commited workforce that would be loyal to Ford Motor Company for generations. What a concept!
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
This is ridiculous. When it comes to people, we take care of each other. That's the way it's always been and heaven help us if it changes. But guess what; countries are not entities that are attempting to carry forth the individual banner. The Prerogative of a country is to benefit its citizens.

If you or I have a friend we want to help out, that's cool with me and it should be cool with you. But I don't care about Mexico or the UK or any country in the world except the US. Why? Because countries weren't meant to 'look out for each other.' They were made to trade and make each other rich. Washington had the idea when he set up the US for isolationism. But of course, somebody dropped the ball along the way.

People are at the forefront of my life. I'd give my life and honor for any friend without asking a question. I'd also give my life for my country, because it's done what it has for those I love. But if somebody asks me to die for Mexico as a political entity, I'll tell them to find somebody else for the job. So don't talk about closing borders, and don't talk about immigration as some collective whole, because the only thing that matters is purely at a personal level.

~Dan
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
This is ridiculous. When it comes to people, we take care of each other. That's the way it's always been and heaven help us if it changes. But guess what; countries are not entities that are attempting to carry forth the individual banner. The Prerogative of a country is to benefit its citizens.

If you or I have a friend we want to help out, that's cool with me and it should be cool with you. But I don't care about Mexico or the UK or any country in the world except the US. Why? Because countries weren't meant to 'look out for each other.' They were made to trade and make each other rich. Washington had the idea when he set up the US for isolationism. But of course, somebody dropped the ball along the way.

People are at the forefront of my life. I'd give my life and honor for any friend without asking a question. I'd also give my life for my country, because it's done what it has for those I love. But if somebody asks me to die for Mexico as a political entity, I'll tell them to find somebody else for the job. So don't talk about closing borders, and don't talk about immigration as some collective whole, because the only thing that matters is purely at a personal level.

~Dan
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Illegal immigration began with the agriculture, particularly in California needing its cheap labor. It is a myth that Americans are above demeaning jobs--the booming temp agencies show this. Nevertheless, the talk of illegal applies only to Mexicans. What about the Cuban exile take over of Miami while the Haitian boat people are denied admission. If you're going to be against illegal immigration, be consistent. And by the way wasn't NAFTA supposed to solve this problem?--in jest.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Apparently not proud enough to stay and make your country into a democracy.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
You have written a very insightful article and the editorial you quoted was good. The problem is that this country is very rich and full of opportunity. Things may be going downhill--such as wages and the percentage of upward mobility, but for a hard working, intelligent person from a poor corrupt country with very few jobs--this is heaven. So no matter what we do--there will always be people who will come in one way or another. This happens in Europe, as well as the United States. I met a Cuban in Costa Rica, who came in without papers. A lot of Nicaraguans go to Costa Rica also. This is a global problem.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
You're absolutely right, NAFTA was supposed to fix the problem, with supposed being the operative word. I believe what happened was americans lost their jobs to NAFTA agreements, however, when the jobs were exported, wages in the countries where these companies relocated to remained the same, they just created jobs. That may be the reason why so many of these people have migrated to America. What is so hard to believe is that agencies such as banks are accepting EIN to open accounts, even though the EIN is only for tax purposes. It is also described that americans will not settle for low paying wages, guess what, if I need heat in my home, food to eat, and couldn't find anything else for which I am qualified, I would take on the low paying job. What really gets to me is that in a sense we are perpetuating the notion that it is ok to break the rules. As americans with real SSNs if we cannot pay our bills we claim our constitutional right to file for either Chapter 7 or Chapter 13, and that takes care of our credit. I know of families where all of them work and still cannot afford to buy a home, however, illegal immigrants, using an EIN can purchase a new vehicle (even though they do not have a State issued license), buy a home, live the american dream that so many can't even dream about.
In my job I have talked to illegal immigrants who are getting cataract surgery and other types of surgery paid for by US tax payers and Medicaid. I don't begrudge anyone the right to work, but come on, this is too much, if I need surgery myself or anyone in my family, guess what? I have a deductible to meet from my insurance company, if I don't pay it, I get slapped with a judgement. So, I say NO to issuing visas to anyone who has broken the rules and the laws of this country. Due process must be followed in order to attain residency and then citizenship, I had to do it, what makes all of them different?
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
One very important point I forgot to mention, should congress pass the president's proposal, kiss good-bye, higher education grants for american whites, american blacks, mexican americans, etc. Illegal immigrants cannot attend school past the 12th grade due to their status in this country, however, if they are issued a visa, even for three years as the proposal reads, they will be able to apply for grants, loans, etc. And being considered by Federal law as minorities... well can't tell you the rest, we will just have to wait and see what develops, only time will tell.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
Tony - I found your comments intriguing, and worthy of more research and reading. If you have any particular links, articles, or references, I would find them most helpful. I have worked side by side with many illegal immigrants back in my heyday in the kitchens of restaurants, and it was amazing how many benefits they could receive, and how the workplace even encouraged their illegal status. Many were paid under the table, and others received perks that many in this country would be fortunate to receive. I used to be more silent on this issue, because many people confuse pro-U.S. Citizen's rights as a blow against humanity, and how the U.S. is an immigrant refuge, etc, etc. They seem to confuse the lines between earning and having. I EARN my benefits and my rights, and I expect those who are benefitting from our society to contribute in return. Is it that hard of a concept?
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
There seems a noticeable absence from some 'neo...' quarters of this blog site lately. No matter, I'm sure Rush Limbaugh supports the Immigration Policy of President Bush completely. I mean he is a Republican isn't he, and this is what Republicans do to Americans. I mean if Clinton did this, he'd be a great Republican too, wouldn't he?er, I mean... I say ditto,ditto,dittoes to all the comments here. This is the true reaction of Americans to the anti American Pro-tyranny actions of this President. It is betrayal of all Americans, and as a 'Native' American I only speak for myself (we do it that way) but I have to believe any limit of the number of people into our land is in our benefit.



