Yep, Italy is a great place to visit. It's a bit chaotic, but nobody seems to mind. For example,  many bus stops in Rome don't have a schedule written down there because the bus would never be on time anyway. I think you would really enjoy it and have a good time. I wouldn't really worry about breaking laws there eithr, totally agree with Nitro on that.

PS My aunt used to be a nun in Rome and I visited her there a couple of times - it's one of the most amazing cities I know.

Here in Ireland bus stops have a schedule for a DIFFERENT STOP.

It simply says something like "83a leaves whatever station/village at the following times:" and then gives a table with times. Where that station or village is, which part of the village the bus is leaving at the given time, or how long it takes the bus to reach the stop is not mentioned.

In Ireland, city planners always try to emulate other countries in a cargo-cult manner.

Yeah it was the 'in' thing to hate on bush or to bash bush.  Especially in academia.  I don't know if anybody in JU knows this but academia has gone crazy liberial.  When I would bring up my views (most of you tend to know them) the come back of my grad school years to me would be 'you are so closed minded and ignorant.'  I don't think I have ever seen as many posters, shirts, or other articles bash one president as much as bush got bashed. 

A story that makes my point about obama.  A friend of mine wore a shirt that said 'impeach obama'.  On his university campus some people mocked him and call him racist.  A few students got agressive (he can handle his own and most people wouldn't mess with him) with him.  Several professors commented by asking 'are you trying to get attention to yourself/do you need some special attention? (they might have been joking and being serious in saying this. not sure didn't ask)'  I think only one said 'he needs more then a year, so give him a chance.'  When he went off campus to a nice restuarant (an area where they are a lot of liberals) I guess several guests complained about his shirt and the server came over and asked him if he would 'kindly remove the shirt or turn it in side out? (I would have said sure if its alright for me to go shirtless/topless) '  My friend said 'no' and the server said several guest are offended by it so he would have to leave.  My friend instead of asking for a box (I think they would have gotten him a box) he crammed as much food as possible in his mouth and walked out saying to people mouth full and all 'you're offended by my shirt! I'm offended by you!'

I wish I could have been there. Overall, he didn't notice anyone agree or say nice shirt.

Tee shirt tests are cool.

The more I learn about this case, the more I feel that Knox has been wrongly convicted.  I hope that Hillary Clinton or someone from our State Dept. voices concerns with the Italians over this flim flam of a trial. Thank goodness in America we have lots of rights that protect us against unlawful interrogations, and if we go before a jury the standard for guilt is "beyond any reasonable doubt." The evidence against Knox was all circumstantial and most of it wasn't even all that compelling.

I heard that the US media is almost entirely in defense of Knox. I'm not surprised. But, seeing how skewed the media can be here, I have to wonder about its view. I hope the girl is innocent, that would be great. I also hope the family of the dead girl finds justice. Knox behavior would be considered bad if she did it in the US, and she decided to act that way abroad. Now, one shouldn't be judged on behavior alone, but I wonder how much of this she brought onto herself, through her own actions and associations. Had she gone there to study, and acted mildly responsible, she would have been fine. If she wanted to do drugs and engage in sex parties, she basically asked to be part of that seedy side. What made her think that someone that willfully and routinely breaks the law, would care about other things, like human life? If you have a problem with alcohol, you probably shouldn't go sit in bars.

I'll say this, she's learning a little something now. Don't kids watch movies like "Midnight Express" these days? I would at least recommend the National Geographic series "Locked up Abroad".

You remember the kid that got caned in Singapore in mid 90s?  I think some people from the States feel that they are above the law of other countries. 

Also, I'm sure that she was interrogated by someone that spoke english. 

I'm sure that someone in the State Department might step in just like we did the caning kid.  After living in other countries, I've seen enough people from the States that feel that they can and should be able to do whatever. 

I agree with what nitro said in regards to how you should behave in another country.  Most countries have similar laws.

On another note, I don't think we have that great of a justice system.  Prison isn't a punishment nor an effective deterrent.

Sadly this is true. I saw plenty of this in the military. The DoD finally got wise and stopped (to a great extent) bailing these guys out. Plenty of them doing time in foreign jails now. A little common sense when abroad goes a long way. I get especially get irked when the offender expects daddy's money or influence to make their bad behavior go away.

I also heard that her Italian is excellent.

I agree. US prisons are training centers where criminals hone their crime skills and network. Whatever happened to hard labor? I feel the same people that make life comfortable for prisoners are part of the same group expediting the decline of the US. Wonder how they will feel when they push enough of these thugs threw the system and one or more moves into their neighborhood.

I don't understand why so many simply assume that the Italian justice system is incompetent.

I watched the video of herself speaking. Her Italian is excellent.

I could understand what she said which means her pronunciation must have been acceptable too.

I haven't been watching the case hardcore, but I feel that she did something wrong.  Whether that is actually partaking in the crime or having knowledge that its going to take place.

She comes from an upper-middle class family.  Even though her parents are divorced they both are still well off.  She probably thought she could get away with it or get a trial (I always want to put trail in place of trial for whatever reason, does this happen to anyone else? Not by typo though) in the States.  It all seems premeditated, so I'm sure she must (she seems intelligent and analytical) have given thought about being caught and the chances for her to get a harsh penalty were low.

It goes with my thought that I feel she felt she was above the laws of that nation.  It goes along with the growing trend in the States to feel that your entitled to something for just existing.

This will do her well.  Build her character and make her strong .   Besides, she'll become even better at speaking italian (maybe she'll stay there) and come away with a better understanding of the culture.   Heck, if she stays there maybe this can become a trend (I'm not referring to the murder part). I am referring to the: Let the rest of the world see how it feels when you got a bunch of brats feeling that they are entitled to something.