Here's my solution to the Immigration problem and it was condemned when I made it back in the 90's: Every illegal caught entering our Country is placed in a tent city. There they will work for their food and lodging until processing is done as to their status. If they learn and adopt the principles of our Nation, just some simple stuff like patriotism, our language, allegiance to our Country (possibly service in military or other inculcating institution), Law and Order, they may apply for Citizenship. Those who won't do this are put in military transport vehicles and driven by our military 1000 miles into Mexico and dropped off randomly in various locations with all the property they had when caught. This way they won't be back tomorrow (some even being caught twice a day) and they can work for the people of Mexico to pay their way home. I bet the illegal entry would stop in 30 days tops.



If we condone the tyranny of the Mexican government and allow it to infect our Democratic-Republic, I guarantee we will not have the sympathy of these immigrants when th e day comes WE need help. We should seal that border with guns and tell Fox, "Liberate your Nation or die in the revolt which is sure to follow our change in foreign policy. Besides, where were you when we needed help in the Middle East (Mexico and Canada both opposed us)?" And then this tyrant has the gall to say to the press, "we're going for more. We're going for more. " in his planned talk with Bush. UNNNNNHHH! Junior go get my --- I'll take care of this.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Your articles are amazing to say the least, your knowledge on the issue is immense and very impressive.
I am sorry to say that I don't have links to websites or bibliography to give to you for further research. I know all this by living it on a daily basis. I graduated from the State University in Mexico. I lived in Mexico for 25 years Spanish was my first language. I saw many things growing up, for instance, my uncle who was (and still is) just a Resident Alien Card holder would give his SSN to other men to use it to work in the US, these men were illegal aliens and since I was too young to comprehend what was going on I did not know the reason why he would allow other people to use his name and SSN to use in the US.

It wasn't until I came to the US to live that I understood why he was giving his name and SSN to these guys to work it, it was then that I understood that while he was working his chicken farm in Mexico, his Social Security Account was growing by leaps and bounds. Then many years later, his son married an immigrant, at this time she filed a petition for him to come to the US, well INS wouldn't allow him to come in to America and stay until everything had been approved, anyway, he had a border crossing card, got a permit to come to visit in the US, settled in Houston and voila started to work using his dad's name and SSN.... this lasted for about ten years or better, until he got his own green card and SSN.

A few years later uncle petitioned for aunt to come to the US.... she got her green card and the same month she got it she applied for SSA, and guess what? Still today she is getting a Social Security check, keep in mind, she never worked a day in her life in the US...

Same scenario goes on and on in Mexico, many green card holders do not want to stay or work in the US, still they refuse to turn in their green cards, instead they give their SSNs to other people to work in the US thus qualifying them for tax returns and Social Security when they reach that age, relaxing in Mexico, laid-back life style, as many of them used to tell me, "I don't want to live like all of you in -el otro lado- or the other side as America is referred to by many in Mexico, by an alarm clock. You people live by the alarm clock, not me, I am not stupid."