I haven't really seen US exchange students in Freiburg acting so recklessly that they would be noticable. From what I read,  Amanda Knox didn't party more than anyone I know did, than I did, minus the murder of course. Drinking, smoking a joint (yeah I know it is illegal but weren't you young once?) and throwing parties - all while well below the age of 21 - is normal here. With her "wild" behaviour she wasn't the american girl that thought she could away with everything because she was american, she was just one of the crowd.

I'll answer. Many people feel the rules don't apply since they aren't a citizen of that country, plain and simple. Go to Mexico on spring break for some startling examples. The Mexicans put up with it because it's big $$$ from the Gringo's. Few other places in the world would put up with that. Wonder if Knox ever partied there? That would be interesting to know and would personally give me some insight.

And that's really the point isn't it? Do you do the same things in a neighbors home that you would do in your own? Most reasonable people would say no. The same logic should apply abroad. I'm sure you've hear the term the "Ugly American", well it isn't a term about physical beauty. A reasonable person would/should behave better. Like it or not you are an ambassador when abroad, and people will judge the whole based on the actions of the few. I realize the "I did it because everyone else was doing it" defense is popular, probably because it mitigates personal responsibility. That doesn't make it right. I've done things in the US I'd never do in another country. I've also given my seat to old women on trains in China, while natives much younger than I, looked on oblivious. Decency isn't necessarily an American trait, but it sure is more than just an American problem.

It really depends on the neighbor..

I did it because everybody else did it sounds a bit like peer pressure, but it is just how things are. I wanted to highlight  that she wasn't sticking out like those kids in Mexico because her partying behaviour wasn't anything special or extra wild in comparison to what is the norm here. The appeal of going abroad is to learn new things, experience a different world and culture and of course you take part of what the rest do. I wouldn't really stick it on her being an American though.

Common decency is what I always use wherever I am as well. You always have to be considerate in your behaviour and take care not to annoy others without need. But that is either taught by parents while growing up or by experiencing a culture shock or both.

...and when we feel we know that neighbor better than we actually do, that's when problems arise.

Naive? Well I've see that attitude in action, so call it what you will. Arrogant. Yes it is. Since everyones sense of morals or right.wrong, further comment is pointless.

I think I tried to go onto the legal theory that not knowing something is a punishable offense is not a defense and it won't protect you. That is the reason why it is naive to assume that you can do whatever you want just because your country is powerful and/or  you have a lot of money. But germany usually doesn't attract such crowds.. I think the exchange students here find it pretty wild that they can drink a beer without a problem in a park or down by the riverside in summer, that going topless or nude for tanning  at the local ponds is no big deal (who cares, really?) and things like that. I wonder what would happen if I tried that in the US.. lol

Sorry, there was that major storm that rolled through here. Nitro, answered this pretty well. 

My thing with these two post are this: there are consequences to our actions, whether positive or negative.  You can say it was alright for her to party or get high BUT she chose to do that.  Since that was HER CHOICE she should be held accountable to her actions that happen afterwards.

You comment on tanning naked at the pond (who cares really?) here is the slope that you're on.  I should be allowed to walk around naked.  If I can do it by the pond why not else where?  I am not shy about my masculinity.  I'm not one of those guys who is uncomfortable about changing in front of other men (no I'm not a man who drops his soap and expects something in the air express mail if you know what I mean). I would walk around a city naked because again I am firm in who I am and not ashamed BUT I feel there are appropriate and decent levels.

Something else is that I wasn't saying that "Americans" are wild party animals.  If you were offended that I would think that over germans, fine.  You Germans are wild party animals.  There are consequences to our actions whether that is getting inebriated or walking naked to the pond.  These consequences whether positive or negative may have an affect (a positive or negative) on other people whether we realize or not.

Its seems that your attitude is that we should be able to do just about whatever we want.  In society that has an anything goes attitude it will eat itself.

For this you need not look beyond the Romans or the Greeks.

You misunderstood me.. I was not saying that we should be able to do whatever we wanted, anywhere we wanted to do it without any consequences. If a place has different norms or standards of what acceptable behaviour is like, it is alright to act within those new norms, even if you are from a place that has different ones. That's the fun of traveling and experiencing a new culture. Living with the consequences, the good and bad, goes without saying of course.

But it is not an excuse for awful behaviour. I don't think Amanda Knox was this wild party animal that behaved in such an unexcuseable manner that she shamed every American. What she allegedly did (her crime) had not that much to do with "normal" italian (or german) partying, and I am in no way intending to excuse or trivialise sexually abusing and murdering of roommates.

PS: A lot of Germans in particular are fervent believers in free body culture - the nudist movement, going back to nature and all that. It is more pronounced in the east, but seeing someone skinny dipping at a local lake in summer time is normal here. Not everybody does it, but nobody is offended by those that do. If a person feels uncomfortable by that they just have to go to a place that is less frequented by nudists, there isn't really a strict rule in public beaches. I don't know what would happen if you walked around nude in the city - probably nothing much, but you'd get stared at alot. Freiburg had a nude jogger for a while, a man who always went running naked until people made complaints so often that the county and city officials had to step it. I think they made him wear a string tanga.. I don't really know if that was an improvement though. I've never actually seen the guy run, but I don't go jogging.

Switzerland has even passed a law (in one district) that bans nudist hiking. Apparently, that is a favourite pastime for some for reasons that escape me.

As for your walking around nude in a place that is ok with it, then it would be OK. It all depends on your environment, on what the social etiquette allows.

Good ole roman republic and its descent into amorality. I trying to remember the roman senator who always lamented that fact, was it Cato the elder? Or was he the one going on about  "ceterum censeo carthaginem delendam esse"?