Here in America I have been asked to lie under oath, I've been offered money to file petitions for people I don't even know, all I have to do is say that they are my next of kin. What these solicitors don't know is that there is a Biographical Information form filled out by the applicant when the process starts for residency status.
I truly could go on and on. I am sorry these people have to leave their homes and their families behind, but guess what, Mexico has been robbed by many presidents who are today living it up, look at president Salinas de Gortari, his brother Raul is still incarcerated in Mexico. Will their situation worsen or get better? Who knows, I just know that it is up to the mexican government to improve conditions, why stick America with the bill?

Many senior citizens are struggling, living on only 600.00 per month, wondering how in the world they are going to pay for medications not covered by Medicare, asking why the cost of Medicare is so high.
You and I, we have co-pays and deductibles to cover, I work two jobs to make ends meet and be able to make my payments on time.

As I mentioned in the beginning, I don't have websites or anything of that sort to give you to look into or do further research, all I can give you is what I live daily and what I lived daily while I lived in Mexico. Again, I think your articles are amazing and my hat is off to you.

Tony
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
As usual, I always post and remember some fact afterwards. And so here it goes, mid year 2003, employers who employ ten or more individuals received a letter from the Social Security Administration warning them: "Social Security Number does not match." or "Social Security Number has never been issued by the Social Security Administration." These employers, many of them are restaurants (as in fast food), have refused to observe these letters, they have allowed employees to change their names and use different SSNs in order to keep them, these employees are here illegaly and make up their own SSNs, whether it matches Joe Blow's number, who lives in Colorado and is a doctor. Years later when IRS contacts Joe Blow and tells him he failed to report earnings from another State is when the innocent party finds out.

I've seen it with my own eyes, white or black people go in to apply for a position and they are told that they are fully staffed. A latino, who can hardly speak English goes in to inquire about the job openings is given an application to fill out, many a time I have been tempted to open my mouth and say that they are discriminating, however, I have remained quiet, just a spectator, watching. I know I will have my chance to show these people what they are doing wrong, so when it is said that Americans are now willing to settle for "low paying jobs" all I have to say is that evidently these people (commentators) have never been hungry or have had overdue bills, have never been cold or have never been threatened with eviction or disconnection of utilities.

So, America must look in their back yard first and take care of their own, all those people sitting in nursing homes, or those fortunate to sit with their families at their homes, those who more than self their country loved.... to all of those people who made this the great nation it is and believe me when I say it, many american families still bow their heads to pray... for a better tomorrow.

Tony
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Your insights are all the proof Americans need to see the intention in passing this Act. Bush knows that these people do this, that they work without paying taxes, commit crimes on reporting, that the employeres break the law and discriminate against Americans in favor of illegals, so why does he do it? To profit at our expense. The plan calls for bringing all wages the world over into line at one slave wage level, and this is how it is being done. They MUST erase National baoundaries, destroy Patriotism, make all people beholden to the same system. The NWO is not Capitalism at its worst, but Socialism at its most effective, and that is as a fascist state. If business is the body which controls Governmental legislation, and it does we all know, then any act passed is fascist, serving to benefit business first. Business, by the observations Tony makes, does not naturally do right and create a good economy by nature. It must be controlled by laws that establish standards of behavior acceptable to the PEOPLE first. By this, Bush creates a business employment environment which runs amuck and does so to the detriment of workers rights, environmental law, etc. They've got babies being born without skulls in the "free-trade" zones on Mex-Amer. border because there is no enforcement of American environmental law there. Business owners don't care about the law there, so what makes anyone think they do anywhere else? They'll hire an illegal for tax benefits, have to provide no medical, or other benefit, and can fire them with no disability or SS benefit ever being claimed. Then the illegal lays in a hospital with a life condition rendering that person unable to work and who pays for it? We do, not the business which ran laws into the ground, commited crimes in hiring, gave no two-f--- for anyone and is un-accountable because the likes of a Bush condones the behavior. Remember the number of Reps. and Sens. who also have illegal maids and servants who they know are breaking the law but who will not report them. I am going to put up a blog on this and an example of use of illegals that will rock you. Go to 'Barings and American Gold exports'.
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top

My husband is attempting to immigrate legally from the UK. I doubt many actually realize how expensive and complicated the process truly is


I do.  I can verify that what LW is saying is actually the case.  I had to do the same thing 10 years ago, and it hasn't gotten any better since then.  We even had to go, after we'd been married for 8 years, to an interview to prove we were in a 'bonafide' marriage.  I had to take tax documents, birth certificates, you name it...to prove that we were still married.


Just another reason that I want to take US citizenship, to get away from the INS.